Storm windows....

dougpol1 · Mar 16, 2012

On 03/16/2012 10:18 AM, John Denney wrote:

tomfentonvega2977beowulf · Mar 16, 2012

How urgent do you think your window replacement is, John? I understand why
you would want to strengthen the windows for an ocean crossing, but if I
remember right you aren't planning that until next Jan at the earliest. Is
it the view of the group that Vega windows need strengthening to sail
European coastal waters, including Biscay? I'd like to know, since we
expect to be crossing Biscay mid June.

Beowulf seems to have the original windows. Preparation for crossing the
Atlantic seems to have been to carry pieces of 1 inch think marine ply cut
to size and drilled to be bolted to cover any window that got broken.

Tom Fenton, Beowulf V2977

johnadenney · Mar 16, 2012

Hi Tom, I just took advice from various sources that the windows may
not be as strong as they could be... I think it is because they are
fitted in rubber seals and may "pop" out? I really don't know if that
is right or not but I thought I would get them done whilst the boat is
in my shed and I have all my tools around me. I think I would prefer
to fit them semi- permanently - knowing me, the day I needed them,
they would be in the locker!

The plastic is only ?50 from Ebay and it is a relatively easy job to
do - I won't bother with the smaller ones - or should I?

I really have no experience of how powerful a wave might be - or if
one could pop open a window..? I just read it was a good idea
somewhere! If I had the money and they were available I would buy the
really nice ones from Steve.

Vega1447 · Mar 16, 2012

Hi John.
I only get out for a sail on Sundays - and I count myself fortunate.

At the risk of imposing on your privacy; how do you get away with giving your Vega the "love" that we all would like to give ours?

Enviously,
John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

johnadenney · Mar 16, 2012

Laughing!!! my wife has similar thoughts!!!

I bought a derelict old farm about 10 years ago and what with
renovations on that and a full time job I just about burnt myself
out! Decision was made to do something just for fun - hence the
Vega.... Unfortunately I had just about spent up on the renovations
so I had to be VERY economical on the purchase price of the yacht -
cost me £4000 and I knew I had a lot of work to do on it...... boy was
that an understatement!
Anyway, I took early retirement, hence the amount of time I can spend
on the boat and luckily enough I have a great big ex cattle shed to
work in.. luxury! Never been happier (apart from the combi episode
and losing the little bolt out of the prop). I have had a couple of
days off and I am feeling guilty! Back to the grindstone tomorrow.

I am so grateful to all the kind and knowledgeable people on here..
and it is somehow "satisfying" to share experiences!

Cabin Boy John

dougpol1 · Mar 16, 2012

On 03/16/2012 12:15 PM, Tom Fenton wrote:

dougpol1 · Mar 16, 2012

I think there is almost no chance the windows in a Vega will beak if
they stay in place. I suspect there is a possibility they could be
driven inward by a crashing wave since they are held in by a rubber gasket.
I would think that four wood clamps mounted on the cabinsides inside the
boat if they were cut out to clear the rubber gaskets but held tight
against the inside of the glass would keep the glass from being driven
inward. There is nothing wrong with the windows other than they may
need a little internal braseing. I would be curiouse to know if any
Vega windows have ever been broken by seas or even having been thrown
off a wave? If a window got knocked out it would quite possibly be
broken when it hits the cabin sole. I would not loose any sleep over
the windows but might make some clamps like I have described to lock the
windows in. Just in case. The small windows are not big enough to be
pushed inward buy water pressure if the boat did fall off a wave. The
main cabin windows are likely too narrow to receive much of a blow in
such a condition as well. One thing I have learned over the years in
ocean sailing is to fix anything that worries you. Not because your
worst fears are likely to come true but because worry will cause you to
make bad assumptions.
I sunk a boat one time that was filling through the builge pump. I
had turned it on and thought it was pumping out. Someone else turn it
off. We had bumped a hard bottom and I though I had broken a weld seam.
I thinking the builge pump was pumping out and that there must have
beena big hole in the hull. There was by then enough water in the boat I
couldn't tell where the water was coming from. I was diving in the bilge
with engine oil in my eyes and could not see what the problem was.
There was no siphon break on the bulge pump. An absolute comedy of
errors. I sunk a perfectly sound boat. It was all because I mistrusted
a slightly questionable weld seam. Doug

