Hello all. I would like to remove the forward wall (and door) of the head closet. I know this mod has been done before, and would like to know from those of you who've done this if the removal would compromise the deck above. There are a couple of 1/4-20 bolts at the top, and the 2x2 post with 1/4-20s at the bottom, that would be removed. Thanks in advance.
Structural integrity
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http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-5.html
I took it out of our S and didn't feel it was really doing anything. In the next pictures you can see the rib that crosses the boat in that area and I feel it is the main structural element to stiffen the deck above it. I haven't noticed any deflection in the deck above since doing this. Now I'm assuming the S and D are similar. Might want to see if yours looks like these pictures.
Made the V-berth very liveable now and I'm 6'-1" and have lots of room. My feet aren't jamed up at the bow end any more and it also increased....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-15.html
... storage both below that area and above it if you totally remove the head from there. Is that the plan or will the head stay and this is just to make using it easier?
Sumner
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Sum is right... it is not structural. the only structural support is the compression post. the partitions are just privacy partitions...
Thanks guys. Sumner, I've admired your mods for some time and I know that you take all into consideration (structurally, etc.) before you make changes, but I didn't know if you had maybe beefed up the area above after you removed the wall and small post. I simply want to ease access in the V berth area. My boss and I will probably sleep in the aft area, but I just wanted the extra space for the head area without being cramped there. We'll curtain off the area laterally, from daggerboard trunk to port side. I would just like the extra elbow room that the closet limits.
Incidentally Centerline, mine doesn't have a compression post. I assume that the daggerboard trunk takes that load, correct?
I think that is correct. I have been thinking about adding a post that runs up the trunk, as my ceiling does have a crack forming. Not sure if had started before the walls came out or after, but I feel like it started before. I bet the stiffness/rigidity is different, boat-to-boat...
It’s the bulkhead just under the mast that is most important. The bulkhead forward of the one under the mast definitely adds some strength to the structure - but the question is - is it excess strength and not needed. I would agree with others that it’s probably excess.. but I have looked at that when I needed four beds in the boat and couldn’t bring myself to remove it. If I did remove that, I would probably save it in case the next owner wanted to put it back in.
I remember the crack Willsnow mentioned but I think it was more lined up with the daggerboard trunk and not the forward bulkhead so maybe not related to removing the forward bulkhead??
I remember the crack Willsnow mentioned but I think it was more lined up with the daggerboard trunk and not the forward bulkhead so maybe not related to removing the forward bulkhead??
i may be mistaken, but i think the model the OP has is equipped with a dagger board/trunk rather than the centerboard, as is shown in the diagram.... which the daggerboard trunk does come all the way to the coachroof for support under the mast...
the cored deck is strong enough to support any normal loading it may ever take, as long as there is some firm support directly under the mast.
boats with structural bulkheads generally help support the hull due to the necessary shroud tension, but the small macs are designed to not need that type of support.
This is the crack I'm talking about. I think it started before I pulled out my head enclosure, so I don't think thats the culprit. I noticed the fiberglass is de-lamitnating at the upper seam of my window. The window also cracked right down the middle so i think I've got some swelling of the glass/movement of the deck
View attachment 75178
View attachment 75178
Bulkheads are inserted into boat designs to add 3-dimensional stiffness that the simple hull/deck structure simply cannot. They are never 'decorative'. On a very lightly constructed boat, I would be thinking about ways to ADD stiffness, not remove it.
I'm in agreement with Jackdaw. I don't think it's a good idea to remove any of the bulkheads. Our boats are made lightly... Just like our trailers.
Willsnow I would be concerned with that crack. That is ware the baby stays attach to the cabin top. That bump that goes through the cabin top is a structural part of the top. It's important.
If it were one of my boats I'd grind it out and repair it properly. Check youtube for boatworkstoday. He shows how to repair holes properly.
Willsnow I would be concerned with that crack. That is ware the baby stays attach to the cabin top. That bump that goes through the cabin top is a structural part of the top. It's important.
If it were one of my boats I'd grind it out and repair it properly. Check youtube for boatworkstoday. He shows how to repair holes properly.
I'd normally agree but with the S at least I'm convinced that what we are talking about is not a bulkhead but a privacy curtain made out of a solid material instead of cloth.
The one above is the structural one with the S with the compression post on the right side of it. Notice all the attach points. I don't have a good picture of the one we are talking about that was between the two cushions above (to the left of the two vertical arrows). If I remember right it was held on by just a couple bolts, just enough to hold it in place,
Sumner
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I really don’t think you can get a qualified answer for this on a forum - certainly lots of opinions - which is what my answer also - only an opinion. Also, anyone at the factory would be crazy to answer the question as someone may try and hold who ever gave the answer responsible if a problem developed (even if unrelated) after the change.
That forward bulkhead doesn’t take the down force of the mast. But if you twist the boat lengthwise, that forward bulkhead would make a difference - and of course.. this is just my opinion. If you sail the boat hard (some do, some don’t), you are going to put some three dimensional strain on things..
