stress cracks

[David11038]

Sailed my 170 today in windy conditions (about 18-20) and had some problems furling the jib when overpowered (main was reefed). Got back safely, but when putting the boat away, I noticed some cracks at the base of both the port and starboard cam cleat (pics to follow). Has anyone else had this problem? I'll probably plan to keep the jib furled until I get a chance to have it checked out - would hate for one to pull out on a windy day, that could be dangerous. Wonder if covered by warranty, the hull should not have cracked, the loads would not have been that great...

 

[john6206]

I have had stress cracks near the rudder assembly and also near the mast step.
I kept sailing after I noticed the cracks and repaired them before winter came on.

john

 

[wundrbar]

Hunter ACP hulls are well known for cracking

Oh I've had more than my share of cracks. But mine weren't caused by stress. They were caused by temperature change. It turns out the material Hunter uses to build the boats, BASF Luran S, can't take severe temperature fluctuations. Whydo you think your owners manual says you shouldn't cover your boat with a dark colored cover. Have you ever heard anything more ridiculous?! Check out the photos of my boat one day last December when the temperature dropped to -25 degrees.
http://picasaweb.google.ca/p.eisenschmid/CanonEPP070204?authkey=Gv1sRgCL3Zp-H_tP-cAw#
And there was no water in the hull! This has happened to dozens of other Hunter owners - check out the archived forum threads. Worst of all, Hunter won't accept responsibility for all of this. They just sit on their hands and blame their customers. I've taken this all the way up to their executive team.

 

[Swordfish]

I have had stress cracks near the rudder assembly and also near the mast step.
I kept sailing after I noticed the cracks and repaired them before winter came on.

john

John,

How did you repair those hairline cracks? I found a couple near the base of my left jib sheet cleat.

Julian

 

[David11038]

Thanks for your replies. I called Hunter and left a message. They attempted to call me back once, but have not responded to my several voice messages since then. They also did not respond to my email. That isn't very good customer relations. I had wanted to ask if this would be covered by the 5 year hull warranty and where I should take it for repair. Or, if the repair is simple enough to do myself. I read about drilling a hole at the end of the crack, carving out a "v" along the crack and filling it. However, I am more concerned about the structural problems suggested by the cracks - do I have to worry about the whole assembly pulling out on a windy day and possibly hurting someone?

 

[Swordfish]

I think I have the same hairline crack as yours. I got back a reply from Hunter Marine within 24 hrs. Here is the reply:
"I would recommend that you repair the cracks by using the plexus or devcon adhesive with some fiberglass cloth.
Have a look at the attached picture guide that can show you how to proceed and make a repair.
I also would recommend that the jib cleats be removed, to make the repair, once the repair is complete and finished then
Pre drill the hole with a slightly larger drill bit but only thru the top layer. Do not drill completely thru the inner backing but
Just the outer shell which can help keep the outer plastic from touching the fastener. "

Try email warrantyparts@huntermarine dot com with any questions. Kyle is my contact. very reponsive. eMail me for the attachment he sent me. julianblo@yahoo dot com

 

[ArtinAlberta]

Cracked beyond repair

My NEW 170 cracked beyond repair after one short Canadian sailing season. The boat dealer that I purchased the boat from (I won't give out their name yet) is of absolutely ZERO help and Hunter Marine says they are going to get me a new one but to this date I still wait and no one at Hunter seems to really care. The excuses are now starting to contradict each other so it's obvious they are just putting me off. I would like to hear from people who are waiting for some kind of compensation from Hunter or a Boat Dealer. Maybe there is a little power in Numbers.:cussing:

 

[wldrns1]

My 2 Cents

My NEW 170 cracked beyond repair after one short Canadian sailing season. The boat dealer that I purchased the boat from (I won't give out their name yet) is of absolutely ZERO help and Hunter Marine says they are going to get me a new one but to this date I still wait and no one at Hunter seems to really care. The excuses are now starting to contradict each other so it's obvious they are just putting me off. I would like to hear from people who are waiting for some kind of compensation from Hunter or a Boat Dealer. Maybe there is a little power in Numbers.:cussing:

I used to own a 170. Bought it brand new. After the first season the rear quarters cracked through from port to starboard, radiating to the transom as well. Hunter replaced the hull. Four years later the new boat cracked at the mast step. The level of care I gave to each hull was way above and beyond anything that should be required. Both failed none the less. I was absolutely sick about these events. I fixed the later myself and sold the boat last year. I haven't been to this Forum since.

I cannot beleive this is still going on. Honestly, what kind of company knowingly continues to make a product that is known to fail? The lack of support and willingness to stand behind the product expressed here is alaming. The company instructing owners to do the repair themselves is nothing less than ridiculous. Is that what it means to be a Hunter Owner? Personally, I will never own another Hunter product and if anyone asks my opinion of the boat &/or company, I'll do my best to recommend they steer clear. How on earth is one supposed to enjoy these boats when the threat of failure is ever lurking? Read your Warranty Statement and hold the Company to it. They are bound to honor it. Contact your local BBB, your local District Attorney's office and any other Consumer Advocate organization available to you. Make Hunter fix your boat and if you've had enough by then, sell it.

