Storage for hot water

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Captnkev25

Captnkev25

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Mar 8, 2011
158
Catalina 25 Long island
A friend of mine recently purchased an Island Trader 46 and is planning on living aboard. He has a "Force 10" 6 gallon electric hot water heater and is looking to increase his hot water capacity. Is it possible to use a 30 gallon "superstore" to do so? Keeping the 6 gallon heater and piping the hot line directly into the superstore and the "out" of the superstore picking up the hot lines to the fixtures? Any suggestions?
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Posible but to what purpose? Unless he has a water maker it is a good thing to have a limited amount of hot water. Will he be living on shore power with dockside water supply? I don't know what a "Superstore" is but I presume that it is some manner of a well insulated tank. The water in such a tank will never be warmer then the water entering the tank and the six gallon water heater will be supplying cold water after the first six gallons.
 
Captnkev25

Captnkev25

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Mar 8, 2011
158
Catalina 25 Long island
Yes he will basically be living dockside. With shore power and water. He is an older gent who is fulfilling a lifelong dream of living aboard but desires all the creature comforts that a house would bring. A superstore is exactly what you described. It's in essence a big thermos that keeps hot water hot. They are used in houses when hot water is made from the coil on a boiler to store the hot water. It's my thinking that he should just get a 20 gallon "low boy" electric hot water heater and do away with the heat exchanger loop. He has an 8kw generator of he did need hot water away from shore which it is highly unlikely he will ever be.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
If he has room and electric capacity for a twenty gallon water heater that would be the way to go. Check the power draw on the heaters for the twenty. Some of them are pretty hefty.
 
Captnkev25

Captnkev25

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Mar 8, 2011
158
Catalina 25 Long island
That's what I figured. If that's the route he goes how would I eliminate the heat exchanger lines that he has going into his force 10 6 gallon? Can I just loop them together?
 
NYSail

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,184
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
he will not be able to fill the 30 gallon with hot water.... after 6 real hot it will fill with 24 cold and just sit there. Unless he puts a value in between and shuts the connection, let the water get hot, open put 6 in, shut the connection etc.....

Get a larger hot water heater....... Is he planning on taking hot baths while onboard?
 
Bob J.

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
775
Sabre 28 NH
You would have to circulate water between the 6 gal electric & storage tank for that scenario to work.

A larger electric water heater would operate off 220 volts & require a 30 amp circuit.
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,219
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Yup, a propane powered "on demand" downstream of the existing 6 gal heater..The 6 gal would supply the water without the "on demand" firing until the 6 gal runs out, then the propane heater would kick on ..Otherwise, if he is going electric, he is going to to need another dedicated 30 ampere (at least) power circuit. Most larger 110 volt heaters are 3000 watt which is 25 amperes. An "on demand electric would be fine too and save a lot of space.. but it would require a dedicated 30 ampere circuit too.
 
RECESS

RECESS

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Dec 20, 2003
1,509
Catalina 27 . St. Mary's Georgia
Our 6 gallon water heater is all we need for me, the wife, and my son. It is a lot hotter than my home heater so I use much less hot water to cold water ratio. It comes out steaming hot. It also only takes ten minutes to reheat.

I would suggest he use it for 3 months and see if it meets his needs. Just being on our boat for long breaks, every bit of space is precious. I could not imagine a big chunk being swallowed up for a huge water heater or storage.
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
If he wants all the creature comforts of home and is never going to be away from the dock......??? WTF
It is doubtfull if he will be able to sequester the needed number of shore power outlets and not get the other slip owners ire. It is also doubtful if he will have the room for a 20 gal tank.
It is likely that an on demand unit can be made to work provide you can vent it correctly and meet all the safety requirments for gas appliances in boats.

Is he going to be needing a 14 CF reefer also?
how about a lazyboy and 56" plasma? (you did say ALL the creature comforts)
blender, toaster, garbage disposal, trash compactor (how big is this boat?) flush toilet, microwave, coffee pot, walk in closets, .......

The number of "creature comforts" that you give up when limiting yourself to an effiecncy appartment (aka boat < 70') is pretty large.

My first impression is he is not going to find that the reality of living on a boat meets his dream expitations but one can always hope.
 
