strange broker conduct...

[MitchM]

comments, please: in the past 40 years, we have sold three boats , 2 rv s and many cars ourselves without any broker involvement. a boat we have currently advertised resulted in this call yesterday:
BROKER: "Hi, i am a broker with X brokerage in CITY. I have a buyer who is VERY interested in your boat, and we'd like to schedule a survey ASAP. My buyer has time constraints and wants to do this deal very quickly. I have an escrow deposit from him of 10 % on account, since the other deal for this buyer fell through. Can you send me pictures of the boat and names of surveyors in your area..?" "
ME: " what happened with the first deal ?"
HIM: "The boat did not pass survey."
ME: "If you are now buyers' agent, how a re you planning to get paid should your buyer buy my boat ?"
HIM: "I have his 10 % on deposit.."

Standard brokered boat buys proceed as follows: Seller lists with selling broker for 10% fee . Buyer, and/or buyer 's broker , contacts seller or seller's broker. buyer tenders offer 'conditioned on satisfactory survey. ' if seller accepts the offer, 10% down is deposited in broker's escrow account. the survey and sea trial then occur. if results of survey/sea trial are satisfactory, buyer completes payment to fulfill purchase contract and broker's 10% fee is paid to seller from escrow account when contract for purchase is completed. . if buyer unreasonably backs out, broker keeps the 10% fee , not the seller. if buyer backs out for good reason, entire fee is returned to buyer... buyer then then commences negotiations with seller # 2, etc...

 

[Jackdaw]

My buyer has time constraints and wants to do this deal very quickly.

SCAM.

That sentence was lifted directly out of the scammer's handbook. Create a sense of urgency that makes you want to skip routine checks.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Mitch,

I remember a broker scam several years ago that sounds similar to this.
First, did you list your boat & where? Was it online so anyone could see it?

As I remember, the scam at some point asked the seller to send $$.
To me, this sounds fishy thus far. They wait to set the hook!

Do a background check on the broker & his company. Remember, info is power.
Do not believe a blind email until you have thoroughly vetted them.

CR

 

[Gunni]

Is there a question in there? Around these parts, broker fees are not set in stone, and they are paid from the proceeds of sale. A 'good faith' deposit assures the seller that the buyer is serious.

 

[kito]

Buyer wants to do this deal "very quickly"....kind of a red flag imo. I would like to know why the buyer is in such a big hurry to buy your boat.

 

[MitchM]

my point is that a legitimate broker will not just transfer his alleged buyer's alleged 10% deposit from one boat to another without a signed contract.

 

[CloudDiver]

Must be a Nigerian Broker...

 

[woodster]

cash in your pocket is KING.......all others contact the credit manager whose name is Helen Waite......can you say Scam

 

[Sailm8]

SCAM for sure

 

[Gunni]

I could make the case that the buyer has decided that your make and model is the boat for him and the broker is attempting to keep a sale after another boat fell through. The buyer has the option to allow his broker to keep good-faith money, especially if the broker is telling him he has found another boat. You could be looking at a very motivated broker, representing a very impulsive ready buyer.

 

[JohnVTX]

Nope. Been here done this. If you respond he will want you to send 1500 shipping funds. As soon as he receives it, he will wire the rest if money to you.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Mitch,

The guys nailed it pal. It's probably a scam.
Some even have you ship your boat that they will set up promising payment on delivery.
Your boat goes away, it's gone & you're out of pocket.

Things to make you safe:
A) Do your background check on both brokerage & broker. Always stay local.
B) If there is an intent to buy based on survey, there will be paperwork.
C) Most important, YOU pick the surveyor based on boaters YOU talk to & not the broker.
Never let the broker pick the surveyor. Remember, the surveyor should
work independently & ONLY for you. Remind him that it is YOUR signature on the check.

I found out the hard way years ago. When I discovered that the surveyor & broker were running a scam,
I used the old Philly approach. I showed up at the surveyor's house unannounced with two friends.
The surveyor under fear re-did a REAL survey. This saved me 3 thousand dollars. The broker & surveyor
were later prosecuted by the state & both did a year in prison based on my experience. Apparently they were doing this alot.

Remember the adage, "Buyer Beware."

CR

 

[Gunni]

The OP is selling a boat, not buying one. Who is their right mind would surrender their property (a boat) without first receiving full payment?

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Gunni,

I thought I was covering both sides.

CR

 

[JohnVTX]

The OP is selling a boat, not buying one. Who is their right mind would surrender their property (a boat) without first receiving full payment?

You would be amazed how many people do this. That is why scammers keep doing it.

 

[Meriachee]

Make them come and see it, and tell them that without direct involvement of the actual buyer that you are adding a 20% penalty to the price. Watch how quickly they agree. The preferred method is PayPal, and after you get the "confirmation", they start sending threatening emails about how you've ripped them off and need to send them the balance "right now" by Western Union.
I had this scam happen when I sold my last truck. After stringing them along for a bit, they even went so far as to open a fraud file at the RCMP, or so the email said. Too bad the letterhead said "RPMC". That was a little bit of a giveaway.

 

[Gunni]

So maybe we need to review Boat Buyin' 101. You trade howdy-doo's, pictures, logs, sell price. Arrange for a walk-through. Any proper purchase will be preceded by a signed offer by the buyer, who can stipulate offer is subject to satisfactory survey, and should include "good faith money" to assure the seller that this is a real offer. If the offer is accepted the seller signs off and makes the vessel available for inspection and survey. Money is transferred to seller's bank and only when confirmed in deposit is the vessel released to the buyer. There are some other details like Bill of Sale, Documentation/title, but that is mostly for the buyer's benefit.

But there is absolutely no risk in entertaining the advances of a buyer's broker as long as the basic steps outlined above are observed.

 

[Gunni]

...and while it might be of interest how the buyer's broker is going to get paid in a no seller's broker deal, it really is none of the seller's business. He may try to bargain you down on price, but he can't make you sell, that will be your decision.

 

[kito]

After re-reading the OP, the broker only asked for pictures and a list of surveyors in the area. Why may this be a scam?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Nope. Been here done this. If you respond he will want you to send 1500 shipping funds. As soon as he receives it, he will wire the rest if money to you.

Or...he'll send you a "certified check" that looks so real that even your bank won't question it. It may even include an additional amount to cover shipping. Your bank accepts the check as good...you pay to ship the boat. Two-three weeks later the check bounces because neither the account or the bank it was written on exists. All the info the "broker" gave you about himself and the buyer are bogus too. So not only did you "donate" your boat to a scammer, but you're also out the money you paid to ship it.