storm jib

Oct 30, 2019
1,021
What are people's thoughts on the perfect storm jib size for a Vega?

I've been considering a Gale Sail (which slips over a furled genoa with
a special sleeve), but the smallest is 60 square feet, and I'm wondering
if smaller might be better (I would think a sailmaker could sew a
similar sleeve for a smaller storm jib). I'd rather be underpowered in
moderately heavy winds than overpowered in really heavy winds -- so
maybe something smaller than 60 square feet might be better?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Tom Lochhaas
Vega 1240, Allegro
Newburyport, MA 01950
USA
 
May 9, 2011
1,000
Tom,

I recently found bought a used storm jib from Minney's in Ca. of about 50sf.
17'luff, 8' foot and 5' max width(high cut). They are constructed of very
heavy material and have a heavy 1/8" wire luff with hanks added. Note that
Per Brohall in the Vega Manual mentions being out in a 38kt wind and being
able to sail to windward @4kt. and to tack "if conditions are right". Reason
I decided to try a storm jib is Per Brohall's discussion and also being
caught out in 30kt when my 50% rolled furling jib was about useless(also I
got a good deal on the jib @$135).

www.Sailnet.com has a toughtful discussion of storm jibs in one of their
archived articles from about 3 mo. ago now in which gale sail was discussed.
Not recommended to use gale sail over roller furling due to loss of
efficiency from to turbulence.

I plan on adding an eyehook about 30" back from stem and reinforcing deck
underneath with
oak board. I'm hoping the that the storm jib's heavy wire luff is stiff
enough to fly it loose luffed from the existing bail on the mast(Minney's
seems to think this will work). If not am going to add a removable inner
forstay of 3/16" kelvar line material. My worst fear is overloading the
deck beam due to additional tension even though I have reinforced it. I
believe this will be easier to set inboard than at the stem.

Good Luck

Steve Wallace, V.710, Windhover
 
May 21, 2004
10
...looking for a storm jib for Procrastinator - can't put it off any
longer. Anyone in the States or Canada have one for sale?
Recommendations?

Paul Brown
Procrastinator
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
Love the "pun" Paul!!!

pbrowkblak pbrowkblak@... wrote: ...looking for a storm jib for Procrastinator - can't put it off any
longer. Anyone in the States or Canada have one for sale?
Recommendations?

Paul Brown
Procrastinator
 
Jan 28, 2001
694
I once bought a book on overcoming procastination. Never got around to
reading it though.
Try Ebay for the storm jib. There is a guy selling a jib for smaller boats.
He is a sailmaker and makes other sizes. Scroll down to see his offerings.
$140 for our size boat. Walt
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
What dimensions for a Vega storm jib?Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
 
Mar 28, 2003
27
Just got around to looking at your post...

From an earlier search on this site for messages re: storm jib, I recorded:
Luff - 14', Foot - 9' 2", Leech - 10'-3". (Message 8009).

Paul Brown
Procrastinator
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
 
Jan 28, 2001
694
Sounds kind of large. Neil Pryde rep told me size should be around 1/3 of
working jib. Series 1 working jib was 150 sq ft. So around 50 sq ft. I need
to go out of town for a few days. I'll measure mine when I get back. Walt
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
Hi folks!

I can't remember what the recommendation is for the MD6A (or any motor for that matter) while under sail. Is it recommended to put the engine in reverse, or in forward?

Thanks
Chris
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
For the combi "gearbox" at least - fully reversed as the rudder blades are
rotated so that blades are nearly parallel to the direction of flow (I'm
sure there is a better way to put it).

I cant say I've noticed any sudden increase in speed though...

Downside is that you might forget to revert to neutral before starting - a
friend tells me that his MD7A still started, I haven't tried it with my
MD6A. I expect it might not start easily - not sure if it would do any
harm?

John

Vega 1447 Breakaway

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
Thanks John,

I no longer have the combi gearbox, but I would imagine that the same rules would apply. I think we used to use reverse on the Sabre?!!?!?!?

Thanks again for the response! ;)
Chris

"John A. Kinsella" John.Kinsella@... wrote: For the combi "gearbox" at least - fully reversed as the rudder blades are
rotated so that blades are nearly parallel to the direction of flow (I'm
sure there is a better way to put it).

I cant say I've noticed any sudden increase in speed though...

Downside is that you might forget to revert to neutral before starting - a
friend tells me that his MD7A still started, I haven't tried it with my
MD6A. I expect it might not start easily - not sure if it would do any
harm?

