Suggestion for Furling Line?

Joe · Mar 27, 2015

Ward H said:
Planning to replace the 5/16" furling line on my Furlex 100 jib furler.
As the 5/16" gets older it seems to swell a bit and get a bit fuzzy. The swelling limits the amount of line that fits on the drum and the fuzzyness seems to prevent it from wrapping smoothly.

So, I am looking for suggestions for a line that is smooth so it will wrap properly and won't swell or would I be OK going to 1/4" line to get more on the drum.
Not interested in de coring the line.

Thanks in advance

Ward.... that is why most furling manufacturers recommend removing the core out of the first third of the line.... At that point you don't need the core's strength and the cover only portion will lie flat in the drum to give you more room for the cored part.

You can certainly use 1/4" line, it's more than strong enough, but you may find it harder on the hand... not sure what you're using for a cleat... probably won't make much difference there... unless it's a large clam or vee cleat, then you would want to down size it.

thinwater · Mar 27, 2015

To expand on what Joe said...

What you probably need is 3/8" line with no core. It will have less cross section area (0.07 in2 vs 0.94 in2) than 5/16" line and will also roll better because it is flat. 5/16" line with no core might be too thin and would not wear as long.

thinwater · Mar 27, 2015

thinwater said:
To expand on what Joe said...

What you probably need is 3/8" line with no core. It will have less cross section area (0.07 in2 vs 0.94 in2) than 5/16" line and will also roll better because it is flat. 5/16" line with no core might be too thin and would not wear as long.

Only remove the portion that will be on the drum. 10 feet should be enough for your boat.

Doug4bass · Mar 27, 2015

Strange......I am on my third furler now. All brand new, Furlex, Shaeffer, and Harken, and none recommended ( that can remember) "decoring" the furling line. All had fairly small line which sometimes required gloves, just as Stu said. In some cases there was too much line on the drum which caused some friction, so I just removed some turns and never had a problem afterwards.

Ralph Johnstone · Mar 27, 2015

Doug4bass said:
In some cases there was too much line on the drum which caused some friction, so I just removed some turns and never had a problem afterwards.

Doug is correct (as is the attached manual). You've got more line on the drum than is required.

The furling line on our Selden Furlex 100S is 15 years old and and sees the washing machine every couple of years. It's probably swelled a little over the years but no problem with getting the required amount of line on the drum. You should have about one turn of furling line on the drum when the sail is completely furled.

Don't remove just part of the core or you'll really have a bulky mess on your hands as it slides up into the casing with usage.

All U Get · Mar 27, 2015

Ralph Johnstone said:
Doug is correct (as is the attached manual). You've got more line on the drum than is required.

Don't remove just part of the core or you'll really have a bulky mess on your hands as it slides up into the casing with usage.

We cored 1/3 of ours but stitched the remaining core with whipping thread so we didn't get a mess.

All U Get

Stu Jackson · Mar 27, 2015

To core or not to core, that is the question.

Your boat, your choice.

However, it appears that most suggest not doing it and why, before you do that as a First Step.

Good luck.

All U Get · Mar 27, 2015

We did it out of frustration. I spent two seasons undoing the overwraps in the furling spool usually during some inopportune weather. So instead of chucking the whole mess into the bay I decided to core it. Works better but I have to keep tension on the line while deploying the sail. A smaller line might work better on the spool but would be hard on the hands. If I could custom make a line it would be 3/16 at the spool and 1/2 inch for my hands.

BTW my Hood Furler has a feeding fairlead on a short arm that feeds the line to the spool. The line always wraps the lower 2/3 before it jumps to the top. If we use the 135 Genoa instead of the 110 Yankee, the spool jams and we can't get the last 5 or so wraps of sail out. Sometimes sailing isn't fun.

All U Get

thinwater · Mar 27, 2015

Ward H said:
OK, I will give de-coring a try. After removing the core, do you need to stitch the remaining cut end?

a. Most professional riggers will de-core the furling line. We didn't invent the idea. It really is the right answer most of the time.

b. Yes, a little basting stitching with whipping thread near the cut end, after you pull it back into the cover, is the cure. Perhaps 12 stitches over 4-6 inches. They don't need to be tight. NOT a whipping, just stitches to give a little friction. No bunching. Common practice on bury splices too.

c. Taper the cut end. Remove one strand ~ each1/2 inch. This is common practice with splices too, so I forgot to mention it. If you pull extra and bunch up the cover, it slides right back inside. Very smooth finish, no snagging or bunching.

I suspect Ralph experienced it done wrong; it NEVER bunches up, done right. In fact, the flatter profile is much more stable on the drum if the sail is ever used partly furled in a blow, which I do all the time.

Skipper · Mar 27, 2015

Ward H said:
Hi Joe, I do a 180 turn at a ratchet block at a stern rail support, then back to a horn cleat.

