I have a 33 foot production boat with an extra large propane locker (designed for two bottles, but only has one installed. I have just added a dinghy with outboard and need to store an extra gallon of gasoline - the outboard has internal tank only. Knowing that I do not want fumes to enter the cabin, the only place I can find to store a small can is in the propane locker. Anybody see anything wrong with doing this? The "can" is plastic, so no shifting can cause sparks. The only other option is to strap the can to the transom when we travel. All replies appreciated. Barry
Storing Gasoline for Dinghy
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supposed to be a dedicated locker
The propane locker is required to be dedicated solely as it's name implies according to various standards. Having said that, you're not alone in doing just that. An obvious alternative is simply store the gas tank in the dinghy Don
The propane locker is required to be dedicated solely as it's name implies according to various standards. Having said that, you're not alone in doing just that. An obvious alternative is simply store the gas tank in the dinghy Don
Bad Idea. A propane locker ...
was designed to contain and flush outside the boat propane fumes in case of a malfunction or leak in the tank components. Under normal operating conditions the locker is free of fumes. The problem with a gas can is that they are not sealed and as gasoline expands because of heat or motion fumes will escape the can and even though gasoline fumes are also heavier than air you will have a potentially explosive concentration flowing inside the locker. All you would need is a spark from a defective solenoid or from static electricity to have a massive explosion. A lot of sailors place the cans in a cockpit lazarette and although that is not advisable, the volume of air in these lockers being much larger than inside a propane locker help dilute the fumes. We tie ours to one of the port stanchions when we go on a long trip. Our Merc 3.3HP holds 1.4 liters in the integrated tank which is more than enough for overnight or weekend trips.
was designed to contain and flush outside the boat propane fumes in case of a malfunction or leak in the tank components. Under normal operating conditions the locker is free of fumes. The problem with a gas can is that they are not sealed and as gasoline expands because of heat or motion fumes will escape the can and even though gasoline fumes are also heavier than air you will have a potentially explosive concentration flowing inside the locker. All you would need is a spark from a defective solenoid or from static electricity to have a massive explosion. A lot of sailors place the cans in a cockpit lazarette and although that is not advisable, the volume of air in these lockers being much larger than inside a propane locker help dilute the fumes. We tie ours to one of the port stanchions when we go on a long trip. Our Merc 3.3HP holds 1.4 liters in the integrated tank which is more than enough for overnight or weekend trips.
Right or wrong, I use my anchor locker...
I figure there is ventilation from the holes that allows water to drain and the only electrical system there is the windlass which is only used when the anchor hatch is open and I can check gas leaks. abe
I figure there is ventilation from the holes that allows water to drain and the only electrical system there is the windlass which is only used when the anchor hatch is open and I can check gas leaks. abe
Don't Get the Logic
Benny, You're advocating not storing gasoline in a vented locker, but rather storing it in an unvented locker. That raised both eyebrows. I'm leery of the logic that since the locker is bigger, the fumes will be "diluted," and therefore not pose an explosion risk. It's the very nature of an unvented locker that allows the gasoline molecules to spread around the closed volume, getting those nasty oxygen molecules all around them, that poses the explosion hazard in the first place. Considering the potential in a GALLON of gasoline (let's say spilled), a warehouse-sized locker wouldn't completely preclude the explosion potential. The reason the propane locker is vented is to PREVENT that condition from developing in the first place. It won't be gasoline fumes "flowing" around the locker; it will be fresh air venting the heavy gasoline fumes overboard AS THEY ESCAPE from the gas can. Prevention. Technically, the propane locker is a "dedicated" locker. But a bottom-vented locker doesn't know whether it's propane exiting its vent, or gasoline, and it doesn't care: it just keeps its volume free of collected fumes by the circulation of fresh air. Put the can there. I can understand the logic of using an anchor locker, with it's limber hole at the bottom. But once the electric winch motor is installed, no way. Even if you open up the big locker cover, on a still day, you might still have plenty of fumes down there if the limber hole is clogged (and we all know how a single dirt clod or piece of seaweed can do it). PreVENT, preVENT, preVENT. VENT.
Benny, You're advocating not storing gasoline in a vented locker, but rather storing it in an unvented locker. That raised both eyebrows. I'm leery of the logic that since the locker is bigger, the fumes will be "diluted," and therefore not pose an explosion risk. It's the very nature of an unvented locker that allows the gasoline molecules to spread around the closed volume, getting those nasty oxygen molecules all around them, that poses the explosion hazard in the first place. Considering the potential in a GALLON of gasoline (let's say spilled), a warehouse-sized locker wouldn't completely preclude the explosion potential. The reason the propane locker is vented is to PREVENT that condition from developing in the first place. It won't be gasoline fumes "flowing" around the locker; it will be fresh air venting the heavy gasoline fumes overboard AS THEY ESCAPE from the gas can. Prevention. Technically, the propane locker is a "dedicated" locker. But a bottom-vented locker doesn't know whether it's propane exiting its vent, or gasoline, and it doesn't care: it just keeps its volume free of collected fumes by the circulation of fresh air. Put the can there. I can understand the logic of using an anchor locker, with it's limber hole at the bottom. But once the electric winch motor is installed, no way. Even if you open up the big locker cover, on a still day, you might still have plenty of fumes down there if the limber hole is clogged (and we all know how a single dirt clod or piece of seaweed can do it). PreVENT, preVENT, preVENT. VENT.
