Stressful upwind journey - Long Beach to San Pedro - couple of questions

[marke14]

I had an interesting day of solo sailing yesterday. I checked the forecasts for weather, wind and tide information as I always do before taking the boat out. Moderate winds were forecast. We have a 25' masthead sloop, a Montego 25.

I motored through the channel from our marina in Wilmington, until I got to the open water near Angel's Gate (the Western opening in the breakwater that protects the LA/Long Beach harbor complex), near San Pedro.

(Aside: I signed the paperwork to change marinas, and we're moving out of Wilmington, thankfully, after two years of motoring 45 minutes each way, to get to open water.)

The wind was steady, about 8 knots out of the West as usual, and I raised the main, unfurled the jib, and headed downwind to Long Beach. It took about two hours to get all the way down to where I turned around.

In retrospect, the wind speed was rising as I turned around to go back upwind. I made two strategic errors yesterday, I think, this being the first. I should have reefed the main while I had the boat hove-to for a short time while I ate a snack and took a break. Instead I looked around and saw everyone around me with full canvas, so I headed back upwind inside the L.A./Long Beach breakwaters. I think this was my second error, as I ended up having a tough time with commercial traffic (tugboats and barges) as I finally/eventually neared Angel's Gate on the way back in. Had I gone through Queen's Gate (the Eastern opening in the breakwater, near Long Beach) and out into open water, I could have taken longer tacks and had more room to maneuver. However, that would have put me further offshore and potentially into even higher winds.

The wind increased significantly during the upwind slog back. I now believe that had I reefed the main, I would have had an easier time controlling the boat and wouldn't have heeled so much. As it was, there was no good place to berth, nor drop anchor, really (60+ feet of water, no windlass, singlehanded), and the wind waves were making things tough in terms of handling. Instead I tried to pinch in the puffs to reduce heel. I was glad to have my new sails that were cut appropriately for the boat and the wind.

Anyway, it was a difficult and somewhat scary sail back to the San Pedro area, where I was finally able to enter the channel and get out of the wind. I'd judge that the wind was steady in the 20 knott range (apparent), gusting a good bit more than that. It was whitecap city and I ended up with wet decks (and face/head). I was not able to measure the wind speed with my handheld, because I was too busy trying to keep the boat on its feet, heading the right direction, and not colliding with the idiot driving the barge who hemmed me in and then stopped - stopped! - while abeam (he had overtaken me, catching up with me at the narrowest part of the Angel's Gate area, forcing me to super short tack multiple times to avoid him, as I was clearly struggling - see my diagram).

I'm telling you - it was not an enjoyable day! The only thing I can say is that I have now sailed in wind that I would not knowingly go out into on purpose, and was able to control the boat and sail it home. Hopefully I am a better mariner for it.

I'll post a screen shot from Google Earth showing the overlay from the GPS when I get home later.

So, my questions for you experienced sailors. Bearing in mind this is a smaller, 25' boat with a lot of freeboard and thus a lot of windage ...

Do you agree with my conclusions regarding the reefing of the main, and the missed opportunity to go offshore for greater room to navigate?

How much heeling is to be expected in a fixed (fin) keel boat, in decently windy conditions? I was routinely hitting 30 degrees according to our little tilt-o-meter gage. I was getting pretty worried about broaching, and I guess I don't understand the difference between broaching, rounding up and rounding down, and the causes of each. I know that the round up/down difference has to do with which way the boat turns with respect to the wind, but I don't know the relationship to broaching?

During my upwind trip, I noticed that the leeward top shrouds would become slackened. I have read about this but have not noticed it previously, likely because I've never sailed in such windy conditions. Is this normal? Back at the dock, all was as it was before.

Thoughts welcomed!

 

[marke14]

Here's the diagram ...

