suggestions for downsizing?
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Having taught docking at a local sailing academy, I often recommend and demonstrate the use of spring lines in docking and undocking. Yet since this thread seems to focus on single-handling, I'd be curious to know how a solo sailor would successfully maneuver his/her boat into/out of a slip using a spring line, particularly a mid-ship spring line. In my view, like doing the tango, it takes two....
Warren, I don't understand, because I do it all the time
singlehanded. I do it in our slip. I do it at the fuel dock. I do it at new-to-me slips. In the referenced posts, I do state limitations, like dock rings (yeck!!), PNW wooden docks, short docks, etc. In fact, with adequate planning, my next-door-dock-neighbor could singlehand his unweildly Mason 33 full keel back out of his slip because they use a spring line to turn to port. It's only because they always go out with no less than three people that the helmsman doesn't do it.
You wrote: "...curious to know how a solo sailor would successfully maneuver his/her boat into/out of a slip using a spring line..." I thought the step-by-step instructions were pretty clear, as were Klang's. Could you be more specific?
singlehanded. I do it in our slip. I do it at the fuel dock. I do it at new-to-me slips. In the referenced posts, I do state limitations, like dock rings (yeck!!), PNW wooden docks, short docks, etc. In fact, with adequate planning, my next-door-dock-neighbor could singlehand his unweildly Mason 33 full keel back out of his slip because they use a spring line to turn to port. It's only because they always go out with no less than three people that the helmsman doesn't do it.
You wrote: "...curious to know how a solo sailor would successfully maneuver his/her boat into/out of a slip using a spring line..." I thought the step-by-step instructions were pretty clear, as were Klang's. Could you be more specific?
Spring Lines and Warping Around on Pilings
Stu, and others,
I hear of people docking in high winds, using spring lines successfully to pull the boat along side the pier, and warping around on pilings in narrow fairways or high winds. Most of the transient docks that I have seen do not have bumper strips or padding on pier edges or pilings, and often even have nails, bolts, or other things that can damage the boat. Additionally, at my marina, when the winds get to 25Kts., there is lots of chop and the boats are bouncing up and down, so if they come into contact with the pier or pilings, there is going to be real damage to the boat. Most slips in this area seem to be relatively narrow, so a single hander can preset fenders on the deck, but can't kick them over and still get between the pilings, and it takes only a few seconds to get damage before a single hander can go forward to get the fenders over once the spring line has pulled the boat to the pier. (Actually, here when it gets to 25 kts., you don't see very many boats going out, so I don't understand how people cope without damage in areas were 25 kts. and higher are routine sailing).
It would be very helpful to hear comments and to understand the techniques to avoid damage to the boat with the suggested docking methods.
Stu, and others,
I hear of people docking in high winds, using spring lines successfully to pull the boat along side the pier, and warping around on pilings in narrow fairways or high winds. Most of the transient docks that I have seen do not have bumper strips or padding on pier edges or pilings, and often even have nails, bolts, or other things that can damage the boat. Additionally, at my marina, when the winds get to 25Kts., there is lots of chop and the boats are bouncing up and down, so if they come into contact with the pier or pilings, there is going to be real damage to the boat. Most slips in this area seem to be relatively narrow, so a single hander can preset fenders on the deck, but can't kick them over and still get between the pilings, and it takes only a few seconds to get damage before a single hander can go forward to get the fenders over once the spring line has pulled the boat to the pier. (Actually, here when it gets to 25 kts., you don't see very many boats going out, so I don't understand how people cope without damage in areas were 25 kts. and higher are routine sailing).
It would be very helpful to hear comments and to understand the techniques to avoid damage to the boat with the suggested docking methods.
