Storm!! When do you go to bare poles?

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David Foster

3 Storms

Henk, I'm at our "granny condo" and Heavy Weather" is back in Mentor - but here is my memory: One of the storms was in the south Atlantic, off Brazil. One was in the Coral Sea. And one was the Queen's day storm, which moved between 15 and 30 degrees south. Most of the fleet returning to the Islands after ducking the typhoon season in New Zealand were between 20 and 30 degrees. All of the storms lasted longer than 24 hours. There are some great false color pictures in the book showing maximum wave heights worldwide as observed by satellites. They certainly back up your assertion that the low latitudes usually have much lower waves than the higher latitudes. I'm sure you would enjoy a look at the new edition. David Lady Lillie
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I Know Of A 420

that hit a submerged pipeline full tilt. Lots of damage, but the keel stayed on and it floated. Also a 34 that did the same thing. Result the same. Did you see the picture of the 410 in Australia that was driven aground? Bent rudder and keel, but stayed together. Real experiences trump speculation. Both cases were just like hitting a container or a log offshore. Rick D.
 
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Tom

Rick do you still have the link to the picture of

410 in Australia that was driven aground. I'd be very interested. Just to look at. The fact is even the best most expensive boats are not immune to a container floating out in the ocean, you might as well just be driven up on some rocks....at least then you are typically near land and rescue, as opposed to being in the middle of the ocean & 3000 miles away from everything I did see a big Hunter (don't remember what size but over 40') that was in the Mystic Shipyard Marina when I stopped over in Mid Aug 2001. It had a *Huge* Bend on a keel winglet & chunk taken out of its keel from cutting a corner too close on its way in a narrow passage going into towards Stonington. I think they were going pretty fast (6 knots?) I can't totally recall, but I think the rudder was broke off also, but I can't remember if all of it or only part of it was. When I was talking to someone from the marina and he said the rudder was designed to shear off.....I'm pretty sure the top half of the rudder was still there. I wish I took pictures, but I do remember that the boat wasn't in danger of sinking but had to be towed in. Not sure what damage occurring inside, but I think he said they might have to do something around the keel bolts ...probably just for insurance purposes. The funny thing about this episode was that this was training Sail with a Licensed Skipper and the crew was not beginners. Not sure but I think the Skipper went below for just a moment when the helmsman misjudged something.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Don't Have, Tom. Check the Archives

nm Rick D.
 
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Clyde

Hubris or self-fulfilling prophecy?

Is it hubris or self-fulfilling prophecy if you name your sailboat "BROKEN HOVEL" and try to sail it to Hawaii from the Pacific Northwest during the winter gale season with only a crew of two? News from the U.S. Coast Guard web site: COAST GUARD RESPONDS TO SAILBOAT IN DISTRESS U.S. Coast Guard is currently escorting a 65 foot sailboat in transit to Coos Bay, Ore. in 30-foot swells and 50-knot winds. Coast Guard watch standers received a call from the master of the Sailing Vessel BROKEN HOVEL which was en route to Hawaii when it encountered inclement weather overnight. Two HH-65 Dolphin helicopter crews from Coast Guard Air Station North Bend and a three rescue boat crews from Coast Guard Station Coos Bay are currently escorting the vessel and the two crew members aboard to the safety of Coos Bay. The vessel sustained damage and her sails were torn from the rough conditions. Pacific Northwest news: Saturday, December 14, 2002 Coast Guard warns of heavy coastal surf SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF The Coast Guard has issued a heavy coastal surf advisory for this weekend, warning boaters and beachcombers alike to beware of high winds and breaking surf in excess of 25 feet. A severe storm caused by a strong low-pressure weather system is behind the warning that the boating public pay close attention to local weather forecasts and that those visiting the coast be aware of the changed conditions, said officials with the 13th Coast Guard District serving the Pacific Northwest. The Coast Guard yesterday assisted a 65-foot sailboat 30 miles south of Coos Bay, Ore., that had been headed for Hawaii in 35-foot swells and 70-knot winds. The sailboat suffered heavy damage to its mast and sails. "Be aware of your boat capabilities in bad weather," said Lt.Cmdr. Andrew Connor of the 13th Coast Guard District Office of Search and Rescue, which has headquarters in Seattle. Boaters were urged to have essential safety gear in working order, including life vests, flares and communication devices. The Coast Guard also is warning those who intends to walk along the shore to watch storms to be aware of high waves and developing weather. Eleven people walking along the shore in northern California last month were caught off guard by high waves that sneaked in and swept them into the ocean. Four drowned. The Coast Guard broadcasts weather conditions from the National Weather Service on VHF, Channel 16. Fair Winds. Clyde
 
