Survey Botch?

[Jackdaw]

I have to believe that 99% of surveyors have never set foot on a water ballasted sailboat. Think about it.

80% of their work is powerboats. Of the sailboats they they do see, I guess 90% are over 26 feet. Most people don't have sub 26-footers surveyed. Of the sub-26ers maybe 10% are water ballasted? I'm guessing he never expected it.

That he didn't FIND it is another issue. But I'd talk to him and discuss that fact that it is a major system and needs to be looked at. Hopefully he'll agree and come back.

 

[Joe A]

How about the fact that he is supposed to have inspected the hull and yet missed a big hole where the tank fills from. Mine is about 2 inches in diameter or even bigger. Even if the inlet port was closed he should have wondered what it was.

 

[dparilla]

SAMS requires surveyors to do pre-inspection research, and provides some very good resources for their surveyors. Of course, there is no way to guarantee that the individual has done good research...would you blindly trust Google? If you have a hull ID number, you can get the exact model and year, and with that info determine if he overlooked the system.

 

[rgranger]

Dito on Crazy Dave....

 

[Skipper]

I think even the best if us make silly mistakes.

When I had the most recent boat surveyed, the surveyor was knowledgable, thorough, and professional. It was only when I read the details of the survey that I noticed:

He said there was no emergency tiller, yet the giant metal L-shaped thing was laying draped across the rudder box in the lazerette.

He mis-named the mfg of multiple pieces of equip.

He said there was no hour meter, yet it's plainly visible in a separate cabinet inside the cabin next to the knotlog/instrument control panel.

It may be that missing an entire ballast system might be different, but I even had a service manager from a highly reputable yard inspect my motor in the slip awhile back in Annapolis, and after he ran it he closed one of the cockpit drain seacocks instead of the raw water intake next to it. I found it like that when I returned to the boat.

I wouldn't worry about it. Any glaring issues regarding the integrity of your boat would likely have surfaced during survey. If he displayed blatant incompetence or deer eyes, you would have noticed.

 

[SailorTom]

Just remember there is a bell curve in surveyor aptitude just like the general population. But my experience has always been with the lowest quintile

 

[jwilcoxon78]

How about the fact that he is supposed to have inspected the hull and yet missed a big hole where the tank fills from. Mine is about 2 inches in diameter or even bigger. Even if the inlet port was closed he should have wondered what it was.

Joe A I was just about to ask the same thing.

 

[jwilcoxon78]

Drhoppy keep us posted on the purchase process. Ditto on Crazy Dave as well. A wealth of knowledge. We've had our '05 260 for a year now so certainly float any questions you might have my way as well.

 

[shanker]

Same model and year as mine. As far as I know all 260's are water ballast and swing keel. Some 270's I believe had fixed keels. At the bottom step, lift the top and you will see the vent, plug and valve for the water ballast tank. The fill is a 2 inch hole at the bottom center of the hull. How the heck did he not see that? I'd be demanding they send someone who is a little more knowledgeable with water ballast boats. What about the rigging? Where about are you?

 

[Henry Scurlock]

The Hunter water ballast system is pretty much out of sight. The controls are hidden in the step and the valve opening is above the centerboard and not easily seen. I would have thought the surveyor might have taken a look at documents on this model prior to their inspection, but it doesn't seem that way. The valves are not really water tight so it will be hard to evaluate with the boat on the trailer and out of the water.

 

[Benny17441]

There were some H260 fitted with Wheel steering, inboard diesels and a ballasted fixed keel. If the boat is in the water and not sitting on a trailer it could be one of those. See if the controls for the operation of a water ballast are present and that should clear the issue.

 

[Sailvayu]

I cannot comment too much on this boat or surveyor but will try to clear up a couple of miss statements in this thread.

First Boat US does not certify surveyors. Their listing is a paid service and pretty much any surveyor willing to fork over the 50 bucks a year can get listed.

Second SAMS does not require surveyors to do pre research on a vessel and does not provide any information on any boats. That is solely up to the individual surveyor.

As for this case if the surveyor did miss a water ballast system that is a serious omission as ballast is an important safety item.

When you hire a surveyor talk to them first, get to know them a bit and find out if they have experience with the type of boat you are looking at. Do not shop price alone. Half the calls I get the first question is "how much?" There are good surveyors and bad ones just like mechanics or any other trade. When hiring a surveyor ask questions and find out their back ground, that is really the best way to find out if they can provide what you need.

 

[Sailvayu]

Dan you are correct SAMS recommends pre research, but they do not "require" it so it is up to the surveyor. The link you provided is to a link page for outside sources SAMS does not provide the data. Not trying to nit pick but just want to make sure folks understand in order to help them know how to pick a good surveyor. One cannot assume being a member of any organization is a guarantee of quality work. It helps and is a start but the buyer needs to ask questions before hiring. And I agree 100% the surveyor does need to do his/her homework. Thanks for adding that

 

[dparilla]

http://www.marinesurvey.org/members-corner/useful-links.html

Dan you are correct SAMS recommends pre research, but they do not "require" it so it is up to the surveyor. The link you provided is to a link page for outside sources SAMS does not provide the data. Not trying to nit pick but just want to make sure folks understand in order to help them know how to pick a good surveyor. One cannot assume being a member of any organization is a guarantee of quality work. It helps and is a start but the buyer needs to ask questions before hiring. And I agree 100% the surveyor does need to do his/her homework. Thanks for adding that

Totally agree. Thanks....Somehow my previous post disappeared, so I reposted the link. For those who missed it, I had stated that during my apprenticeship, I was told to always do the pre-research, or else you cannot properly inspect or value the boat. My computer hates me this morning.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

I sailed a 260 for a number of years. It sounds like the surveyor had no idea what he was looking at, not unusual in my experience.

There have not been any problems with the water tanks on these boats unless they were not drained and were frozen. They can be checked with air pressure but not the type of thing that would be included in most surveys. Having the boat in the water and ballast full would tell you if it is leaking into the cabin, hauling it out on the trailer with the ballast full would tell you if it leaks from the hull.

You mentioned having the boat thaw out, so I'm assuming you are in a cold area. You should be getting a discounted price buying at this time of year because you can't do a sea trial, see the sails in use, see the mast up, check the ballast tank, and there are probably no other buyers looking at it. If the boat is in good condition and the seller seems to know what he is doing I think the risk is low there is a tank problem. Worst case would probably be it won't be as good a buy as expected if it needs sails, or a ballast tank repaired. Probably there is a better chance it needs the sails. Also she probably needs the line that pulls the center board up replaced if it has never been done.

These are a great boat, you will enjoy her I'm sure.

I have an album of mods I did to my 260 under my profile here on Hunterowners, have a look at what I did.

Regards, Bob

(Sailing our H260, Windsong in FL Keys on au-toe-pilot)