Stu, and others:
To me, successfully getting into, or out of a slip, depends a lot on knowing and being able to control your boat's characteristics under power in forward or reverse, the space and configuration of the fairway, slip, or face pier you are dealing with, and the impact of wind and current on your boat. Perhaps a recent example would help. I was teaching a couple of inexperienced sailors to get into and out of their very tight slip. The boat (their first!) was a mid-80's 36-ft S-2 that probably displaced 16,000lbs and was beamy. A strongish breeze (>12 kts) was on the beam of their boat that was stern-in. They needed to turn to port to leave the slip and the fairway was only about 40-ft wide. Perfect situation to use a mid-ship spring on the port piling. I set the mid-ship spring around the piling and gave the bitter end to the owner's wife while the owner steered out of the slip. I instructed her to pull on the line as soon as the owner shouted that the stern was clearing the piling. She had a hard time being able to pivot the boat around the piling as the wind took the bow the other way (it always does). If the the owner were alone, he could have tied the bitter end to a port stern cleat, yet I think the owner at the helm would have a hard time both steering, pivoting the boat, and then letting the spring go in order to pull it in quickly as he steered out of the slip. Sure, a sailor with a lot of experience would find a way to do these multiple tasks simultaneously, but you'd have to have a lot of confidence, favorable weather, and gelcoat repair at the ready to do so.
On a boat like mine, which only displaces about 7200 lbs and which I sail alone alot, I tend to use and recommend premeasured lines, that stay on the aft pilings, that have loops tied in the ends. I can pivot the boat out the slip in an unfavorable wind with the windward line, and all I need do is grab one or the other, drop it over a winch and the boat stops in the right place when coming back in.
Another technique that is worth considering is what I call "Going With the Flow." If you find that the boat is being pushed by wind or current the opposite way that you want, let the boat go that way (as long as it is safe). People often get into a jam by trying to correct the boat's direction at this point. Once clear of the slip, either back all the way out of the fairway, or do a "pivot turn" to turn the boat 180-deg in the direction you desire.
Lots of practice, on a calm day, and with crew standing by if needed, is the real solution here. Whatever works, works.
To me, successfully getting into, or out of a slip, depends a lot on knowing and being able to control your boat's characteristics under power in forward or reverse, the space and configuration of the fairway, slip, or face pier you are dealing with, and the impact of wind and current on your boat. Perhaps a recent example would help. I was teaching a couple of inexperienced sailors to get into and out of their very tight slip. The boat (their first!) was a mid-80's 36-ft S-2 that probably displaced 16,000lbs and was beamy. A strongish breeze (>12 kts) was on the beam of their boat that was stern-in. They needed to turn to port to leave the slip and the fairway was only about 40-ft wide. Perfect situation to use a mid-ship spring on the port piling. I set the mid-ship spring around the piling and gave the bitter end to the owner's wife while the owner steered out of the slip. I instructed her to pull on the line as soon as the owner shouted that the stern was clearing the piling. She had a hard time being able to pivot the boat around the piling as the wind took the bow the other way (it always does). If the the owner were alone, he could have tied the bitter end to a port stern cleat, yet I think the owner at the helm would have a hard time both steering, pivoting the boat, and then letting the spring go in order to pull it in quickly as he steered out of the slip. Sure, a sailor with a lot of experience would find a way to do these multiple tasks simultaneously, but you'd have to have a lot of confidence, favorable weather, and gelcoat repair at the ready to do so.
On a boat like mine, which only displaces about 7200 lbs and which I sail alone alot, I tend to use and recommend premeasured lines, that stay on the aft pilings, that have loops tied in the ends. I can pivot the boat out the slip in an unfavorable wind with the windward line, and all I need do is grab one or the other, drop it over a winch and the boat stops in the right place when coming back in.
Another technique that is worth considering is what I call "Going With the Flow." If you find that the boat is being pushed by wind or current the opposite way that you want, let the boat go that way (as long as it is safe). People often get into a jam by trying to correct the boat's direction at this point. Once clear of the slip, either back all the way out of the fairway, or do a "pivot turn" to turn the boat 180-deg in the direction you desire.
Lots of practice, on a calm day, and with crew standing by if needed, is the real solution here. Whatever works, works.
Warren, we really do agree
You wrote: "...Sure, a sailor with a lot of experience would find a way to do these multiple tasks simultaneously, but you'd have to have a lot of confidence,..."
How does one get confidence?
How does one get experience?
From practice, practice, practice. I believe one of my earlier links to my discussions of midships spring lines included the suggestion to take a FULL DAY to practice docking, whether in your own slip or on a side tie. If you boat half the year and never do this practicing, and you go out every weekend, you only get 24 opportunities to dock, and those are NOT repetitious, but isolated, can be bad, leaving a poor taste of failure instead of success (6 months X 4 weekends per month = 24 to 30).