 

[wundrbar]

Stress Cracking Ignored by Hunter Marine

I've only shared part of my story. I took them to small claims court in Ontario for the mysterious cracking due to cold weather. During the pre-trial, they hired a law firm to defend themselves claiming that I was at fault. They further insulted me in court by telling me that my 9 year old Hunter was only worth about $1,000 today (over 90% depreciation in 9 years). They later offered to fix my $1,000 boat but only if I paid all of the costs to ship it to Florida and back (that would cost me $3,000). When I asked them why they thought any intelligent human being would spend $3,000 to fix a defective boat that they claimed was worth only $1,000, they didn't reply. I'm not going to try to outspend them by taking this to trial. Rather, i am spending my free time warning others about this company and its defective products and shoddy practices. I have written comments in sailing forums, on-line Hunter product reviews, etc. I am now starting to write to consumer advocate media (like CBC's Marketplace). I encourage you to do the same. Or at least, let me know which media i should talk to in the US. I will stay on their case until they do the right thing. There is power in numbers. Let's help spread the word!!:cussing:

 

[Dave D]

Sounds like they have the same "Customer Service" team and policies as AT&T

 

[Allan Frey]

A while back, I wanted to take out my holding tank sensor to clean it. When I opened the small cover above the sensor, I found that a factory employee had cinched the band, which holds the tank in place, on top of the sensor. Thus, it was impossible to remove the sensor for routine maintenance.

I called Hunter and was told that they consider this acceptable workmanship. They told me to cut the band and to try to get another band around the tank and cinch it so that it is not on top of the sensor (of course, I don’t have equipment to install bands). I told them that there is no access and I probably would not be able to get another band around the tank. If that occurred, my making an access to the tank for banding would involve major surgery on the boat hull.

They said if I can not get another band on, that I should just use the boat without a band around the tank. They said that it is ok to leave the holding tank free to move around.

 

[wldrns1]

Stressed Out

Sailed my 170 today in windy conditions (about 18-20) and had some problems furling the jib when overpowered (main was reefed). Got back safely, but when putting the boat away, I noticed some cracks at the base of both the port and starboard cam cleat (pics to follow). Has anyone else had this problem? I'll probably plan to keep the jib furled until I get a chance to have it checked out - would hate for one to pull out on a windy day, that could be dangerous. Wonder if covered by warranty, the hull should not have cracked, the loads would not have been that great...

I'd like to provide some clarification here regarding my previous Post. I live in Central NY. We do have winters. My boat was always stored outside. When I purchased it, I had a custom Sunbrella (breathable fabric) cover in light gray made for the boat. It cost 850.00. I felt the expense worthwhile to protect my investment. When not sailing, the boat was cleaned and covered, mast taken down and stowed on the provided trailer mast supports with an additional support under the mast to the mast step to remove the 'bow' from the mast in this position. I also disconnected the winch from the bow eye to relieve any pressure on the hull it could have caused. The hull was supported only by the bunks and trailer yoke at the winch area. Snow was not allowed to accumulate during the winter.

Even with these efforts, I had cracking problems with both hulls. Yes, Hunter replaced the first one. No, I did not seek anything on the second one. I decided to do the repair myself and sell it.

This boat went from something I enjoyed to something I worried about. Every time I prepped to go for a sail, and upon my return, I found myself inspecting for cracks. This problem took away any enjoyment I hoped to have sailing it. When not in use, I'd wonder if the next time out I'd discover cracking has occured. For those not concerned with having to do this type of repair, enjoy. My experience with this boat ultimately caused way too much stress and worry for me personally. I didn't find ownership worthwhile.

 

[wundrbar]

These experiences are impossible to believe if I hadn't been through the same experiences myself. I've been a professional marketer for 2 dozen years now and can't believe that a company that is trying to sell yachts for several hundreds of thousands of dollars continues to treat customers this way and hides their heads in the sand when it comes to an obvious product defect.

 

[Franklin]

"Stress" cracks

You need to determine if these cracks are just cracks in the gelcoat or are they in the fiberglass below it too. Definately don't go drilling anything until you know for sure it's the fiberglass that is cracked.

If you sail your boat much at all, you will get cracks in your gelcoat. All that is, is a sign that the fiberglass was flexing there. fiberglass has unbeleavable flexing capability but gelcoat does not.

gelcoat is basically polyester resin. Resin is used with fiberglass to create the "fiberglass" that we know of. The resin brings the compression strength which fiberglass has none of. Fiberglass brings the tensile strength which resin doesn't have much of. I guess you can now understand that if the glass is layed correctly (not much resin) then it will be very flexible and also light (I bet all the glass in your boat only weights 50 lbs...it's the resin that weights so much), but because the gelcoat is nothing but resin, then it's not going to flex much, so when the boat does flex, you get the cracks.

In otherwords, if it doesn't look like the crack goes into the glass, I wouldn't worry about it, so just chip or grind off a little piece of gelcoat on the crack and examine the fiberglass. If you don't see a crack in the glass, just cover the crack with gelcoat, sand, wax and go about drinking a beer.

