I'm considering buying a late model Hunter (30+ feet), and have little knowledge of the no backstay arrangement that Hunter uses. The arrangement looks to me like it simply doesn't have the strength of a traditional rig. Are there any limitations on it's use? Have there been any reported structural failures? Thanks, Dave...
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No back stays on a lot of race boats.
Dave: Your preception is quite common. Take a look at many of the race boats (no fixed back stay). I have never hear of anyone having a problem with this setup. I don't think I would even think once about purchasing a boat without one.
Dave: Your preception is quite common. Take a look at many of the race boats (no fixed back stay). I have never hear of anyone having a problem with this setup. I don't think I would even think once about purchasing a boat without one.
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Bing
There can be.....
....problems if the rig is not kept tuned properly. We had a 410 in charter and the mast split, either because the rig was not tuned or because of charterer misuse. We may never know for sure which is the case, but nevertheless, it has turned us off boats without a backstay. Bing
....problems if the rig is not kept tuned properly. We had a 410 in charter and the mast split, either because the rig was not tuned or because of charterer misuse. We may never know for sure which is the case, but nevertheless, it has turned us off boats without a backstay. Bing
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Bill O'Donovan
Steve is right
The rigging is sound. I've got 5,000 miles on mine and sail with jib only in heavy wind. You're good.
The rigging is sound. I've got 5,000 miles on mine and sail with jib only in heavy wind. You're good.
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Paul
Strength isn't the issue
Any freshman engineering student could create a tripod shroud arrangement that exerted exactly the same stabilizing forces on a mast as a standard four-wire rig. In fact, I think that a tripod rig may be *stronger* than a standard rig due to reduced caternary forces. The real question is, do you want to sail it? Sailing a rig with swept-back shrouds is very different than a sailing a conventional rig. You can't push the boom out. You'll have an enormous full-roach mailsail to deal with. Some people like it a lot. Others don't. It's different. Paul sv Escape Artist h336
Any freshman engineering student could create a tripod shroud arrangement that exerted exactly the same stabilizing forces on a mast as a standard four-wire rig. In fact, I think that a tripod rig may be *stronger* than a standard rig due to reduced caternary forces. The real question is, do you want to sail it? Sailing a rig with swept-back shrouds is very different than a sailing a conventional rig. You can't push the boom out. You'll have an enormous full-roach mailsail to deal with. Some people like it a lot. Others don't. It's different. Paul sv Escape Artist h336
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Ken Lewis
Sailing the Hunter 410
We have been sailing a H410 for three seasons and have had no problems with the rig. We have sailed in 30 knots of wind with no problems and encountered a storm this past summer where we logged 48 knots on the windex (sails were not set). Regarding the downwind sailing. It is true that traditional sailing methods like wing on wing do not work well with these rigs. However, sailing dead downwind is very slow. We have been sailing our boat downwind on smaller angles with no problem. Jibing our H410 is very easy. Last season we added an assymetric to our sailing inventory and we use this sail alone if running downwind for any length of time. This is a good investment and also lots of fun. I'd recommend this addition to the sail inventory.
We have been sailing a H410 for three seasons and have had no problems with the rig. We have sailed in 30 knots of wind with no problems and encountered a storm this past summer where we logged 48 knots on the windex (sails were not set). Regarding the downwind sailing. It is true that traditional sailing methods like wing on wing do not work well with these rigs. However, sailing dead downwind is very slow. We have been sailing our boat downwind on smaller angles with no problem. Jibing our H410 is very easy. Last season we added an assymetric to our sailing inventory and we use this sail alone if running downwind for any length of time. This is a good investment and also lots of fun. I'd recommend this addition to the sail inventory.
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Ron Mehringer
B&R Rig
The aft swept spreaders and no backstay are characteristics of the B&R rig. (B&R are the initials of the designers who popularized the concept.) It is absolutely structuraly sound to support a mast from 3 points instead of 4. Look at guyed communications towers, they all have guy wires on just 3 sides and they can be well over 1,000' tall. So structural integrity should not be your worry. The real question is sailability. No running backstay means you can't use that technique for flattening the sail. The aft swept spreaders mean you can't wing the boom out to 90 degrees. However, no backstay means you can have a nice full roach main, which is the aerodynamic shape of choice. For cruising, I like the B&R. For racing, the traditional rig is probably better. Ron Mehringer H26 Hydro-Therapy
The aft swept spreaders and no backstay are characteristics of the B&R rig. (B&R are the initials of the designers who popularized the concept.) It is absolutely structuraly sound to support a mast from 3 points instead of 4. Look at guyed communications towers, they all have guy wires on just 3 sides and they can be well over 1,000' tall. So structural integrity should not be your worry. The real question is sailability. No running backstay means you can't use that technique for flattening the sail. The aft swept spreaders mean you can't wing the boom out to 90 degrees. However, no backstay means you can have a nice full roach main, which is the aerodynamic shape of choice. For cruising, I like the B&R. For racing, the traditional rig is probably better. Ron Mehringer H26 Hydro-Therapy
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Dave
Thanks
Many thanks to all who responded to my query. I'm not going to worry about it and will probably buy the Hunter (a 306 or 326). Now to figure out how to pay for it!! Dave...
Many thanks to all who responded to my query. I'm not going to worry about it and will probably buy the Hunter (a 306 or 326). Now to figure out how to pay for it!! Dave...
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