That's why people FEAR docking, because they're too "limited" in their thought process to practice it. They put their entire investment in a $5K to over $100K boat at risk because they can't afford four to eight hours of practice. How'd they ever get through school?
Also, Warren, you mentioned leaving the dock using spring lines in both your examples. I understand that as ONE of the two uses of them, the other being coming IN to a dock as I've described.
Leaving is a LOT easier because you can set up the lines from and at the dock. What could be easier? Coming in requires a bit of "lassoing" the dock, much harder. Randy "Nautiduck's" Dock-O-Matic is a great idea. Google it or search here or on the C25 Association website. It is, essentially, a pre-cut length of line with loops at both ends, sized for your boat, to more easily "catch" a dock cleat by using garden hose on the dock end loop to keep it open and easy to deploy.
So, Warren, I applaud you teaching newcomers to our sport, and look forward to those newcomers becoming experienced and confident sailors because they are out there practicing and getting better at everything they do.
You wrote: "...Sure, a sailor with a lot of experience would find a way to do these multiple tasks simultaneously, but you'd have to have a lot of confidence,..."
How does one get confidence?
How does one get experience?
From practice, practice, practice. I believe one of my earlier links to my discussions of midships spring lines included the suggestion to take a FULL DAY to practice docking, whether in your own slip or on a side tie. If you boat half the year and never do this practicing, and you go out every weekend, you only get 24 opportunities to dock, and those are NOT repetitious, but isolated, can be bad, leaving a poor taste of failure instead of success (6 months X 4 weekends per month = 24 to 30).
That's why people FEAR docking, because they're too "limited" in their thought process to practice it. They put their entire investment in a $5K to over $100K boat at risk because they can't afford four to eight hours of practice. How'd they ever get through school?
Also, Warren, you mentioned leaving the dock using spring lines in both your examples. I understand that as ONE of the two uses of them, the other being coming IN to a dock as I've described.
Leaving is a LOT easier because you can set up the lines from and at the dock. What could be easier? Coming in requires a bit of "lassoing" the dock, much harder. Randy "Nautiduck's" Dock-O-Matic is a great idea. Google it or search here or on the C25 Association website. It is, essentially, a pre-cut length of line with loops at both ends, sized for your boat, to more easily "catch" a dock cleat by using garden hose on the dock end loop to keep it open and easy to deploy.
So, Warren, I applaud you teaching newcomers to our sport, and look forward to those newcomers becoming experienced and confident sailors because they are out there practicing and getting better at everything they do.
Here's my comment on a untenable question
Why would anyone?
I don't care how windy (or not) it is, I wouldn't bring my boat anywhere near these MONSTERS.
Why would anyone?
Sounds like you already have your boat
If you can't single hand a 30' boat then going to a smaller boat will not solve your problem. It may, in fact, cause more problems since you clearly need more than the average bear's headroom......
Not to be tooting my own horn but I single hand my Hunter 40.5 all the time. High winds are not really an issue as there are only three ways to dock; bow to wind, stern to wind, port or starboard to wind. Once you understand that the wind will only blow you into, out of or across the slip there are really not that many issues. I find that tying the upwind lines first to be the best course of action. Then the boat is just bumping into the dock not crashing into it. There are lots of books on the subject. For the record I don't use fenders much as I only have a finger pier and two pilings at the open end of my slip.
If you plan on getting blown into/out of/across the slip you can figure out which line you absolutely need to get secure first. The boat will then just "hang" on it and you can get the next most "upwind" line on which will almost always get the boat "off the pier" The rest of the lines can be done leisurely.
If you need additional specific advice the give us a scenario so we can discuss it.