John

Vega 1447 Breakaway

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
Would anyone have any pictures or suggestions on a simple and effective Jiffy Reef System for the Vega. My sails have the reefing points, but the boom doesn't even have an outhaul for the clew. I have rigged a sufficient one for now, but would like to install a new and better system. I just don't want to invest a lot of time and money in a system and then two or three weeks later...say.."oh, why didn't I do it that way instead"? Anybody out there have one of those moments??? :)

Thanks
Chris
 
Oct 2, 2005
465
I know there are a lot of ways to do this but here's one. On the
Tern the reefing line starts at the outhaul with a bowline around the
boom, up to the first reef cringle in the leech, down to the boom to a
cheek block, (set a bit astern of the leech cringle, so the foot
tightens) down the boom through a couple of eye straps ( to control
slack) to another cheek block on the boom at the goose neck, up and
through the first reef cringle in the luff, down to a swivel block at
the mast step bail, through a deck organizer on the coach roof, back
through a hole drilled in the splash guard at the dodger and finishes
in a rope clutch. Three reefs on alternate sides of the boom.
When I bought the boat the line went to a block suspended from the
luff cringle but I had problems keeping the cringle parallel with the
mast. By passing through the cringle the pull seems more natural for
the sail, but there is more friction when pulling in the reef and the
line needs to be "helped" along a bit.
The halyard, which also comes back to the cockpit through the deck
organizer, passes through a rope clutch, to a winch on the coach roof
at the companionway. A few inches behind the winch I installed a cam
cleat. After I was satisfied with the set up I marked the halyard
where the taut halyard fit in the cam cleat when reefed.
To pull in a reef just set up the topping lift (also to the cockpit),
put the halyard's mark in the cam cleat, luff up and let go the
halyard rope clutch. The sail drops to the predetermined mark. Pull in
the slack in the reef line through it's clutch and cinch it down.
Adjust the main halyard a bit and fall off. The slack in the other
reef lines needs to be collected now. I don't tie in the points
(though I might if I had all three reefs in, never have) but I
sometimes put a sail tie through the cringle in the leech for backup.
The sail was made with reinforced slits at the foot (just above the
bolt rope) where the other two reef lines pass around the boom below
their respective leech cringles but some other way to attach the line
could be worked out. This beats crawling out to the mast, is quick,
and since I prefer to sail generally upright, I don't hesitate to reef.
Craig Tern #1519
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
That sounds great Craig! I found a Jiffy Reefing Kit that is made by Harken for boats up to 27' (the magic number I guess)! It does exactly what you have described here and with the single line. It seemed to me that it would add a bit more friction to the system, but it sure beats crawling up forward in a blow! Here is the kit:

Two questions (maybe three actually ):

1.) How did you drill the holes through the splash guard, and have you noticed the cockpit getting wet because of it?

2.) Did you have to drill more holes through the guard to accommodate the main halyard, topping lift, deck organizer, etc...?

3.) How do you then reef in the second or third reef points after the first one has been tucked? Do you have to do those by hand? I have two reef points and was confused about how I would reef in the second with a system like this?

Any pictures of your set-up Craig?

Thanks so much for the great description. I will more than likely do this. This was exactly what I was looking for.

Cheers!
Chris & Kerin
V#1865

vegatern vegatern@... wrote: I know there are a lot of ways to do this but here's one. On the
Tern the reefing line starts at the outhaul with a bowline around the
boom, up to the first reef cringle in the leech, down to the boom to a
cheek block, (set a bit astern of the leech cringle, so the foot
tightens) down the boom through a couple of eye straps ( to control
slack) to another cheek block on the boom at the goose neck, up and
through the first reef cringle in the luff, down to a swivel block at
the mast step bail, through a deck organizer on the coach roof, back
through a hole drilled in the splash guard at the dodger and finishes
in a rope clutch. Three reefs on alternate sides of the boom.
When I bought the boat the line went to a block suspended from the
luff cringle but I had problems keeping the cringle parallel with the
mast. By passing through the cringle the pull seems more natural for
the sail, but there is more friction when pulling in the reef and the
line needs to be "helped" along a bit.
The halyard, which also comes back to the cockpit through the deck
organizer, passes through a rope clutch, to a winch on the coach roof
at the companionway. A few inches behind the winch I installed a cam
cleat. After I was satisfied with the set up I marked the halyard
where the taut halyard fit in the cam cleat when reefed.
To pull in a reef just set up the topping lift (also to the cockpit),
put the halyard's mark in the cam cleat, luff up and let go the
halyard rope clutch. The sail drops to the predetermined mark. Pull in
the slack in the reef line through it's clutch and cinch it down.
Adjust the main halyard a bit and fall off. The slack in the other
reef lines needs to be collected now. I don't tie in the points
(though I might if I had all three reefs in, never have) but I
sometimes put a sail tie through the cringle in the leech for backup.
The sail was made with reinforced slits at the foot (just above the
bolt rope) where the other two reef lines pass around the boom below
their respective leech cringles but some other way to attach the line
could be worked out. This beats crawling out to the mast, is quick,
and since I prefer to sail generally upright, I don't hesitate to reef.
Craig Tern #1519
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
This is the diagram of the Harken System:


Chris

vegatern vegatern@... wrote: I know there are a lot of ways to do this but here's one. On the
Tern the reefing line starts at the outhaul with a bowline around the
boom, up to the first reef cringle in the leech, down to the boom to a
cheek block, (set a bit astern of the leech cringle, so the foot
tightens) down the boom through a couple of eye straps ( to control
slack) to another cheek block on the boom at the goose neck, up and
through the first reef cringle in the luff, down to a swivel block at
the mast step bail, through a deck organizer on the coach roof, back
through a hole drilled in the splash guard at the dodger and finishes
in a rope clutch. Three reefs on alternate sides of the boom.
When I bought the boat the line went to a block suspended from the
luff cringle but I had problems keeping the cringle parallel with the
mast. By passing through the cringle the pull seems more natural for
the sail, but there is more friction when pulling in the reef and the
line needs to be "helped" along a bit.
The halyard, which also comes back to the cockpit through the deck
organizer, passes through a rope clutch, to a winch on the coach roof
at the companionway. A few inches behind the winch I installed a cam
cleat. After I was satisfied with the set up I marked the halyard
where the taut halyard fit in the cam cleat when reefed.
To pull in a reef just set up the topping lift (also to the cockpit),
put the halyard's mark in the cam cleat, luff up and let go the
halyard rope clutch. The sail drops to the predetermined mark. Pull in
the slack in the reef line through it's clutch and cinch it down.
Adjust the main halyard a bit and fall off. The slack in the other
reef lines needs to be collected now. I don't tie in the points
(though I might if I had all three reefs in, never have) but I
sometimes put a sail tie through the cringle in the leech for backup.
The sail was made with reinforced slits at the foot (just above the
bolt rope) where the other two reef lines pass around the boom below
their respective leech cringles but some other way to attach the line
could be worked out. This beats crawling out to the mast, is quick,
and since I prefer to sail generally upright, I don't hesitate to reef.
Craig Tern #1519
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi Chris - "crawling up forward in a blow" (to reef) is half the fun of
sailing single-handed :-(

I find it's not too bad actually; I have slab reefing so just:

dump main sheet and drop tiller - boat sails off on a close reach
scuttle to mast
scandalise the main (heave on the topping lift)
ease main halyard
clip snap shackle onto D-Ring on luff of sail for first/second reef
harden up main halyard
heave on "outhaul" which pulls cringle on leech of sail down to boom (this
leads from end of boom through cringle on leech down through block on boom
and forward through pad eyes bolted to boom to gooseneck.
adjust topping lift
scuttle back to cockpit and harden up main sheet.

A worried man can do all the above quite fast... :)

(I'd much prefer not to have to leave the cockpit but drilling holes
through the coach roof for all the bolts holding all those clutches is not
something I like doing.)

John
Vega 1447 BreakawayJohn A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
Hahaha...I worried man can do a great deal of amazing feats!!!!

I would agree about the drilling...that does make me a bit nervous, but it would be great to have all the lines lead aft at some point!?!??!

Hey John (and anyone else for that matter). Do you find that the topping lift fouls the sail? If so, what have you done to correct for this?

Thanks for the response
Chris

"John A. Kinsella" John.Kinsella@... wrote: Hi Chris - "crawling up forward in a blow" (to reef) is half the fun of
sailing single-handed :-(

I find it's not too bad actually; I have slab reefing so just:

dump main sheet and drop tiller - boat sails off on a close reach
scuttle to mast
scandalise the main (heave on the topping lift)
ease main halyard
clip snap shackle onto D-Ring on luff of sail for first/second reef
harden up main halyard
heave on "outhaul" which pulls cringle on leech of sail down to boom (this
leads from end of boom through cringle on leech down through block on boom
and forward through pad eyes bolted to boom to gooseneck.
adjust topping lift
scuttle back to cockpit and harden up main sheet.

