I am about to pull the trigger on a Beneteau 331 for 70-75k. It is in immaculate condition. The guy kept track of every little thing he did to it, it looks brand new. It does not, however, have much extra to it. No windlass, autopilot, gps, chartplotter, spinnaker setup, extra sails, bimini or dodger. Very basic. Engine hours at 385. The problem is that its at the very top of my price range, and may be a struggle. On the other hand, there are two other boats that are affordable(no upgrades either). An older(1990), and much less roomy, Beneteau 32s5 asking 53k (kind of high), and a '01 Hunter 320 asking 54k. Its hard to stretch the budget, but the Beneteau 331 is obviously the better overall boat in how it sails and the livability. I wonder if we buy the other Beneteau or the Hunter that we would regret not getting the 331 at what seems to be a really good price.
stuck!
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Keep looking! all too many people
buy all that they can afford and too often it is more than they can properly keep. All of the refinements that you mentioned you won't be able to have because you have maxed out your budget on purchase price.
buy all that they can afford and too often it is more than they can properly keep. All of the refinements that you mentioned you won't be able to have because you have maxed out your budget on purchase price.
the end of the season is coming..
Good point, although all I really want is the dodger/bimini set up and maybe a windlass. The other stuff is uneccesary for a good sail.
Good point, although all I really want is the dodger/bimini set up and maybe a windlass. The other stuff is uneccesary for a good sail.
Tell him
That you will sign a contract to buy it at that price if he puts a GPS, AutoPilot and Bimini on it (all new too). You don't need a windlass and a dodger isn't all that necessary but nice on cold or rainy days (if your a day sailor you will not be out in that anyway). You can get by without a spin and extra sails.
That you will sign a contract to buy it at that price if he puts a GPS, AutoPilot and Bimini on it (all new too). You don't need a windlass and a dodger isn't all that necessary but nice on cold or rainy days (if your a day sailor you will not be out in that anyway). You can get by without a spin and extra sails.
Stop Looking!
...buy what excites you...buy the 331 and sail it as is until you can afford the extras...my first Beneteau was too small and tender (281) and have now traded it in on a 343...good luck with your decision.
...buy what excites you...buy the 331 and sail it as is until you can afford the extras...my first Beneteau was too small and tender (281) and have now traded it in on a 343...good luck with your decision.
another good point
He is asking 84k and already lowered his price from 96k. He already turned down an offer of 70k while it was at 96k, but he is a two boat owner and motivated. Not sure if I can haggle anymore than 75k as it is.
He is asking 84k and already lowered his price from 96k. He already turned down an offer of 70k while it was at 96k, but he is a two boat owner and motivated. Not sure if I can haggle anymore than 75k as it is.
IF
If you aren't planning on it as a liveaboard, DO NOT MAX OUT THE BUDGET! Another boat will show up. It'll take the fun out of ownership if it's a stress for payments or you've got no time because you got to work overtime to get money to improve it. The whole point is relaxing and loving life. Get a next to free 20'er and live. The proper time will come for something nicer. Note: this is contrary to the "max out the credit card" phylosphy of average America, but a HUGE difference in quality of life.
If you aren't planning on it as a liveaboard, DO NOT MAX OUT THE BUDGET! Another boat will show up. It'll take the fun out of ownership if it's a stress for payments or you've got no time because you got to work overtime to get money to improve it. The whole point is relaxing and loving life. Get a next to free 20'er and live. The proper time will come for something nicer. Note: this is contrary to the "max out the credit card" phylosphy of average America, but a HUGE difference in quality of life.
doug
That is one of my main concerns. Having the budget stretched stresses me out. I have a great job and its nice to have the extra dough for whatever I am interested in. We are going to spend a few nites a week on it, so it does need to be livable.
That is one of my main concerns. Having the budget stretched stresses me out. I have a great job and its nice to have the extra dough for whatever I am interested in. We are going to spend a few nites a week on it, so it does need to be livable.
I don't know nuthin'
All I can say is unnecessary payments, FOR ME, sucked. I had more fun on a little boat than I had in a nice car. I think it's a live in your means thing. You know in your heart what you should do, but a shiney new prestigous bobble usually has quite an allure. Somehow it's good, it's makes us work harder, drives us to the next promotion, but just don't miss the point. The smartest man made alot of money....and took time to enjoy it.