 

[whatfiero]

Sounds like fun and glad you got back alright rounding up is not too bad but different boats may be different first you lose helm steariage then the boat slides on it's side into wind and then pops up on feet sails a flapping if over canvased on head sometimes you'll get a violent repatition of roundups till you realease the sail . Once I rounded up into a passing boat on a knock down after he stole my wind only to give back to me all at one time so I learned to stay clear of other things in heavy wind and depower sails in close quarters

 

[kimelmore]

AHhhhhh...the famous Hurricane Gulch gotcha. I would agree you may have been better off going out Queens gate on a long tack and then coming back in Angels gate. And as the saying goes .."the time to reef is when you first think you might have to" . The Admiral and I were coming back into San Pedro a couple of weeks ago and as expected the winds increased as I got closer to the gate. We ended up with way too much sail on and I had to let the main sheet almost all of the way out to dump the load on the rig, and we were still doing in the 6 knot range. Local sailors with lots more experience the local conditions will tell you that as you come around the point near Angels gate the winds will definitely increase, especially in the late afternoons in the summer. You are seeing the effects of the wind increase ( think Bernoulli's principle ) as it makes it's way around Point Fermin at the southern end of Palos Verdes. Welcome to the neighborhood. I'm in Holiday Harbor at the end of your new channel home.

 

[Daveinet]

I've only had my boat round up once, where I heeled bad enough I lost rudder control. The only bad part would be if you have other boats around, as you need space to recover. You loose forward motion, which means even after the boat levels out, you have little steerage, because the boat is not moving. When it happened to me, the boat changed tacks, so that meant my jib was on the wrong side of the mast which even further prevented the boat from accelerating, which still meant no steering. By the time the boat regained control, I was on a broad reach on the opposite tack. In the end, it was no big deal, as I was in wide open water.
Reefing is like voting in Chicago, Reef early, reef often.

 

[JohnVTX]

Surprisingly a reefed main will give you more speed and control, because it gets you off your side. If you think it, do it.

 

[rgranger]

Broaching happens when you are over powered on a run ( wind at your back)

 

[Kings Gambit]

Marke--Me mate (admiral) and I have sailed that route many times in combination of inside and outside over the 15 years of berthing in Shoreline Marina, plus we also had the Bavaria at Yacht Haven in Wilmington for a short stint of time near where you likely were slipped. A couple of points to remember. Generally, the wind increases toward afternoon; the wind also increases toward west near San Pedro. Sometimes it's blowing more than 10 kt higher in Los Angeles Harbor than it is in Long Beach Harbor, especially in comparison to near where you turned around in LBH in the lee of terminal island, etc. By all means reef the main to flatten the boat going up---and yes, you probably should have done that in LBH b/f heading back west.

I don't believe the outside route is necessarily the better alternative--it depends. The seas are much more "in your face" on port tack than on starboard tack out there, and the "small boats" I've seen out there "in difficulty" have evidently underestimated the distance required for their outbound tack (i.e., the easier, starboard one), and then try to pinch to make more westing once over on port tack, falling far short of the lay line, ending up too close in my opinion to the slosh near the seawall leeward of them. A couple of times I've seen 'em furl and motor b/c otherwise they're facing another 40-50 minutes b/f MAYBE tacking into a position to pass safely through Angels Gate from sea in the kind of air you're referring to. Big boats do it much better. Their heft allows them to punch through on the port tack heading for the gate and they can do it MUCH FASTER. Also, there is commercial traffic outside as well heading for the gate from the outside. More than once we've had to slow down, tack, or gybe to allow bruisers (as we call 'em) to pass through ahead of us. Yes, it's a bit nerve racking. My recommendation is to keep to the inside in blustery conditions until you feel comfortable doing that. At least you do not have 4 to 6 ft seas to also deal with! [That 6 n.mi. is no cake-walk in 20+ kt--so, don't feel discouraged. Take a mate with you the next time.]
KG

 

[Rick D]

I have nothing to add to King's excellent analysis. I second staying in the inner harbor for the run back to San Pedro. The seas pile up near the breakwater and are tough further out as well. Additionally, there is a lot of traffic going both in and out of the gate, so you may as well be inside. Good luck; that was good experience and you are thinking it through for next time. Good work!

 

[marke14]

Thank you all for the replies and encouragement. I have noticed the bias toward the starboard tack, I am relieved that I am not doing something wrong!

Here's my course. Urban sailing:

 

[marke14]

Am I correct in thinking that it was better to fly both sails in order to keep the boat balanced? I did try furling the head sail entirely, which flattened the boat out a bit, but I lost a lot of pointing. I saw some other guy in a small boat like mine trying that and I did beat him in.

P.S. I am terrified of the thought of running out of rudder.

