We have an Oday 28 slipped at Lake Guntersville, AL, a smallish freshwater lake. The previous owner (PO) pulled out the junked Saildrive, glassed over hole, and had a bottom job done. He then installed (no wise cracks please) a 50-gallon gas tank in the quarterberth (starboard) rendering that space useless, put in two (2) Group 27 batteries (port cockpit locker...counterweight to the gas tank I guess), and mounted a 9.9 4-stroke Yamaha on an undersized motor mount. The 50 gallon gas tank is gone, and the batteries & charger were toast. I then installed a modest 6 gallon (red, above-deck type) gas tank with a vent line in the cockpit locker. A new charger is hooked up to 2 new 6-volt golf cart batteries mounted where the designer intended...port side of the original metal gas tank...THIS gas tank is mounted (and disconnected) just aft of where the Saildrive was. I've also had to replace the motor mount as the old one broke beyond repair. Here are my issues. 1. With the missing weight aft of the companionway (rear quarter of the boat), the boat is now out of balance. The idea of a broach (albeit unlikely) has entered my mind as the boat now seems bow-heavy. Probably, at worst, the boat's performance will be affected. 2. The waterline is now 8 inches or so above the water which creates the problem that the engine can not get any deeper than the top of the cavitation plate. If you look at the picture, you can see several inches of the rudder. A sailing buddy of mine has proposed pulling out the old gas tank to create room (not much more weight lost), moving the batteries to the starboard side of the centerline to counteract the engine mounted on the transom's port side, and then securing concrete pylons readily available at big box hardware store as ballast/weight to help bring the stern down and thus better balancing our boat. I am open to any and all ideas. I have even considered reinstalling a new Saildrive, but that's more money than I would like to pump into this project. Whatcha think? As always, thank you in advance for your help and thoughts.
Stern raised...boat out of balance...ideas?
- Thread starter flyhop
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OK here is the deal.
I had somewhat a simular issue on my Cheoy Lee Clipper. It was to high at the bow because it was designed for all chain rode which I would never use. My solution worked great and improved the boats windward sailing and offshore hobbie horseing. I used lead obtain from local hospital. It was installed in a part of the bilge never used under the mast. I first tried 200lbs and was so happy with the results I went to 400 lbs. It has to be very secure so I used cement to insure it would never move in the most severe storm. I also used the 6 volt golf cart batteries to balance the port/starboard using 6 and never had a battery problem afterwards as I had plenty of capacity. In your instance I would use some lead near/underneath the cockpit/doorway where the engine was I guess. Batterys on the side to balance the port/starboard. Used this solution for about 15 years with no problems.
I had somewhat a simular issue on my Cheoy Lee Clipper. It was to high at the bow because it was designed for all chain rode which I would never use. My solution worked great and improved the boats windward sailing and offshore hobbie horseing. I used lead obtain from local hospital. It was installed in a part of the bilge never used under the mast. I first tried 200lbs and was so happy with the results I went to 400 lbs. It has to be very secure so I used cement to insure it would never move in the most severe storm. I also used the 6 volt golf cart batteries to balance the port/starboard using 6 and never had a battery problem afterwards as I had plenty of capacity. In your instance I would use some lead near/underneath the cockpit/doorway where the engine was I guess. Batterys on the side to balance the port/starboard. Used this solution for about 15 years with no problems.
Replace the Old Saildrive with?
It seems that the removal of stuff - the saildrive - has changed the weight and weight distribution from the original design intent of the boat. I see no problem with an outboard, a proper mount and a 6 gallon gas tank, so . . . Why not simply mount lead bricks as ballast where needed so that the boat will float on her lines with the tanks 2/3 full and some normal gear aboard? The lead bricks could be glassed in low, and the weight being low would enhance stability. Placement would be determined by fore and aft trim. Just make sure to mount them stout so they can't come out of place. Decide where you want batteries and tanks first. Lead is a lot heavier than cement - so won't take up as much space. It will also look more professional when done. I think that you can get lead bricks from industrial supply houses like McMaster-Carr. I don't know if there are cheaper sources for lead. OldCat
It seems that the removal of stuff - the saildrive - has changed the weight and weight distribution from the original design intent of the boat. I see no problem with an outboard, a proper mount and a 6 gallon gas tank, so . . . Why not simply mount lead bricks as ballast where needed so that the boat will float on her lines with the tanks 2/3 full and some normal gear aboard? The lead bricks could be glassed in low, and the weight being low would enhance stability. Placement would be determined by fore and aft trim. Just make sure to mount them stout so they can't come out of place. Decide where you want batteries and tanks first. Lead is a lot heavier than cement - so won't take up as much space. It will also look more professional when done. I think that you can get lead bricks from industrial supply houses like McMaster-Carr. I don't know if there are cheaper sources for lead. OldCat
BTW
BTW: Bricks, or water in buckets, or similar, will allow you to figure out how much weight you need, and where to put it. Obviously this is done at the dock on a calm day - to get the boat on her lines. This will tell you how much lead (or?) to buy. I'd stay away from steel ballast - rust. Then - the real ballast can go in low and mounted stoutly for stability and safety. OC
BTW: Bricks, or water in buckets, or similar, will allow you to figure out how much weight you need, and where to put it. Obviously this is done at the dock on a calm day - to get the boat on her lines. This will tell you how much lead (or?) to buy. I'd stay away from steel ballast - rust. Then - the real ballast can go in low and mounted stoutly for stability and safety. OC
Good advice
I agree with the advice given to use lead bricks. The ones that I used we 26# each and about the size of a clay building brick. After determining the correct locations I secured them in place with 3M 5200. Found a supplier with a web search and then purchased the units from a local distributor. Much easier to deal with and a cleaner finished look than scrap lead. But the scrap is cheeper.