2nd.
Mine attaches to a thru-bolted pad eye. Also the block is a ratchet type that can be engaged/disengaged. Engaged, it does a decent job of restricting back pull. This is good for safety and for easing the load on my hands. Never need gloves. Can't recall if line is 1/4 or 5/16. I think it's 5/16. Also the jib winch is right there if needed, a load for which the block is rated. However I've never needed the winch.
Anyway this might be a good setup to allow a thinner line without causing grief when handling. Just make sure the line is strong enough - there can be significant loads put on the line when reef-furled.

Joe · Mar 27, 2015

Ward H said:
OK, I will give de-coring a try. After removing the core, do you need to stitch the remaining cut end?

Yes.. but it's easy... A "lock stitch" is all you need. Two sets of 5 or 6 quarter inch stitches with the sets 90 degrees to each other... You can repeat the lock stitches every 6 feet or so if you like... The de cored end can be singed before you tie the knot in the drum... it's overkill I know.. but it will give you peace of mind.

One more thing... if you want to prolong the life of your running rigging... keep it out of the sun and weather when you're not using it... not every day.. but if you leave the boat for long periods... removing or covering the sheets, furling line, halyards, etc.... will extend their lives considerably. How many boats do you see with their sheets wrapped around the furler, with a crusty knot at the clew... and the lines are faded and swollen from exposure.... If you're taking off for a month or so... remove the sheets and replace with a single sacrificial line to keep the sail wrapped.... Attach a messenger to your halyards, pull them down into a deck bag.... oohh that's a lot of work you say.... well it's only 5 or 10 minutes and you only do it when you know you're going to be away for awhile...

Heck, I would consider removing the sail entirely and stowing it below even...

Just sayin'..... you spend a lot of money on cordage and sails.... why not take care of them.

Joe · Mar 27, 2015

Skipper said:
2nd.
Mine attaches to a thru-bolted pad eye. Also the block is a ratchet type that can be engaged/disengaged. Engaged, it does a decent job of restricting back pull. This is good for safety and for easing the load on my hands. Never need gloves. Can't recall if line is 1/4 or 5/16. I think it's 5/16. Also the jib winch is right there if needed, a load for which the block is rated. However I've never needed the winch.
Anyway this might be a good setup to allow a thinner line without causing grief when handling. Just make sure the line is strong enough - there can be significant loads put on the line when reef-furled.

Your comment reminded me of another solution for those of you who may not want to de core the furling line...... that is to build a tapered line.... where the core is left intact and the cover is stripped off except for the part that is handled or cleated. There is a 1/4 inch difference between cover and core... so a 5/16 line would have a 3/16 core.... That would work!!!!

If want to do this yourself.... go to Samson Ropes splicing page and look up "bury splice" or "taper splice" this will give you instructions on how to bury the cover into the core and give the line a taper that allows it to travel through blocks and fairleads cleanly.

Ron20324 · Mar 27, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
To core or not to core, that is the question. ...Your boat, your choice.....

Keep in mind you are weakening the part of the furling line that bears the greatest load- when the sail is fully deployed

shemandr · Mar 27, 2015

It's a question of how weak. Riggers have signed off on this. If I had my druthers I would use the core and strip the cover. But that's not what what is being done. I wonder about the stretch of the cover. Nevertheless, riggers rule. Let them do the numbers. Or you could use smaller line - it's not like lower diameter line is too weak. Today's cordage is very strong and low stretch.
As with all cordage, except my dingy painter and dock lines, I like low stretch.

Ron20324 · Mar 27, 2015

And is the core UV resistant?

shemandr · Mar 27, 2015

Probably not. And probably not very abrasion resistant. That's why there are covers.

Joe · Mar 27, 2015

shemandr said:
Probably not. And probably not very abrasion resistant. That's why there are covers.

Totally untrue. It depends on the cordage... Many rope products, such as Samson Warpspeed, are designed to do exactly this... strip the cover from the non handled/cleated sections.... the dyneema core of these lines is uv treated.... Amsteel for instance. But this is a pricey option... 5/16 Warpspeed from APS is $1.85/ft, N.E. Endura braid is $2.27 for 5/16!

But in this application you don't need the strength of dyneema.... a basic polyester will be plenty... So... something like N.E. Regatta braid (polyester single braid) could be covered on the part than is handled and cleated.

You can purchase 1/4" regatta braid from the APS site for .43/ft. then cover it with the outside layer of an inexpensive double braid... 3/8" Samson LS for example.... by using the core as a messenger to pull the regatta braid into place. Or you can even buy a "cover only" product (comes with messenger line in place).... such as this Yale product... 3/8" is .65/ft.

Suggestion for Furling Line?

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