I don’t think you can rely on an answer here (unless the guy who designed the boat or did the software stress simulations chimes in). If you want to make the change. you take your chances. Just keep in mind the next person to own the boat may think like some of the poster here that the bulk head makes the structure at least a little stronger and want to put it back in..
That forward bulkhead doesn’t take the down force of the mast. But if you twist the boat lengthwise, that forward bulkhead would make a difference - and of course.. this is just my opinion. If you sail the boat hard (some do, some don’t), you are going to put some three dimensional strain on things..
I don’t think you can rely on an answer here (unless the guy who designed the boat or did the software stress simulations chimes in). If you want to make the change. you take your chances. Just keep in mind the next person to own the boat may think like some of the poster here that the bulk head makes the structure at least a little stronger and want to put it back in..
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My glass cracks - interior and exterior - will be addressed this spring (I promise...)(that promise is more to myself than you guys... no hard feelings)
When looking at the cruising waters I am moving to this spring, I am becoming more aware and more worried about the sea-worthiness of my vessel. She's done great in my little reservoirs, but Puget Sound is an entirely different beast.
I honestly don't think my removing of the head enclosure was detrimental to the structure of the boat, but i think the light weight factory build didn't help (I can see sunlight through the joint in my D-board trunk to deck. It looks to be just one layer of fiberglass) I should come up with a beefier structure in the center of my boat. Maybe a vertical I-beam along my dagger board...
When looking at the cruising waters I am moving to this spring, I am becoming more aware and more worried about the sea-worthiness of my vessel. She's done great in my little reservoirs, but Puget Sound is an entirely different beast.
I honestly don't think my removing of the head enclosure was detrimental to the structure of the boat, but i think the light weight factory build didn't help (I can see sunlight through the joint in my D-board trunk to deck. It looks to be just one layer of fiberglass) I should come up with a beefier structure in the center of my boat. Maybe a vertical I-beam along my dagger board...
Even if removing that "whatever it is" caused the crack I don’t think it is in the slightest a safety issue. I did not/wont remove mine but if I had to bet, I would bet that it is not going to cause any issue. Lots of boats do just have only a support under the mast. You just have to understand that for an issue like this, advice on a forum will all be speculation and you take some risk - but the speculation is from some intelligent people of course.
Hope you keep the boat up there. We are still hoping to spend about a month (Sept..maybe) in that area with the 26S somewhat based around Kingston/ Poulsbo because that is where my wife's relatives are. I’m also planning on a water trip to the San Juan’s. I think the 26 Classic will be a great boat for that trip. Ive tortured that boat over the years.. no issues.
Hope you keep the boat up there. We are still hoping to spend about a month (Sept..maybe) in that area with the 26S somewhat based around Kingston/ Poulsbo because that is where my wife's relatives are. I’m also planning on a water trip to the San Juan’s. I think the 26 Classic will be a great boat for that trip. Ive tortured that boat over the years.. no issues.
Lots of boats have stress cracks in the gel coat. My Mac has some the Endeavour has them and if this is what you are talking about they are cosmetic and not structural.
Yes the Mac doesn't have thick hulls but I've never read of a hull failure. Lots of X's and M's and 25's up in that area and probably S and D's also. Did you ever read about Bucko's trip in an S or D off shore from San Francisco to Panama...
http://lbucko.tripod.com/index.html
.... not that I would do that or recommend it and I think he made basically the same trip ....
http://lbucko.tripod.com/mship.htm
.... at another time in a Mac/Venture 22.
Where you are going I don't think it is going to be the Mac you need to worry about but learning how to sail there safely. We looked early in our
adventures about going north of Seattle into Canada and the Straight of Georgia and the fjord-like waterways between the coast and the islands but realized that we would of been in way over our heads at the time. The currents....
....can be unbelievable so you really have to pay attention to tide tables and what you are doing and also how you are anchoring up in that area. Around the San Juans not to the same extent but still it will be different than lake sailing.
Francois who posts on another board lives up there on Vancouver Island and had an S or D and went everywhere. He use to have a really nice web site but the link I have to it is now broken.
It is a great place and I'd still like to go there and would feel better about it now with a little more experience. Your boat will do fine, just learn what is going on up there in steps and you will be in some beautiful situations. I've lived up there twice, no boat, for short periods of time and it has a lot to offer,
Sumner
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No structural bulkheads in an X or M. unless you are seriously thinking 3/8th particle board and some faux vinyl wood grain decal material is of true structural value.. If you want a true Vberth that is actually useable the forward privacy panel has to go byebye. Easiest way to add some structural stiffness is to start doing glass work under the seats,making each underseat storage compartment a solid-sealed box heavily glasses to the hull, in addition I gelcoated every compartment to eliminate those dagger like shards that Macgregor was to cheap to clean up. along with five more layers of 24oz mat from ballast tank to 10inch above water line and you still will only have 5/8th to 3/4" hull thickness but tying it in to each under seat compartment will stiffen it up quite a bit. On the other hand a adding eighty pound of glass mat and 15-20gallons of resin will up your boat weight a tad..............