For instance, docking in 25 kts of wind trying to blow you into the slip. The wind will be trying to blow me across the fairway so I stay towards the middle and don't hug my slips side of the fairway. Once I reach the slip before mine (at 1-1.5 knots speed) I turn up wind presenting my bow to the wind and stern to the slip. Turn the helm hard the other way and give a blast of reverse to kill your forward speed. Prop walk enters in here so anticipate it. If turning to starboard it will help make the turn if turning to port it will make it more difficult to complete the turn. Once lined up on the slip keep it in reverse at idle. Grab the upwind spring line as you go in and secure it at the correct length. (I have all my lines trimmed at the piling and only have loops on the boat end so this is blindingly easy when single handing) Once you have that secured, and the engine thrown into neutral the boat will "stream" down wind and all you have to do is grab then next most upwind line. that would be the one that is opposite the dock/pier/bollard that the boat is bumping into. Once you secure that line the boat is secure and you can relax.
If you can't single hand a 30' boat then going to a smaller boat will not solve your problem. It may, in fact, cause more problems since you clearly need more than the average bear's headroom......
Not to be tooting my own horn but I single hand my Hunter 40.5 all the time. High winds are not really an issue as there are only three ways to dock; bow to wind, stern to wind, port or starboard to wind. Once you understand that the wind will only blow you into, out of or across the slip there are really not that many issues. I find that tying the upwind lines first to be the best course of action. Then the boat is just bumping into the dock not crashing into it. There are lots of books on the subject. For the record I don't use fenders much as I only have a finger pier and two pilings at the open end of my slip.
If you plan on getting blown into/out of/across the slip you can figure out which line you absolutely need to get secure first. The boat will then just "hang" on it and you can get the next most "upwind" line on which will almost always get the boat "off the pier" The rest of the lines can be done leisurely.
If you need additional specific advice the give us a scenario so we can discuss it.
For instance, docking in 25 kts of wind trying to blow you into the slip. The wind will be trying to blow me across the fairway so I stay towards the middle and don't hug my slips side of the fairway. Once I reach the slip before mine (at 1-1.5 knots speed) I turn up wind presenting my bow to the wind and stern to the slip. Turn the helm hard the other way and give a blast of reverse to kill your forward speed. Prop walk enters in here so anticipate it. If turning to starboard it will help make the turn if turning to port it will make it more difficult to complete the turn. Once lined up on the slip keep it in reverse at idle. Grab the upwind spring line as you go in and secure it at the correct length. (I have all my lines trimmed at the piling and only have loops on the boat end so this is blindingly easy when single handing) Once you have that secured, and the engine thrown into neutral the boat will "stream" down wind and all you have to do is grab then next most upwind line. that would be the one that is opposite the dock/pier/bollard that the boat is bumping into. Once you secure that line the boat is secure and you can relax.
Rough Edges of Finger Piers
Generally, you are likely to run into a nail or bolt sticking out on older docks. In this area, most docks are fixed piling types with a short finger pier approximately 30-40 % the length of the slip. Typically, the finger pier deck is a series of 2" x 6" planks crossways and extending past the finger pier stringers. So using a spring line to pull the boat up against the finger pier creates two problems for the singlehander. If he springs in too early, he'll strike the finger pier on the end, and if he is more careful, the bow will come up against the finger pier, but since the stern is not resting against anything (assuming the stern is inside the outer piling). Typically the slip is about 14' wide for boats that often have 12'+ wide beams...thus putting fenders over before you enter the slip is not practical if you don't want to get hung up on the outer pilings. So my question about damage when contacting the pier seems unanswered in reguards to using the spring line to snug the boat up against the pier. (In my home slip, I have vinyl bumper strips on the edge of the finger pier and my pilings are free of nails or other hard things where the boat will strike. And I have my own technique for docking in the home slip (I have a tight buddy line on the sides of my slip, I back into the slip, and clip on a bow line tended via a snatch block back to the cockpit and clip in a short stern line onto the windward buddy line. The stern of the boat slides along the buddy line and when done properly, the boat never contacts a hard surface. For singlehanding with transient slips, instead of carabiner clips, I would drop bow line with loop in end and a long spring line (with loop over piling) between outer windward piling to stern cleat, both tended from the helm. Then, use engine against the spring line to keep alighment in the slip. Not sure how this would work in the high wind conditions (even backing could be a problem), but in lesser winds, one can dock the boat without contacting hard surfaces (assuming you can get the boat between the outer pilings before the cross wind makes you drift the 1-2 ft. down on leeward piling (in which case stop, until the lines above are out and tightened).
