Survey Tomorrow

[Fathom]

After 20 years of sailing on other people's boats, and 3 summers of teaching sailing in college using the school's dinghies, I've saved/sold enough to finally afford my own boat. (Albeit just barely.) The survey for which, a '78 H30, is tomorrow.

I've lurked around here for a while and read about the most common issues, but it seems quite a few of her trouble spots have been worked on in the past.

- Complete engine rebuild 2002
- Replaced mast compression post 2002
- Osmotic blisters were ground out, refiberglassed and faired, then epoxy barrier coated 2005
- Rudder glassed and faired 2005
- Awlgrip hull and deck 2005
- New mast wiring 2005
- Custom stainless steel rudder to skeg boot and stem head extension 2005
- Replaced forward lower shrouds 2006
- New forestay 2008
- Jabsco Y-Valve 2013

So my question to you guys and gals is, once I get the report from the surveyor, what sorts of things should be of particular concern?

Thanks for your help.

 

[azguy]

So my question to you guys and gals is, once I get the report from the surveyor, what sorts of things should be of particular concern?

Thanks for your help.

Things you can't fix yourself as you already stated you budget is being pressed. You didn't mention sails, running rigging and the rest of the standing rigging besides the one replaced shroud.

If all the items that have been addressed 10 years ago are in good shape you can whittle away at the smaller projects over the coming years.

If you are going to be there, take some pictures for us..

Good luck !

 

[Ian McGain]

my number one concern would be to poke a screwdriver into wood holding the center chainplate holding the center standing rigging from the cabin. If this is rotted from water penetration, you could lose your mast in a strong blow.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

So my question to you guys and gals is, once I get the report from the surveyor, what sorts of things should be of particular concern?

Thanks for your help.

It would be of more value to you if you first post a summary of the survey recommendations for comment rather than getting a bunch of guesses what might be wrong.

 

[Fathom]

@AZguy, Some pics will absolutely be up after tomorrow. =]
@Ian I'll keep a close eye on that, thanks.

It would be of more value to you if you first post a summary of the survey recommendations for comment rather than getting a bunch of guesses what might be wrong.

Fair enough. Guess what I was looking for, before I go into the survey itself, was "what sorts of things would cause you to run in the opposite direction if they were listed on a survey report?"

 

[Jackdaw]

It would be of more value to you if you first post a summary of the survey recommendations for comment rather than getting a bunch of guesses what might be wrong.

This.

Plus two things.

1) Resist the urge to respond/talk to the seller right after reading the report. Allow time to do #2.

2) Let the surveyer know that you plan to talk to him sometime after you get the report, with detailed questions for him, and you expect detailed answers.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Although it may not be practical for you but if you can be present during all or part of the survey, you can learn a lot more than just reading the report. Obviously, that is the best time to get your questions answered as well.

 

[Fathom]

Agreed. Thanks Don.

And yes, I'm absolutely going to be there for the duration of the survey. This is (obviously), the first one I've ever been involved with though.

Forewarned is forearmed, and all that...

 

[kito]

So my question to you guys and gals is, once I get the report from the surveyor, what sorts of things should be of particular concern?

Thanks for your help.

Kind of depends on your DIY capabilities and the price it's selling for. My 79 H30 has a rotten main port bulkhead that I am replacing myself. I would be very surprised if the surveyor doesn't find some rot in the bulkheads, especially on the main (center). I mentioned in another post how Hunter sandwiched the bulkheads in thick heavy fiberglass mat but they didn't cover the top with anything. The water drips into the plywood and runs down rotting the bottom of the bulkhead. If the surveyor just pokes around where the chainplate attaches, he may think it's solid because of the fiberglass. The bottom 18" on mine was in horrible shape.

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Kito,
I addition to the previous responses, I would like to suggest that you go to Amazon this evening and download "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey. I had a copy of this with me when I did my "pre" inspection of my first sailboat -- a Cherubini Hunter 36 that I still own and still very much cherish ---before the actual professional survey. I learned a tremendous amount about sailboats from this little book. And later, the professional surveyor found only a few items that I had not already identified. And he didn't flag a couple of items that I had noted. It's only $13.

 

[Fathom]

@kito The boat is selling for $13k. And, full disclosure, my DIY kung fu is pretty weak when it comes to boats. (If a computer needs work, however, I'm your man.) I'll be sure to ask about any bulkhead rot. Thanks.

@rardi I'll definitely check that out. Thanks. =]

 

[Dunlookin]

Prior to My Survey...

I followed Casey's advice. There were a number of things I found that the surveyer missed. There were only two items he found that I missed.

So much of what you are looking at is common sense. Open lickers, empty "stuff", look everywhere. Test everything. This is your one big (LAST) chance to get worked completed at the current owners expense...or get a price reduction if it comes out of your pocket.

My biggest single concern was the gate valves still on the boat. The owner had them all replaced prior to sail. I had a concern that the fuel tank was empty. I should have listened to that voice. After I bought the boat, and filled the tank...yes, it leaked. When it did it was at the marina..add $ 1000.00 to the bill for clean-up when the bilge pump came on and pumped the leaking fuel overboard.