 

[wldrns1]

170 Construction

Franklin:

The 170 has no fiberglass. It's an injection mold over a foam core. The outer skin material is 'Luran S' made by BASF. Hunter has not disclosed what the cause of this cracking failure is. When I owned my boat, I talked with a BASF representative. I was told these failures were due to construction process problems rather than the material being defective. Maybe both Hunter & BASF are sharing the cost of Warranty expense. It would take some deep digging to find out.

Hunter continues to tout the ACP construction process on this model. Go to their website & watch the splash screens. I disagree with some Posters that cracking failures are isolated to a few model years. The two hulls I owned were 2002 and 2004 build years. Both failed. As I stated previously, some may not be concerned about this failure occurring and don't mind having to repair their boats. Because of this failure, my experience owning this boat was neither enjoyable nor worthwhile.

 

[wundrbar]

Franklin: I second wildrns1's comments. Check out my photos at the link I provided earlier. My cracks go right through the 1/4 inch Luran S and also the 3/4 inch foam core. And these cracks are several feet long. I don't feel safe in this boat!!!!!

 

[Franklin]

Ah...my mistake. Didn't know it wasn't fiberglass. It does sound like a serious problem.

 

[wldrns1]

Serious Problem? Finally! Somebody agrees!!!

Ah...my mistake. Didn't know it wasn't fiberglass. It does sound like a serious problem.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is. Yes, maybe Hunter is living up their warranty obligation in gross, serious cases. I guess if this boat cannot handle temperature changes, if that's what's causing this failure, it should be clearly stated in the owners manual to not subject it to the weather, rather than just recommending a light colored cover if the owner wants to cover it.

The local dealer leaves their boats out in the weather all winter here in Central NY. None are covered. I pointed out cracks to them in one of their new 170's. The Staff just looked at each other.

If the failure IS temperature related I think a dark, non-breathable, tight fitting cover probably would make the hull crack worse and sooner. The original Poster of this thread noted cracks at the cam cleats after a sail. Temperature related???

Yes, this boat has nice lines, a sexy swept-back open transom, is compfy with the cushions & is lively to sail. The question of Hunter support aside, it's too bad it's history shows it to be a frail vessel that has disappointed, and continues to disappoint, far too many owners.

 

[wldrns1]

Wundr...Your Pics

Oh I've had more than my share of cracks. But mine weren't caused by stress. They were caused by temperature change. It turns out the material Hunter uses to build the boats, BASF Luran S, can't take severe temperature fluctuations. Whydo you think your owners manual says you shouldn't cover your boat with a dark colored cover. Have you ever heard anything more ridiculous?! Check out the photos of my boat one day last December when the temperature dropped to -25 degrees.
http://picasaweb.google.ca/p.eisenschmid/CanonEPP070204?authkey=Gv1sRgCL3Zp-H_tP-cAw#
And there was no water in the hull! This has happened to dozens of other Hunter owners - check out the archived forum threads. Worst of all, Hunter won't accept responsibility for all of this. They just sit on their hands and blame their customers. I've taken this all the way up to their executive team.

Wanted to comment on your pics. Seeing them last week brought back bad memories of my very similar Hunter 170 experience. I got so worked up after seeing them I had to comment. Sorry to some that I haven't shut up. Have to say it's good to finally get some of it off my chest. For whatever reason I never did post my experience. As I'm sure you know, owning one of these boats can be a very consuming, unsettling affair.

Maybe another owner would see fit to repair this boat. I wouldn't nor do I have the skill nor would I enjoy doing such repairs. On top of that, what do you have to look forward to when it's all done? Any reasonable person should see that repeated cracking is highly likely. Why bother? What's next?

Hopefully your investment in this boat isn't substantial. I took a pretty good hit to make sure mine would sell. Other than the crack repairs I did at the mast step, the boat was mint with lots of extras to make the sale. I was not comfortable thinking what a buyer might be faced with down the road with this boat. The buyer had some insurance money to spend. I felt a little better about that vs someone who might have been scraping up funds. Good luck with yours. Hopefully these stories will give others pause.

 

[wundrbar]

wldrns1: Thanks for the support. I can't express how brutal my experience with Hunter has been. Their warranty manager offered no support until I took them to court and then only offered to fix it if I paid to have my boat shipped thousands of miles to Florida. Their VP Marketing and Sales, John Peterson, doesn't seem to think they have a problem. I wrote to the CEO, Rick Cerami over a month ago and he has yet to offer any response. Do you think they might be covering up a major manufacturing problem, hiding their heads in the sand and hoping this will all go away? Well I won't go away. I am going to keep repeating my experience to everyone who has the slightest interest in boatiing.
As for my losses, well I suppose I could fix it myself. But how comfortable do you think I would be having my family sail in a boat that's had a several 1" deep, 1/4" wide, 10 ft long cracks right through the hull? Maybe I will just trailer it in front of a high volume Hunter dealer with a sign warning people to think twice before they buy a Hunter!