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Terry Arnold

Hitting Lili and Isadore flotsam in the Tenn-Tom

Bay horse, (79 H33) left a hidey hole on Bay Springs Lake, upper end of the Tenn-Tom immediately following the rains acccompanying Lili on Oct 5 and traversed the whole of the Tenn-Tom, Warrior and Mobile river systems going through a lot of floating debris left not only by Lili but also by the earlier Isadore storm. Both storms had pretty much dumped on the watershed and there was a lot of floating debris. I managed to miss most but did strike 3 large logs, floating so flush with the surface that they were missed in the glare. Each time the log struck at the stem, was carried down, struck the keel very hard, and then appeared past the stern, missing the rudder each time. No time to react after the initial strike since the boat was moving 6 1/2-7mph and each time there was an anticipation of contact with the rudder or propeller which never came. The last log, in upper Mobile bay did break my speedo wheel. The stem and forward edge of the keel are sloped enough to push the debris down rather than just collide. (See photo) I believe that if the thing collided with was too heavy to push down, the sloping stem would act to ride the boat up over it. I am left with a renewed appreciation for the Cherubini H33 design.
 

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Jun 5, 1997
659
Coleman scanoe Irwin (ID)
How to avoid breaking one's hovel.......

I don't like to play Monday morning quarterback and certainly don't want to criticize the skipper and crew of "Broken Hovel" without knowing the full story. However, there are some important weather forecasting and navigation issues at stake here and maybe it would be useful to take a closer look at this particular situation. Not knowing "Broken Hovel's" departure port, but assuming that their trip started somewhere along the Oregon coast only 1-2 days before they ran into these problems, it is clear that they must have missed the normally highly reliable forecasts of these severe lows (that come spinning down from somewhere around the arctic circle and may even tend to penetrate a little further and faster into the Variables in an El Nino year winter season with relatively weak Pacific Highs). The attached image compares the COAMP(combined ocean/atmoshphere mesoscale prediction) model-predicted pressures and wind velocities 48 hours before midnight last evening (top half) versus the current, validated prediction (bottom half). As one can see, there was not any doubt early Thursday morning that a BIG BAD STORM was going to roll in. In fact, I find the similarity between the two images very impressive indeed. With this kind of a publicly accessible forecast, they should not have left. Although I don't have access to the NOAA-NWS SSB weatherfax predictions from several days ago, there is little doubt in my mind that the 48- and 96-hr surface analysis maps would have shown a similar grim picture. So, even if they left home several days earlier and could have missed the type of forecast data shown in the attached image they still should have been able to consult their weatherfaxes. For those who may not be familiar with these types of long-range weather models, I have attached a link to the FNMOC (Navy Meteorological Operations Center) website where one can run the large-scale (1 degree resolution) NOGAPS and GFS (a combination of the former MRF and AVN) models for any area in the world up to 144 hours ahead and the middle scale (27 km resolution) COAMP model for the East Pacific (plus a few other important areas) up to 48 hours ahead. When "Rivendel II" needed to find one of the rare time windows in the fierce Tradewinds along the Barrier Reef in June 2000 (a strong La Nina year!)I finally was able to locate a 4-5 day window that all models agreed upon and we made a successful escape from that lee shore for the 2-week passage to Vanuatu. The first attempt had been less successful, however, as the window closed too fast and we had to return to the last Queensland port accessible to us (i.e. Cairns) after bucking the 30-35 knot Trades and Barrier Reef seas for 4 nighte and 450 NM (as my good friend and sailing buddy George Kornreich on this board can confirm from first-hand experience). One more little detail: The GIF originals of each of the two color charts sections in the image are only 12 kilobytes. This means that you can have a friend or family member at home prepare, cut and e-mail this type of image to you at sea if you happen to have e-mail on board. It is especially easy to do so if you are not limited to text-only (e.g. with Inmarsat C) but can send and receive little images (e.g. with Iridium or Mini-M Inmarsat phones). Have fun! Flying Dutchman PS: For persistent doubters of my "outside the cyclone season offshore passages between 23.5 N and S tend to be a walk in the park compared to coastal sailing at higher latitudes" credo: compare the coastal leg with an intertropical offshore passage to Hawaii in this situation!!
 

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