Sailm8

Sailm8

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Feb 21, 2008
1,751
Hunter 29.5 Punta Gorda
I have never lived aboard so I have limited personal knowledge. I do have a friend who lived aboard for about 2 years in Washington DC. He said there was so much he had to learn the hard way. Things he never anticipated like the amount of condensation he had in the winter. How cold it got? How do you empty the holding tank in freezing weather when everything is frozen? What happens when winter storms interrupt power in the marina?

I hope that your friend makes this work. I think in the back of every sailors mind is the same dream.
 
A

alexco38

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Sep 25, 2008
1,096
CS 30 Toronto
Get a floating house instead

http://brnwlsn.tripod.com/houseboats/

Yes you can have the home theater, projector, hot tub, gym etc on one of this baby. No worry about pump out. It has city water and sewer hookup. 200A can run central air, fridge and heat. Granite counter top to boot ;-)
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Misfits said:
You would have to circulate water between the 6 gal electric & storage tank for that scenario to work....quote]

That's not such a far-fetched idea. My B323 has intake hose barbs molded into both port and starboard sides. I was out this past weekend in <40 degree overnight temps and Sunday morning the water was tough to get suds out of. Of course the ladies like their hot water- or at least warm! I am getting the parts together to run a hot water line through a shutoff then to the spare 5/8 vent intake. I'll not let the water tank get as hot as the water heater water, but running the water pump for a minute once in a while has to be better than nothing.
Click to expand
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I guess my confusion is why would you do this if you did not want to go sailing also. Certianly a power boat would be better solution, though still nowhere near living in a house by the water.
If I get to be in the Bahamas, lie on south sea beaches, visit Hawaii and New Zeland..... then I'm a lot more willing to put up with fewer creature comforts. If I'm going to be sitting at a slip and never moving the boat then what is the point?
 
LuzSD

LuzSD

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Feb 21, 2009
1,009
Catalina 30 San Diego/ Dana Point, Ca.
RECESS said:
Our 6 gallon water heater is all we need for me, the wife, and my son. It is a lot hotter than my home heater so I use much less hot water to cold water ratio. It comes out steaming hot. It also only takes ten minutes to reheat.

I would suggest he use it for 3 months and see if it meets his needs. Just being on our boat for long breaks, every bit of space is precious. I could not imagine a big chunk being swallowed up for a huge water heater or storage.
Click to expand

completely agree with RECESS!
 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
A simple effective way to do this without 'extra clattertrap' is to simply continuously 'bleed' hot water back to the (must be 'metal') water storage tank. This will do two things, will help to keep the boat warm (without additional condensation) and will allow 'pre-heating' of any water that is fed to the Hot water heater. The higher the 'infeed' to the water heater the faster the 'recovery time' to the heater's 'set point' temperature.
If he wants to use the hot water tank as a preheater for the water tank, then he can add insulation to the outside of the water tank; If he also wants additional interior heat then no insulation.
If the dockside electricity is 'metered' ... going to be 'expensive' to operate.

A IT46 will probably have near a 100 gallon tank (833 pounds); dockside water inlet (supply) is usually 60° (... maybe 40° in winter), tank temp 'could' be 100° = 40° differential. temp;

40°∆T X 833 pounds = 33320 BTU of 'storage'. Just make sure that your friend has a proper galvanic isolator and internal hot water tank magnesium anode to do this ... or intense 'corrosion'.
 
Bob J.

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
775
Sabre 28 NH
Ron20324 said:
Misfits said:
You would have to circulate water between the 6 gal electric & storage tank for that scenario to work....quote]

That's not such a far-fetched idea.
Click to expand
It's very doable. You could let it heat the storage tank by convection if you take the hot water off the 6 gallon heater before the hot water inlet to the mixing valve. Just would need to put a tee on the heater side of a check valve on the cold water inlet. Of course if was done, you'd also need an expansion tank in the equation so the relief valves didn't weep.

As others have noted here, a 6 gallon electric is sufficient for a boat. If you heat the tank to 140, set the tempering valve to 115 degrees, it would deliver 9 gallons without adding recovery into the equation.

Bob
Click to expand
 
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