pjacobs55 · Mar 16, 2012

In "Berserk: My Voyage to Antarctica in a Twenty-seven Foot Sailboat" David Mercy writes of a window blown in while in the South Atlantic,

I seem to recall in "Out of the Blue" Anne Miller's "Rupert" lost a window on an Atlantic crossing and she plugged the hole using the head door ... but my memory could be wrong !

In my Vega (a Series I) the glass size is slightly smaller than the hole, so only the rubber gasket holds it in. But later Vegas had the glass overlapping the edges of the hole and a different rubber profile to hold it in. This would be my preffered setup for wave impact.

Check Message #16938 for links to pictures of the two different rubber profiles and related messages.

I wonder what Matt Rutherford is using in his "Around the Americas" voyage?

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

tomfentonvega2977beowulf · Mar 17, 2012

I had a good look at Matt Rutherford's website yesterday to see what reference there was to windows. In his first blog post he refers to replacing them, but gives no details. There is one photo on the site which gives quite a good view of the windows but you cannot see any profile, and it certainly looks as if the Perspex or whatever overlaps the edges. I thought I had seen a link to his fitting out, a few months ago, but I cannot find it now. Tom

Tom Fenton, Beowulf V2977

stevebirch2002 · Mar 17, 2012

Hi

Series I and Series II Vegas share the same window system with the glass being smaller than the aperture. Series III Vega changed to a different rubber profile that meant the glass was bigger than the aperture and was held outside the fibreglass. Series III had the MD7A as original engine fit and from about V3100 onwards (Approx).

Cheers

Steve B

gurkin42 · Mar 17, 2012

HI Steve I hope by plastic you mean lexan and waves of sea water are one ton per meter squared John C

SVFlyAway · Mar 17, 2012

There was some talk previously using plastic for the windows. This is what
Chuck and Laura Rose did on LeaLea. I took some pictures of their boat when
I was in Friday Harbor, WA back in September 2010 (I saw them moving into
the marina as we were on our boat). Of course we went out to dinner that
night. Anyway, I shot a picture of the fuel system as I am upgrading to a
similar to LeaLea's and also their side glass. I will attach a close-up of
LeaLea's side glass.

Also, in the blog about SV Rebellion, the Vega i am sure many of you have
been watching as it travels, there is a picture of their using a plastic
over the windows. From what the technical article says, I believe they left
the original windows and put plastic over them (something was mentioned
about plastic leaking I think). Here is the link to that article (this is
the English version of their site, i guess they some of the material in
Dutch or even other languages). Of course the changes made to Rebellion
were significant. This link should take you to the home page, then go to
the tab Info Rebellion and then to Yacht.

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vegatern · Mar 17, 2012

Peter is right about Berserk and Rupert losing window glass. It is the weight of the boat pressing on the glass when she lays over hard that pushes the window in, or so I understand. Mr. Perfect was equipped with bolted on plywood over his windows when he sailed to Hawaii. I think there are pictures of that in his Youtube videos. I know some have replaced the existing window and gasket by bolting a piece of Lexan over the opening. The bolt holes in the Lexan should be a bit oversize because the Lexan and the fiberglass apparently contract and expand at different rates, and the caulk used is silicone because, if I recall, other caulks attack Lexan. Lexan is stronger than most acrylic and won't degrade in the sun. Acrylic will go yellow in a year or so.