store it in the dingy
store the extra gas in the dingy theres already gas in the dingy if the motor is on it and if its not still store it in the dink
store the extra gas in the dingy theres already gas in the dingy if the motor is on it and if its not still store it in the dink
two points regarding "vented" lockers
Gasoline fumes are not heavier than air and will not behave as propane does. Putting the gas tank in a bottom "vented" locker might help but more than likely is essentially worthless in terms of venting the area. A single vent won't provide any air circulation. The gas vapor will mix throughout the locker space and not sink as would propane. The propane locker is designed to do just one thing and this isn't it.
Gasoline fumes are not heavier than air and will not behave as propane does. Putting the gas tank in a bottom "vented" locker might help but more than likely is essentially worthless in terms of venting the area. A single vent won't provide any air circulation. The gas vapor will mix throughout the locker space and not sink as would propane. The propane locker is designed to do just one thing and this isn't it.
Don, In this statement you are dead wrong
GASOLINE vapor is heavier than air and will settle into any low area. Gasoline should not be stored in any place that communicates with a source of ignition. any doubts about this can be cleared up by a short talk with the local fire department. I never store gasoline anywhere near my house and if on my boat it is on deck as far aft as I can put it.
GASOLINE vapor is heavier than air and will settle into any low area. Gasoline should not be stored in any place that communicates with a source of ignition. any doubts about this can be cleared up by a short talk with the local fire department. I never store gasoline anywhere near my house and if on my boat it is on deck as far aft as I can put it.
store in sink
When we are on the boat we store the tank outside on a rail But when we are leaving the boat for a week or more I put the can in our sink. The sink drain goes directly overboard without a water trap. My thinking is that since gasoline vapors are heavier than air that the vapors will go down the drain. I have been doing this for a year or more and have never detected gasoline smells when opening the boat. At first I used the cockpit locker but could smell the faint smell of gasoline when returning a week or so later. It is so hot that I worry abot leaving the tankon deck in the sun.
When we are on the boat we store the tank outside on a rail But when we are leaving the boat for a week or more I put the can in our sink. The sink drain goes directly overboard without a water trap. My thinking is that since gasoline vapors are heavier than air that the vapors will go down the drain. I have been doing this for a year or more and have never detected gasoline smells when opening the boat. At first I used the cockpit locker but could smell the faint smell of gasoline when returning a week or so later. It is so hot that I worry abot leaving the tankon deck in the sun.
Good job correcting those posts men.
My propane water heater is a foot off of the garage floor. And gasoline in any vented locker is safe. (as it can be) Just because the ABYC says a propane locker must be 'dedicated' doesn't mean you can't use some knowledge of fuels and their characteristics to render them harmless. And that solenoid WON'T blow up gasoline fumes any faster than propane fumes. Whew!
My propane water heater is a foot off of the garage floor. And gasoline in any vented locker is safe. (as it can be) Just because the ABYC says a propane locker must be 'dedicated' doesn't mean you can't use some knowledge of fuels and their characteristics to render them harmless. And that solenoid WON'T blow up gasoline fumes any faster than propane fumes. Whew!
Some comments
Well from a quick internet search it -does- seem as if Gasoline is heavier than air (Just like propane) So maybe it will be ok in the propane locker vented at the bottom - but as mentioned that solenoid makes me think??? (FYI-CNG on the other hand is lighter than air - go figure) http://www.energy.sc.gov/Transportation/understanding_afvs.htm. But I agree with "menestheus". Why not store it in the dink? Thats where my gas tank is. Its very easy to get a few tie downs and straps like most inflatables have. With a air tight gas tank, I've towed my dinghy with a few gallons of fuel for years. I've even been in horrendous wind storms where the dinghy was flipping like a wind sock but the gas tank stayed right there. just my 2 cents
Well from a quick internet search it -does- seem as if Gasoline is heavier than air (Just like propane) So maybe it will be ok in the propane locker vented at the bottom - but as mentioned that solenoid makes me think??? (FYI-CNG on the other hand is lighter than air - go figure) http://www.energy.sc.gov/Transportation/understanding_afvs.htm. But I agree with "menestheus". Why not store it in the dink? Thats where my gas tank is. Its very easy to get a few tie downs and straps like most inflatables have. With a air tight gas tank, I've towed my dinghy with a few gallons of fuel for years. I've even been in horrendous wind storms where the dinghy was flipping like a wind sock but the gas tank stayed right there. just my 2 cents
gas is heavy
I once had a lawnmower in my garage lose it's gas all over the floor in February. I noticed the smell in the basement first before I found the leaky mower. physics at work !
I once had a lawnmower in my garage lose it's gas all over the floor in February. I noticed the smell in the basement first before I found the leaky mower. physics at work !
