Our sailboat goes to port when backing her up. To the point where she is almost impossible to get her to turn to starboard. Any suggestions?
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Leave the throttle at idle
My C27 is the first inboard boat I've owned and I had quite a learning curve, especially when it came to backing. The boat is docked on the starboard side so backing out of the slip, she wants to go to port too. As long as I leave the throttle at idle and not try to steer until the rudder has water moving over it, the pull to port is manageable. Also, I've learned to use spring lines to keep the backward movement straight and also assist turning the boat 180 degrees toward the fairway. Once the boat turns, I just coil up the spring line and throw it to the dock and off we go.
My C27 is the first inboard boat I've owned and I had quite a learning curve, especially when it came to backing. The boat is docked on the starboard side so backing out of the slip, she wants to go to port too. As long as I leave the throttle at idle and not try to steer until the rudder has water moving over it, the pull to port is manageable. Also, I've learned to use spring lines to keep the backward movement straight and also assist turning the boat 180 degrees toward the fairway. Once the boat turns, I just coil up the spring line and throw it to the dock and off we go.
Do you have a pedestal?
I've also heard some folks here say that if you stand in front of the pedestal, facing aft and steer while backing it is much easier. I haven't tried this one yet.
I've also heard some folks here say that if you stand in front of the pedestal, facing aft and steer while backing it is much easier. I haven't tried this one yet.
- Jan 22, 2008
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at slow rpm's
like when you are backing up, the prop has almost as much sideways propulsion as it does reverse, because it wants to walk the prop in the direction of rotation. The trick is to get the revs up quickly with a burst of thrust to get the boat moving backwards more than sideways, then bring down the revs and put in into neutral and allow momentum and your rudder to effect direction. I am assuming you have an inboard. If you have an outboard, simply orient the motor to counteract the sideways motion. This 'sidewalking' of the prop can be used to your advantage when approching alongside the dock as well. Point the forward quarter bow so that the angle of the bow is parallel to the dock rather than the boat. (It will look like you are angling into the dock). As you approach to within a couple of feet up front, put the motor into slow revs reverse. This not only slows your forward motion but brings the rear quarter of the boat parallel with the dock as well, essentially making it look like you are using your bow and stern thrusters to edge your boat sideways alongside the dock... a very professional and satisfying move! especially when your crew can walk off the boat with the docklines, and the boat having stopped within a couple of inches of the dock. Practice improves this really good looking move.
like when you are backing up, the prop has almost as much sideways propulsion as it does reverse, because it wants to walk the prop in the direction of rotation. The trick is to get the revs up quickly with a burst of thrust to get the boat moving backwards more than sideways, then bring down the revs and put in into neutral and allow momentum and your rudder to effect direction. I am assuming you have an inboard. If you have an outboard, simply orient the motor to counteract the sideways motion. This 'sidewalking' of the prop can be used to your advantage when approching alongside the dock as well. Point the forward quarter bow so that the angle of the bow is parallel to the dock rather than the boat. (It will look like you are angling into the dock). As you approach to within a couple of feet up front, put the motor into slow revs reverse. This not only slows your forward motion but brings the rear quarter of the boat parallel with the dock as well, essentially making it look like you are using your bow and stern thrusters to edge your boat sideways alongside the dock... a very professional and satisfying move! especially when your crew can walk off the boat with the docklines, and the boat having stopped within a couple of inches of the dock. Practice improves this really good looking move.
Bursts
I give the throttle bursts of power and then I slow her down and go into neutral. As soon as water is moving past the rudder you'll get some stearage. I found leaving her at idle in reverse I'll pretty much do a 360 in 1 1/2 boat lengths...not fun if you'r not planning to do it. Peter
I give the throttle bursts of power and then I slow her down and go into neutral. As soon as water is moving past the rudder you'll get some stearage. I found leaving her at idle in reverse I'll pretty much do a 360 in 1 1/2 boat lengths...not fun if you'r not planning to do it. Peter
Practice, Practice
I have to back my 30' Newport in to the slip, it was a little harry to say the least the first time doing it. Now it's down to an exact science, I back it in with the dock on the stbd side, just take your time and like they said shot bursts usually sraighten it in.I also have one line that runs from the bow to the stern and as i pass the end pole of the dock i slip it over that, then i know i'm hooked to some thing solid. I do a lot of single hand sailing, it also helps to have a great bunch of dock friends that help each other when docking. Practice out in the open water and get the feel of the boat going backwards and DON"T rush it, take your time. Happy backing
I have to back my 30' Newport in to the slip, it was a little harry to say the least the first time doing it. Now it's down to an exact science, I back it in with the dock on the stbd side, just take your time and like they said shot bursts usually sraighten it in.I also have one line that runs from the bow to the stern and as i pass the end pole of the dock i slip it over that, then i know i'm hooked to some thing solid. I do a lot of single hand sailing, it also helps to have a great bunch of dock friends that help each other when docking. Practice out in the open water and get the feel of the boat going backwards and DON"T rush it, take your time. Happy backing
How?
Greg, how do you get it up to a speed where the rudder is effective in neutral? Not trying to be a smart xxx, just don't understand.