The previous owner of the Tern made attractive and permanent storm covers for her by cutting Lexan to the shape of the opening, but oversize, and bolting it to a 1" strip of Lexan that runs around the perimeter of the window. The strip and sheet were clamped together and the final shape was worked out with jigsaw and sanders. The original gasket and glass was left in place. This was done 14 years ago and it is now time to replace the scratched Lexan but if I get another 14 years I should be happy. Doug is correct in that it is not possible to clean the haze off the facing surfaces, though that hasn't bothered me much.

Another possibility, both simple and cheap, is to cut a plywood blank that would cover the opening from the outside. Drill two or three holes for bolts and install wood cleats on the bolts. If you needed it, place the plywood over the opening, turn the cleats across the window on the inside and tighten the bolts. Of course the odds that it would ever be needed are probably very long, and it just gives you something else that you don't have room to carry.

Craig #1519 Tern

tiempo2010 · Mar 17, 2012

Craig

Acrylic (Plexiglass) will outlast polycarbonate (Lexan) by a large margin.
Lexan scratches easier and will degrade in UV unless specifically coated.
All major hatch builders use acrylic (Lewmar, Goiot, Atkins & Hoyle are
examples) and Select Plastics (the largest hatch repair/restoration company
in the world) uses acrylic as well. Yes Lexan is stronger but acrylic in
the thicknesses used is plen5ty strong enough. The military and coast guard
use Lexan but they also change it for new each 3 years - tax dollars at
work.

Next to me in the marina is a Spencer 35 built in 1966. The larger windows
are plexiglass and are original. They haven't turned yellow. With the
exception of a few small scratches they look like new. Lexan would have
showed crazing after only a few years.

vegatern · Mar 17, 2012

Thanks for correcting me. I will keep it in mind when I order new material. Craig

tim_klynn · Mar 20, 2012

I'm not a big fan of the 'bolt over top' look for storm windows.

I am thinking about making some patterns and having some bronze window frames cast. There are a lot of small foundries around here that could do the work.
Probably go with a flanged outside, with a recessed rabbett to allow a somewhat flush set of the glass. Also thinking about making it so that I could do the glass as a double paned affair
to minimize condensation. I'd also like to make a couple of small windows for the forward cabin roof area so I could see ahead from inside. We'll see how far this idea gets this year.....-Tim
________________________________
From: Peter peter@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:41 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Storm windows....

In "Berserk: My Voyage to Antarctica in a Twenty-seven Foot Sailboat" David Mercy writes of a window blown in while in the South Atlantic,

I seem to recall in "Out of the Blue" Anne Miller's "Rupert" lost a window on an Atlantic crossing and she plugged the hole using the head door ... but my memory could be wrong !

In my Vega (a Series I) the glass size is slightly smaller than the hole, so only the rubber gasket holds it in. But later Vegas had the glass overlapping the edges of the hole and a different rubber profile to hold it in. This would be my preffered setup for wave impact.

Check Message #16938 for links to pictures of the two different rubber profiles and related messages.

I wonder what Matt Rutherford is using in his "Around the Americas" voyage?

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

johnadenney · Mar 21, 2012

Yes, I have used 8mm perspex, which I think is a trade name for
acrylic sheet? Hopefully that will be strong enough! I bought some
neoprene strip to use as seals ...pic here.... just waiting for the
bolts to arrive and then I shall fit them. I am not too happy with
the "aesthetics" but they should be practical! Double glazing - posh
or what!
New sails arrived this morning.... not much more to do (famous last
words!)

https://flic.kr/p/bEDWkB

pjacobs55 · Mar 21, 2012

Heavy, high, really expensive.

Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.

120 Exchange Street

P.O. Box 7206

Portland ME 04112

207/772-2191

Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain material that is confidential
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TJBurkett · Mar 21, 2012

Check out the replacement windows that Steve B. sells. A little pricy but worth it. This was one of the first "improvements" I made - havent leaked in six years and look great. The windows frames sandwich the fiberglass and I think would be difficult to knock out.