Another issue was the &*^%$#ss job the PO did when he fixed anything. Cheap parts, wrong parts, too few parts. Don't get me started about the bow light that was wired using brown 110V wire for the 12V run and speaker wire for another connection to an added light.

I would look closely at the gate valves and the fuel tank. You can DIY both, but it is a pain in the %^&&.

Don't forget the primary function of the survey is for insurance purposes. If the boat does not meet thier demanding (and ever-changing) requirements you will not be insured. No insurance...no marina will take you.

 

[Fathom]

So, I just got back from the survey and I have to say that you guys are pretty damn good. You all hit on the things that were questionable, sight unseen.

The surveyor is doing the final write-up right now and says he'll have it over to me tonight. The things I remember are:

1. The moisture meter/hammer test did indeed find some water along the center chainplates and forward toward the chain locker. The surveyor actually asked if we wanted to stop the survey right there and skip the haul-out, but I said we could proceed. Later, he said there was little chance of the mast toppling over or anything horrible happening (there was no "squishiness" in the deck), but that I should definitely get it fixed as it will only get worse. Said it would run anywhere between $1,500 - $3k. "The problem will come back on the day you decide to sell the boat."

2. Some of the wiring was done incorrectly, and apparently with wires/connectors that aren't "up to code." I guess the PO used a couple of those plastic wire connectors in a few places with no electrical tape?

3. The propane to the stove isn't run properly. He said it's possible that it could leak, perhaps even into the engine compartment.

4. The last 8" of hose from the holding tank is in rough shape and will need to be replaced.

5. There's a small fuel leak in the engine. Strangely, I seemed much more concerned about this one than he did.

6. I can't remember what it's called, but there was some scarring on the propeller shaft, above the two "egg-like" things that are made of zinc? (We actually replaced those while it was out of the water.)

The hull appears to be in "very good" shape, and the sails, running rigging and belowdecks all look fantastic.

@dunlookin That's funny, on my way off the boat I noticed there was less than 1/4 tank of diesel on the gauge... I guess I can still ask them to fill the tank up and see if it leaks before I sign?

As things stand now, I'm still leaning toward a "yes" if I can get the boat insured and therefore into a marina. I did expect there to be some work necessary, particularly given the low price.
That said, you guys are much more knowledgeable about this than I am. Should I be backing away slowly?

Thanks again to all of you.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Your underwriter will likely Insist on repairs of every item, particularly the propane and fuel leaks, wiring and the deck core repair.
Even if you can get insurance, the deck core issue is a crap shoot, I.e., it may be as minor as your surveyor indicates or it could be worse - not until the repair is done will you know the real extent. The mast might not fall down but the boat could end up being a liability more than an asset, regardless of how little it costs to buy.
Too many boats for sale and too few buyers - do you really want to risk it?

 

[H30Gary]

My marina only required liability insurance. Was able to get that without a survey. Maybe your area is different.

 

[kito]

Well I guess we know that $13k is way too high for that boat. $13k may go for a totally restored boat with newer sails, updated electronics etc. You didn't mention if it had newer sails, ac, bimini, dodger, roller furling, vhf and autopilot....all big ticket items. Finding moisture in the center bulkhead would not be a deal breaker for me though. I have totally gutted my H30 and seen damp plywood that was still in great shape. Hunter used (what I think) is mahogany marine grade plywood in all their bulkheads. Fix the leak and let it dry out (if not rotted like mine was). But on the other hand, it seems that all the cost on this boat will involve mostly labor and your not a DIY'er then I believe I would look elsewhere.

 

[Fathom]

Ah, guess I should've included that part. There's both a working and storm jib (both new in 2008) and a genoa on the roller furler that's from 2009. The surveyor actually commented a couple times about how great the sails looked. There's a good looking bimini, a Garmin chartplotter at the helm, and a VHF.

His recommendations/deficiencies were:

- Light fuel leakage at the auxiliary engine mounted secondary filter.
- The propeller shaft had localized moderate pitting.
- Single strand 110VAC wiring was located at some locations, i.e. outlets, etc. & a 110VAC wire was spliced w/ wire nuts inside the Salon forward hanging locker.
- There was light crazing &/or fracturing of both upper standing rigging swage fittings.
- The propane system was improperly installed in the cockpit starboard locker, & not in compliance with recommended standards. (Note: System should not be used until serviced)
- The bow running navigation lights were inoperative.

Under the moderate/deferred maintenance and repair he had the chainplate issue:

There was lower main deck delamination at some locations:
Port = Percussion delamination: between chain plates, Moisture meter: "wet" between forward lower & trailing end of fixed portlight,.
Starboard = Percussion delamination: between main chain plate & chain locker, Moisture meter: "wet" between aft lower chain plate & chain locker.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to give me your opinions. I'm kind of on an island as far as knowledgeable boat people to talk to...

 

[H30Gary]

Just for perspective, I paid $8900 for my 1980 a couple of years ago. It was in good shape. Didn't have much in the way of electronics and no extra sails (just main and roller furling genoa). But, no issues with soft spots or rot. I did have to later replace the compression post support, but did this myself for not many $$. I do worry about the engine - runs fine now, but who knows how much longer. So your's having a recent rebuild is a big plus.