 

[Kings Gambit]

If you're flatter, the long port tack into middle harbor can make much better westing (i.e., sail higher). Also, the last starboard tack b/f heading up toward the harbor channel should go into the gate for a better angle; do not need so much short tacking. It's hard to go upwind efficiently w/ a "crippled jib" or no jib at all; better to reef the main and/or put on a No. 3 headsail if you can get one. Normally, doing this route in that air, my main sail is mostly lugging w/ traveler all the way to leeward, but w/back-stay tightened up, out-haul pulled fairly tight, and the cunningham tensioned, etc. My speed w/ the 135 genoa lets me feather up to stay flat and also keep moving. It's actually a fun trip inside due to lack of seas; I keep the crew pretty busy and on "ready."

 

[marke14]

do not need so much short tacking.

I know, I was hemmed in by this damn barge, it was crazy!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Barges move, and you can duck behind them. I sail SF Bay and the commercial traffic is around a lot, but only lasts, in crossing situations, for mere minutes. You said you can heave to to be able to reef. Any reason you couldn't have done this? Space restraints?

 

[Head Sail]

You do have to watch that commercial traffic. They tend to be fixed on thier own course. If YOU don't move you get five horns.
My shrouds seem pretty tight on the leeward side in a blow. Maybe a little play.
Did you consider sailing with jib alone?

 

[kimelmore]

Adding to my previous post, I normally stay inside the breakwater in this area if I'm working my way up from Long Beach. As KG pointed out, the seas are a lot more of an issue outside. I've had wonderful sails up thru the inner harbor and some that were just miserable. I've also had wonderful sails up the outside, and yes you have to be aware that the big boys have the right of way but they usually move by pretty quickly. I've also seen some smaller boats have real problems in the late afternoon right by the gate with the wind howling. And yes...locals do call it Hurricane Gulch. There is even a "Hurricane Gulch Yacht Club in San Pedro. Good Luck.

 

[Gunni]

Those conditions are fine for your boat, assuming it is in good maintenance. Downwind your apparent wind tricked you into believing you were under control and properly canvassed. You were not. That is why downwind sailing is a risk to new sailors. When you turned to wind you got the true wind speed in the face. If you can heave-to, you can reef your main. Might need a harness to work at the mast, but you can reef the main. Good reason to run your halyard and reefing line(s) to the cockpit.

Unless you are racing, NEVER take your sail trim cues from some random dude who is out there with you, chances are high he has no clue and is scared witless! If you are racing you already incorporated the potential for seeing your rig go over the side, or worse, having someone come get your boat off the bottom. Know your boat and how to keep her properly trimmed in all conditions. I suggest you get back on the horse and get out there, take an experienced sailor with you, someone familiar with small boats and sail trim.

 

[Gunni]

Here is a video showing how to reef a similar sized boat while hove-to. Navy Sailing on a N26. They are doing this in one of the busiest harbor locations you could find.

 

[zeehag]

ahaaa you ventured outside the breakwall in a locale receiving up to 30 kts winds daily after 2 pm. when we sailed the 25 coronado all over hellen back there, we found the southerly drift current vs winds at angels gate could be nasty.
cabrillo marina is just inside the zone we all knew as hurricane alley- winds from hell. always seeming brisker there than anywhere else in lost angles.
from wilmington to san pedro?? use cerritos channel if you wish no winds , ye only have big boats in there, for most part, and they are proper in behavior, unlike the recreational boats there. or use the bay behind breakwall, or be daring and venture out into open ocean. some days just are not made for daysailing a smaller boat on the open pacific. yes outside breakwall is just exactly that. . yes i know--btdt. builds character.
glad yer ok and only had yer pants scared off ye. and yes, port of lost angels is one of the busiest ports in usa. if not world. i have forgotten its standings. traversing it in a small lil cute sailboat is a scary thought much less endeavor. done that.
as for reefing-- ye reef before ye leave dock in these busy ports unless you have much experience and know you can do it fast. the mouth at angels gate is a lot narrower when there is a ship in your direction, and it wasnt wide to begin with. .....

 

[zeehag]

sorry , unable to edit with my foul wifi here in mazatlan.....
not only is that entrance small, but you have no right of way in pola. they cannot see you, there is no time to stop a hugeness there , and rule of tonnage wins.
ps. my sailing friend was a female customs agent who had gotten deevorsed and needed someone to show her how to get her boat out the slip. she could not do that sola. on her days off we would cruise around pola sending fried chicken to certain cute stevies and hearing wolf whistles as they called her over to the boats they worked..many p o l a stories.. and then they made pola larger than it was then, so i can only imagine the busy there..