A worried man can do all the above quite fast... :)

(I'd much prefer not to have to leave the cockpit but drilling holes
through the coach roof for all the bolts holding all those clutches is not
something I like doing.)

John
Vega 1447 Breakaway

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi again,
agree about getting lines back to cockpit - some day..

Re topping lift, prev owner knotted in loops for mast cleat so that
appropriate topping lift slack is set for unreefed, one reef etc. Works
well.

With a little slack in topping lift the wind keeps the line clear of the
leech of the sail and the line is not slack enough to catch a spreader
when you gybe - a screw-up I committed on my previous boat. Nearly tore
the spreader off...

John

Vega 1447 Breakaway
John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
Oct 30, 2019
80
Hi Chris & Kerin

I have just finished fitting a jiffy reefing system to my Vega. To
avoid having to cut or drill holes in the spray guard I mounted the
clutch and winch on a plinth of 2" thick Iroko (would have preferred
teak but can't get it here) which raised the lines above the guard.
The organisers are mounted on the same thickness pads up front on the
coachroof. All the hardware is through-bolted to recesses in the Iroko
with large 'penny' washers and self-locking nuts so that the
undersides of the wooden plinths are flush. I then bolted the plinths
to the coachroof with 8mm bolts of the necessary length with s/steel
backing plates made to spread the load. This has also minimised the
number of holes through the coachroof.

A three way clutch (main halyard, topping lift and kicker) with winch
control the mainsail on the Starboard side of the companionway, while
a two way clutch and a winchfeeder on the Port side do the same for
the reefing lines. These lines go round the winchfeeder, across the
companionway to the winch when hauling them in, so one winch does
everything.

Finished getting it all bolted down last Tuesday and took `Little
Star' out on Wednesday to check it all out worked a treat in calm
conditions and the winch was able to haul in both of the reefing lines
really tight.

The only difficulty in designing this was finding a way of feeding the
lines from the mast to the coachroof at the correct height. I have
made up a temporary rig that should be OK until we unstep the mast for
the winter when I hope to be able to devise something more elegant and
stronger. Anyone got any good ideas for this?

Will take some pix when I get down to the boat next and put them on
the web

Great news of Chuck Laura and Bree, makes me glad I own a Vega. They
probably feel the same way!

David
 
Dec 13, 2006
227
That sounds great David!

I drew a few sketches of a raised platform similar to what you have described (though not as elegant) as an option. My father-in-law's Catalina 34' had a similar setup as the one you described and it worked great! I am anxious to see the pictures. Sounds like you have designed an efficient system for single handing as well.

Chris
David Runyard dr@... wrote: Hi Chris & Kerin

I have just finished fitting a jiffy reefing system to my Vega. To
avoid having to cut or drill holes in the spray guard I mounted the
clutch and winch on a plinth of 2" thick Iroko (would have preferred
teak but can't get it here) which raised the lines above the guard.
The organisers are mounted on the same thickness pads up front on the
coachroof. All the hardware is through-bolted to recesses in the Iroko
with large 'penny' washers and self-locking nuts so that the
undersides of the wooden plinths are flush. I then bolted the plinths
to the coachroof with 8mm bolts of the necessary length with s/steel
backing plates made to spread the load. This has also minimised the
number of holes through the coachroof.

A three way clutch (main halyard, topping lift and kicker) with winch
control the mainsail on the Starboard side of the companionway, while
a two way clutch and a winchfeeder on the Port side do the same for
the reefing lines. These lines go round the winchfeeder, across the
companionway to the winch when hauling them in, so one winch does
everything.

Finished getting it all bolted down last Tuesday and took `Little
Star' out on Wednesday to check it all out worked a treat in calm
conditions and the winch was able to haul in both of the reefing lines
really tight.

The only difficulty in designing this was finding a way of feeding the
lines from the mast to the coachroof at the correct height. I have
made up a temporary rig that should be OK until we unstep the mast for
the winter when I hope to be able to devise something more elegant and
stronger. Anyone got any good ideas for this?

Will take some pix when I get down to the boat next and put them on
the web

Great news of Chuck Laura and Bree, makes me glad I own a Vega. They
probably feel the same way!

David