But most marinas here don't have edge guards on finger piers and the raw edge is going to contact the hull before fenders can be deployed when singlehanding. In the SF area and other high wind areas, do you typically have vinyl edge guards on transient piers? If not, how do you avoid damage, especially in cross winds?
Stu,
Generally, you are likely to run into a nail or bolt sticking out on older docks. In this area, most docks are fixed piling types with a short finger pier approximately 30-40 % the length of the slip. Typically, the finger pier deck is a series of 2" x 6" planks crossways and extending past the finger pier stringers. So using a spring line to pull the boat up against the finger pier creates two problems for the singlehander. If he springs in too early, he'll strike the finger pier on the end, and if he is more careful, the bow will come up against the finger pier, but since the stern is not resting against anything (assuming the stern is inside the outer piling). Typically the slip is about 14' wide for boats that often have 12'+ wide beams...thus putting fenders over before you enter the slip is not practical if you don't want to get hung up on the outer pilings. So my question about damage when contacting the pier seems unanswered in reguards to using the spring line to snug the boat up against the pier. (In my home slip, I have vinyl bumper strips on the edge of the finger pier and my pilings are free of nails or other hard things where the boat will strike. And I have my own technique for docking in the home slip (I have a tight buddy line on the sides of my slip, I back into the slip, and clip on a bow line tended via a snatch block back to the cockpit and clip in a short stern line onto the windward buddy line. The stern of the boat slides along the buddy line and when done properly, the boat never contacts a hard surface. For singlehanding with transient slips, instead of carabiner clips, I would drop bow line with loop in end and a long spring line (with loop over piling) between outer windward piling to stern cleat, both tended from the helm. Then, use engine against the spring line to keep alighment in the slip. Not sure how this would work in the high wind conditions (even backing could be a problem), but in lesser winds, one can dock the boat without contacting hard surfaces (assuming you can get the boat between the outer pilings before the cross wind makes you drift the 1-2 ft. down on leeward piling (in which case stop, until the lines above are out and tightened).
But most marinas here don't have edge guards on finger piers and the raw edge is going to contact the hull before fenders can be deployed when singlehanding. In the SF area and other high wind areas, do you typically have vinyl edge guards on transient piers? If not, how do you avoid damage, especially in cross winds?
NC
I understand that "slips" have different meanings for different areas of the country. I have explained that some docks do not lend themselves to the midships spring line technique. It is clear that certain slip arrangements have a large bearing on what and HOW you tie your boat up.
I don't pretend to be an expert on those unusual slips and well remember Ed Schenk's issues when he first moved his boat.
All I can explain is what works for me, and is reflective of Captain Klang's booklet, for where and when it can work.
Everyone has a different bag of tricks and tools at his disposal.
It is clear that this technique will not work for the "dock" in your description. And you will have to employ your own "bag of tricks" to make it work for you.
But what might not work at your slip, it may well work at guest docks, fuel docks and restaurant docks.
I understand that "slips" have different meanings for different areas of the country. I have explained that some docks do not lend themselves to the midships spring line technique. It is clear that certain slip arrangements have a large bearing on what and HOW you tie your boat up.
I don't pretend to be an expert on those unusual slips and well remember Ed Schenk's issues when he first moved his boat.
All I can explain is what works for me, and is reflective of Captain Klang's booklet, for where and when it can work.
Everyone has a different bag of tricks and tools at his disposal.
It is clear that this technique will not work for the "dock" in your description. And you will have to employ your own "bag of tricks" to make it work for you.
But what might not work at your slip, it may well work at guest docks, fuel docks and restaurant docks.
my wife and i find our little boat just right for the two of us..fine for a couple nights out as well...mind you we are only on a LARGE lake...well docking is not an issue with me...YET...i set the sails down just a bit out of the harbour and power in with my little outboard..and set the sails up just a bit out of harbour...i am going to practise docking just before the ice forms and all other slip users are gone for the season...lol...
i single hand my 27' santana most of the time i also launch it and dock it the same with no motor but i wouldnt recommend it for everyone its all about comfort level .
as far as head room goes i dont have enough to stretch but i dont go sailing to stay below
as far as head room goes i dont have enough to stretch but i dont go sailing to stay below
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