All I can say is unnecessary payments, FOR ME, sucked. I had more fun on a little boat than I had in a nice car. I think it's a live in your means thing. You know in your heart what you should do, but a shiney new prestigous bobble usually has quite an allure. Somehow it's good, it's makes us work harder, drives us to the next promotion, but just don't miss the point. The smartest man made alot of money....and took time to enjoy it.
Simple rule
If you can't afford to outfit and maintain a boat to a high standard, the boat is too big. That's why there are 15-20 year old boats with the original rigging and sails on them. The owner either didn't care or could not afford to keep the boat up. Typically, a new boat with a new to sailing owner gets a big boat with a payment they can handle. Several years in, when the OEM sails (that were not the best money could by to begin with) are blown out and the rigging should be inspected and possibly replaced, there is no money in the kitty. The boat gets sold to another owner that has purchased the biggest payment they can handle. Thinking that it's a fairly new boat, they don't budget for maintenance either ... after all the sails are in better shape than the last used boat they had ... Take a look at the records this owner kept. See how much he spent to keep the boat in the condition that you see it. Add that amount to the payments on the note and see if you still have extra for upgrades. I would budget 10% of the boat's purchase price for expenses each year. $600 a month. On a 10 year note, your payment is about $700? If so, would $1300 a month be a stress?
If you can't afford to outfit and maintain a boat to a high standard, the boat is too big. That's why there are 15-20 year old boats with the original rigging and sails on them. The owner either didn't care or could not afford to keep the boat up. Typically, a new boat with a new to sailing owner gets a big boat with a payment they can handle. Several years in, when the OEM sails (that were not the best money could by to begin with) are blown out and the rigging should be inspected and possibly replaced, there is no money in the kitty. The boat gets sold to another owner that has purchased the biggest payment they can handle. Thinking that it's a fairly new boat, they don't budget for maintenance either ... after all the sails are in better shape than the last used boat they had ... Take a look at the records this owner kept. See how much he spent to keep the boat in the condition that you see it. Add that amount to the payments on the note and see if you still have extra for upgrades. I would budget 10% of the boat's purchase price for expenses each year. $600 a month. On a 10 year note, your payment is about $700? If so, would $1300 a month be a stress?
It's all about what you want a boat for
William said that he felt a 281 was too small and tender so his advice was to buy a bigger boat. I don't feel my 281 is either too small or too tender. I sail in winds up to 30 kts with things reefed. I single hand most of the time and the 281 has the perfect size cockpit for my purposes. You do have to pay attention and actually trim sails in higher winds though. I guess what you call tender, I call exciting. We weekend on it often and it's very roomy for a 28' boat. Pick the boat that suits how you will use it, not based on advice from others. No matter what you buy, you'll eventually second guess yourself when you see some other "bigger" boat.
William said that he felt a 281 was too small and tender so his advice was to buy a bigger boat. I don't feel my 281 is either too small or too tender. I sail in winds up to 30 kts with things reefed. I single hand most of the time and the 281 has the perfect size cockpit for my purposes. You do have to pay attention and actually trim sails in higher winds though. I guess what you call tender, I call exciting. We weekend on it often and it's very roomy for a 28' boat. Pick the boat that suits how you will use it, not based on advice from others. No matter what you buy, you'll eventually second guess yourself when you see some other "bigger" boat.
two things...maybe three
Thanks for all your advice. I understand, Bill, its up to me, but it sure helps to talk it out with other sailors. I like the B32s5, its a good looking boat, built well, I don't know enough about it yet to know about the upkeep and how it was maintained. I have talked to other guys here in the Bay Area that own one and they both say it is a great boat for the winds here. The Hunter just looks like its future is one of those old moldy boats you look at in dry dock, no matter how well you take care of it.
Thanks for all your advice. I understand, Bill, its up to me, but it sure helps to talk it out with other sailors. I like the B32s5, its a good looking boat, built well, I don't know enough about it yet to know about the upkeep and how it was maintained. I have talked to other guys here in the Bay Area that own one and they both say it is a great boat for the winds here. The Hunter just looks like its future is one of those old moldy boats you look at in dry dock, no matter how well you take care of it.
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