Greg, how do you get it up to a speed where the rudder is effective in neutral? Not trying to be a smart xxx, just don't understand.
My "limited" experiance
One of the things first taught (and practiced with) in the ASA classes that I took was "prop walk". Most boats will "walk" to port when first put into reverse and the rudder will not be effective until the boat begins to move and water starts to pass over the rudder. Knowing this, and depending upon the situation (wind, current, side of boat that your dock is on, etc.), you can use this to your advantage. The prop walk that my boat exhibits (H456) seemed pretty excessive (to me) but with practice it's not the issue that it once was. (Except in tight situations, or wind out of the south, or any one of a dozen other "exceptions") ;D Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
One of the things first taught (and practiced with) in the ASA classes that I took was "prop walk". Most boats will "walk" to port when first put into reverse and the rudder will not be effective until the boat begins to move and water starts to pass over the rudder. Knowing this, and depending upon the situation (wind, current, side of boat that your dock is on, etc.), you can use this to your advantage. The prop walk that my boat exhibits (H456) seemed pretty excessive (to me) but with practice it's not the issue that it once was. (Except in tight situations, or wind out of the south, or any one of a dozen other "exceptions") ;D Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
I said idle...not neutral
I hardly move the throttle lever off idle. The shifter lever is back and forth between neutral and reverse. I don't like to give it a burst in reverse because it seems to have more of a lateral effect that reverse effect. I think the biggest key to reversing is to just go slow. I try to more or less persuade the boat in reverse rather than drive it in reverse if you know what I mean. Getting out of my slip I have to immediately make a 180 degree turn. As my boat gains slight momentum in reverse, I'll stand at the stern paying out a spring line attached to the dock. As soon as the bow is clear of the pilings I'll hold the spring line and the boat nicely pivots within its boat length. Its a pretty slick maneuver I picked up from a web site several months back.
I hardly move the throttle lever off idle. The shifter lever is back and forth between neutral and reverse. I don't like to give it a burst in reverse because it seems to have more of a lateral effect that reverse effect. I think the biggest key to reversing is to just go slow. I try to more or less persuade the boat in reverse rather than drive it in reverse if you know what I mean. Getting out of my slip I have to immediately make a 180 degree turn. As my boat gains slight momentum in reverse, I'll stand at the stern paying out a spring line attached to the dock. As soon as the bow is clear of the pilings I'll hold the spring line and the boat nicely pivots within its boat length. Its a pretty slick maneuver I picked up from a web site several months back.
Boat Show
I "love" to put on a boat show backing into my slip with my H450 when the wind is out of the South at about 20 kts. Somedays I'll try five or six times just to entertain fellow boaters at the marina.
I "love" to put on a boat show backing into my slip with my H450 when the wind is out of the South at about 20 kts. Somedays I'll try five or six times just to entertain fellow boaters at the marina.
Use power
Keep the boat moving! Throttle up to get momentum, (seconds only) short bursts, then throttle right back to idle reverse. Start with the wheel in a slight right turn, then ease it back to midship as the boat starts to move. Plan to steer when the power is "off" and the boat is at idle reverse. When you start to lose mometum, use very short bursts of power again. Don't be tentative to use a lot of power at first to get the boat moving backwards. Good luck, marc This method will work with all types of props, even folding.
Keep the boat moving! Throttle up to get momentum, (seconds only) short bursts, then throttle right back to idle reverse. Start with the wheel in a slight right turn, then ease it back to midship as the boat starts to move. Plan to steer when the power is "off" and the boat is at idle reverse. When you start to lose mometum, use very short bursts of power again. Don't be tentative to use a lot of power at first to get the boat moving backwards. Good luck, marc This method will work with all types of props, even folding.
Backing Up
I have found that the easiest way to back my Catalina 380 is to give myself enough room to put her in reverse, throttle up fairly high getting some reverse speed going, then shutting the throttle off and putting the transmission in neutral. You gain complete control at that point and can use the forward gear to slow yourself as you start coming into the slip. As you practice, you will learn to have your stern to starboard of where you're "aiming" your boat, so that the prop walk will bring the stern into proper position about the time you're moving the transmission into neutral.
I have found that the easiest way to back my Catalina 380 is to give myself enough room to put her in reverse, throttle up fairly high getting some reverse speed going, then shutting the throttle off and putting the transmission in neutral. You gain complete control at that point and can use the forward gear to slow yourself as you start coming into the slip. As you practice, you will learn to have your stern to starboard of where you're "aiming" your boat, so that the prop walk will bring the stern into proper position about the time you're moving the transmission into neutral.
Dan...
You get rudder control in neutral the same way you gain rudder control while sailing in neutral. The rudder works by having water flow past it. The prop is only used for propulsion.
You get rudder control in neutral the same way you gain rudder control while sailing in neutral. The rudder works by having water flow past it. The prop is only used for propulsion.
Greg - Works with a tiller too!