When I was in school or in the Air Force
I can't recall which, We had a demonstration concerning the flame propagation of gasoline vapors. The demo involved a trough like a rain gutter leading from a pan on a table down a long slope to the floor, there was a lighted candle on the floor at the foot of the trough. A few ounces of gasoline was poured into the pan and transmitted light showed the progress of the vapor down the length of the trough until it reached the lighted candle. At that point they switched shutter speeds and showed the flame moving up the trough to the little puddle. It is very fast.
I can't recall which, We had a demonstration concerning the flame propagation of gasoline vapors. The demo involved a trough like a rain gutter leading from a pan on a table down a long slope to the floor, there was a lighted candle on the floor at the foot of the trough. A few ounces of gasoline was poured into the pan and transmitted light showed the progress of the vapor down the length of the trough until it reached the lighted candle. At that point they switched shutter speeds and showed the flame moving up the trough to the little puddle. It is very fast.
Just a few thoughts about gas vapors....
Gasoline vapors are heavier than air....but it is highly volatile and has a relatively low flash point. It will find an ignition source, a short, stove or microwave. I would never store gasoline on the boat - EVER! Keep it in the dink, if it ignites, you may need a new dink and not a new boat - but if you want to store it on the boat, you can always use the dink for your boating needs while waiting for the insurance claim. From the attached link..... Flammable range refers to the percentage of a flammable liquid, in its gaseous state, to air to create an explosive mixture. This varies with different flammable liquids. Gasoline has a flammability range of 1.4 to 7.6 percent. This means it will ignite when there is 1.4 parts of gasoline mixed with 100 parts air. Bottom line is keep it away from an ignition source which means - keep it off the boat. If you're worried about someone stealing your gas - lock it to the dink. If you like to gamble, drop $1000 on the roulette wheel in Atlantic City - the outcome is safer. My dink's gas tank never touches the boat - ever!
Gasoline vapors are heavier than air....but it is highly volatile and has a relatively low flash point. It will find an ignition source, a short, stove or microwave. I would never store gasoline on the boat - EVER! Keep it in the dink, if it ignites, you may need a new dink and not a new boat - but if you want to store it on the boat, you can always use the dink for your boating needs while waiting for the insurance claim. From the attached link..... Flammable range refers to the percentage of a flammable liquid, in its gaseous state, to air to create an explosive mixture. This varies with different flammable liquids. Gasoline has a flammability range of 1.4 to 7.6 percent. This means it will ignite when there is 1.4 parts of gasoline mixed with 100 parts air. Bottom line is keep it away from an ignition source which means - keep it off the boat. If you're worried about someone stealing your gas - lock it to the dink. If you like to gamble, drop $1000 on the roulette wheel in Atlantic City - the outcome is safer. My dink's gas tank never touches the boat - ever!
Rob, You are being unnecessarily
fearful in this case. Yes, gasoline is volatile but its flammability range is much smaller than propane. For many years sailing auxillaries used gasoline engines and most power boats today use gasoline fueled engines. There is no problem with storing the fuel on deck as long as the container is not leaking. As far as theft is concerned, why would anyone steal a little can of gas? If theft is a serious problem in your marina then put out a decoy can with six quarts of water in it and one quart of gasoline. You will probably find out who the thief is within a day or two after the can disapears.
fearful in this case. Yes, gasoline is volatile but its flammability range is much smaller than propane. For many years sailing auxillaries used gasoline engines and most power boats today use gasoline fueled engines. There is no problem with storing the fuel on deck as long as the container is not leaking. As far as theft is concerned, why would anyone steal a little can of gas? If theft is a serious problem in your marina then put out a decoy can with six quarts of water in it and one quart of gasoline. You will probably find out who the thief is within a day or two after the can disapears.
Agreed Ross. Gasoline is one of many dangerous
products that we use regularly. No need to treat it like plutonium. Just know what it can do. Like that candle demonstration.
products that we use regularly. No need to treat it like plutonium. Just know what it can do. Like that candle demonstration.
Hang it off the rear swim ladder!
I keep a 1-gallon, red plastic (approved) container for my dink engine. When cruising and towing my dink, I set the container on a rung on my swim ladder and criss-cross a couple of bungie cords around it, through the handle and around the ladder. Keeps it out of the way, any leaks (none so far) would run down the stern (ok, polluting the lake but, heck, if my boat blew up, it'd pollute it even more!). I've done it this way for 6 years and taken many trips with no problems. Worried about theft? Cover it with a piece of white vinyl or whatever color your hull is so it blends in with the hull and is virtually hidden from all but the closest view. that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
I keep a 1-gallon, red plastic (approved) container for my dink engine. When cruising and towing my dink, I set the container on a rung on my swim ladder and criss-cross a couple of bungie cords around it, through the handle and around the ladder. Keeps it out of the way, any leaks (none so far) would run down the stern (ok, polluting the lake but, heck, if my boat blew up, it'd pollute it even more!). I've done it this way for 6 years and taken many trips with no problems. Worried about theft? Cover it with a piece of white vinyl or whatever color your hull is so it blends in with the hull and is virtually hidden from all but the closest view. that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
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