I have found that backing up is much easier if I stand facing the stern and then steer with the tiller as if the stern was the bow. It is less confusing that way, because the stern will move opposite the direction of the tiller (from your point of view). You can feel a sweet spot where the steering from the rudder is just enough to overcome the prop walk effect. However, I really need to practice with a spring line - I moved to a new slip and the spring line method may be a better option this year. Happy Sailing! David Jones 'Wild Goose'
I have found that backing up is much easier if I stand facing the stern and then steer with the tiller as if the stern was the bow. It is less confusing that way, because the stern will move opposite the direction of the tiller (from your point of view). You can feel a sweet spot where the steering from the rudder is just enough to overcome the prop walk effect. However, I really need to practice with a spring line - I moved to a new slip and the spring line method may be a better option this year. Happy Sailing! David Jones 'Wild Goose'
Use power
Keep the boat moving! Throttle up to get momentum, (seconds only) short bursts, then throttle right back to idle reverse. Start with the wheel in a slight right turn, then ease it back to midship as the boat starts to move. Plan to steer when the power is "off" and the boat is at idle reverse. When you start to lose mometum, use very short bursts of power again. Don't be tentative to use a lot of power at first to get the boat moving backwards. Good luck, marc This method will work with all types of props, even folding.
Keep the boat moving! Throttle up to get momentum, (seconds only) short bursts, then throttle right back to idle reverse. Start with the wheel in a slight right turn, then ease it back to midship as the boat starts to move. Plan to steer when the power is "off" and the boat is at idle reverse. When you start to lose mometum, use very short bursts of power again. Don't be tentative to use a lot of power at first to get the boat moving backwards. Good luck, marc This method will work with all types of props, even folding.
Turn rudder to go to port
What I do that seems to work best for me is to turn to the port. When I back up slowly the stern pulls to the port. If I get too far to the port I put the engine in forward and give a burst of power. The prop wash over the rudder pushes the stern to starboard. With a little practice you can get the stern to move to the starboard with very little forward motion. At least with a Pearson 323. I tried the get moving and put into neutral method without much success. When docking I like things to happen slowly and if you back up fast enough to steer by the rudder things happen too quickly.
What I do that seems to work best for me is to turn to the port. When I back up slowly the stern pulls to the port. If I get too far to the port I put the engine in forward and give a burst of power. The prop wash over the rudder pushes the stern to starboard. With a little practice you can get the stern to move to the starboard with very little forward motion. At least with a Pearson 323. I tried the get moving and put into neutral method without much success. When docking I like things to happen slowly and if you back up fast enough to steer by the rudder things happen too quickly.
Prop walk - archive searched link included
Since nobody else mentioned it, please check the archives for this incredibly heavily discussed topic. The link is to the archives search. Happy reading. Stu PS the rudder won't work when you're in gear at idle on the engine. You NEED to get some speed up or you'll always pull to port. Try it sometimes AWAY from the dock. Practice, practice, practice.
Since nobody else mentioned it, please check the archives for this incredibly heavily discussed topic. The link is to the archives search. Happy reading. Stu PS the rudder won't work when you're in gear at idle on the engine. You NEED to get some speed up or you'll always pull to port. Try it sometimes AWAY from the dock. Practice, practice, practice.
Archive Searches...
I agree that searching the archives is a very smart thing to do and that's usually my first stop when I have a question. However, I find it interesting when somebody brings up a question such as this one, even though it's been discussed before. There are always new folks on this list who may have fresh ideas and new solutions to old problems. The fun of this list is to pick the threads you like and you are free to ignore the rest.
I agree that searching the archives is a very smart thing to do and that's usually my first stop when I have a question. However, I find it interesting when somebody brings up a question such as this one, even though it's been discussed before. There are always new folks on this list who may have fresh ideas and new solutions to old problems. The fun of this list is to pick the threads you like and you are free to ignore the rest.
When there is a crosswind blowing...
... the wind has far greater effect on my backing out of the slip than any rudder I can apply! I have to back out into a narrow fairway with very little room to swing at the best of times. With a crosswind the bow is pushed away, and if it's from the east I am often forced to back out of the marina! Causes a lot of comments from my neighbors ;D
... the wind has far greater effect on my backing out of the slip than any rudder I can apply! I have to back out into a narrow fairway with very little room to swing at the best of times. With a crosswind the bow is pushed away, and if it's from the east I am often forced to back out of the marina! Causes a lot of comments from my neighbors ;D
Archives Resource
Laura Please note that I have been chastised any number of times in the past about suggesting that folks use the archives. I agree wholeheartedly with you and think new discussions foster greater interest and awareness. All I did this time, and will continue to do, is find the archives reference and post it as a link. That way it makes it easier for the respondent to get to the material. Please also note that many people who are new to the site and who ask previously asked and answered questions, may not be familiar with the archives and the way to get to them. Just trying to help. Stu
Laura Please note that I have been chastised any number of times in the past about suggesting that folks use the archives. I agree wholeheartedly with you and think new discussions foster greater interest and awareness. All I did this time, and will continue to do, is find the archives reference and post it as a link. That way it makes it easier for the respondent to get to the material. Please also note that many people who are new to the site and who ask previously asked and answered questions, may not be familiar with the archives and the way to get to them. Just trying to help. Stu
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