I agree with the advice given to use lead bricks. The ones that I used we 26# each and about the size of a clay building brick. After determining the correct locations I secured them in place with 3M 5200. Found a supplier with a web search and then purchased the units from a local distributor. Much easier to deal with and a cleaner finished look than scrap lead. But the scrap is cheeper.
Good ideas!!
Waffle...9.9 is a long-shaft engine. Paul Akers... please elaborate on your cautionary note. SailorTonyB...I was thinking of adding a starter battery (cheap 12V for OB, and leave 6-Vs for house) I like the idea of lead bricks. Frankly, I would love to have an inboard in this thing, but the cost would be prohibitive at the moment. Given that this is a small freshwater lake, an inboard would be overkill. Should we decide to do some bluewater, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I just did a Google search and found a 27 lb lead brick for $39. Yikes!! For the kind of weight "replacement that I'm thinking we'll need, maybe I should think about an inboard or concrete blocks!! Any "cheaper" solutions ?? In the meantime, keep these ideas coming. And I appreciate all the "advise" so far.
Waffle...9.9 is a long-shaft engine. Paul Akers... please elaborate on your cautionary note. SailorTonyB...I was thinking of adding a starter battery (cheap 12V for OB, and leave 6-Vs for house) I like the idea of lead bricks. Frankly, I would love to have an inboard in this thing, but the cost would be prohibitive at the moment. Given that this is a small freshwater lake, an inboard would be overkill. Should we decide to do some bluewater, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I just did a Google search and found a 27 lb lead brick for $39. Yikes!! For the kind of weight "replacement that I'm thinking we'll need, maybe I should think about an inboard or concrete blocks!! Any "cheaper" solutions ?? In the meantime, keep these ideas coming. And I appreciate all the "advise" so far.
Water, Concrete
"Any "cheaper" solutions ??" Water. If it works for McGregs, Cat 250s, Hunter 240/260s then it can work for you - in a properly tied down tank. Concrete may be starting to sound better if cheaper is the goal. Make sure that it can be removed easily but is still mounted in stout. Bernard Moitessier discussed his problems chipping out excess concrete ballast in his book "Sailing to the Reefs". OC
"Any "cheaper" solutions ??" Water. If it works for McGregs, Cat 250s, Hunter 240/260s then it can work for you - in a properly tied down tank. Concrete may be starting to sound better if cheaper is the goal. Make sure that it can be removed easily but is still mounted in stout. Bernard Moitessier discussed his problems chipping out excess concrete ballast in his book "Sailing to the Reefs". OC
Wheel weights
I've been casting bullets for many years. I usually use pure lead for muzzle loaders but shift to wheel weights for wad cutters. Lead is easy to melt. You could even make crude molds to match the shape where you plan to place the added weight. Wheel weights are cheap and can be had at most tire stores.
I've been casting bullets for many years. I usually use pure lead for muzzle loaders but shift to wheel weights for wad cutters. Lead is easy to melt. You could even make crude molds to match the shape where you plan to place the added weight. Wheel weights are cheap and can be had at most tire stores.
Recycle yards
I found used lead at the local recycle yards. It was cheep @ .50 per pound. But it also contained some dirt, steel and plastic pieces.
I found used lead at the local recycle yards. It was cheep @ .50 per pound. But it also contained some dirt, steel and plastic pieces.
I would do the math...
That original engine was actually not that heavy. Deduct the outboard weight factor. You have a very trim 28. Maybe 200# difference. I would look into moving some of the existing weight back but I would never add ballast. I absolutly would not add weight that was not attached! That becomes dangerous. If you carry two extra people in the cockpit that would be about the same displacement as the boat would have had with the old sail drive I think I would just enjoy the lighter boat. It probably sails better than most 28's r.w.landau
That original engine was actually not that heavy. Deduct the outboard weight factor. You have a very trim 28. Maybe 200# difference. I would look into moving some of the existing weight back but I would never add ballast. I absolutly would not add weight that was not attached! That becomes dangerous. If you carry two extra people in the cockpit that would be about the same displacement as the boat would have had with the old sail drive I think I would just enjoy the lighter boat. It probably sails better than most 28's r.w.landau
ballast
Myself I'd try to make whatever I used be useable weight, batteries are good, water tanks are ok, but not a constant weight so trim will change, better to keep them where they're nuetral as far as trim changes. what can you move around to balance her a little better? I mean if you have some permanantly installed equipment towards the bow can you move it towards the stern? I hate dedicating useable space on a boat to simple weight, something very few people ever have too much of on a boat. Also, how is the trim with a normal crew and provisions? ken.
Myself I'd try to make whatever I used be useable weight, batteries are good, water tanks are ok, but not a constant weight so trim will change, better to keep them where they're nuetral as far as trim changes. what can you move around to balance her a little better? I mean if you have some permanantly installed equipment towards the bow can you move it towards the stern? I hate dedicating useable space on a boat to simple weight, something very few people ever have too much of on a boat. Also, how is the trim with a normal crew and provisions? ken.
OK...more information...this is good...
RW...I can assume that the boat WITH the engine still had two people in the cockpit as my boat WITHOUT the engine
. But you do bring up a great point...I don't know the weight of the original engine. Remember that my BIG issue is that with the added weight gone and now the higher stern, my outboard engine will not sit any deeper in the water than the cavitation plate. ANY water motion would lift the prop clean out of the water. And that not's good. Ken...long story, but we haven't had people on the boat since the new motor mount was installed. It was only when I put the outboard on the mount that I found out I had a problem. It's getting the motor low enough in the water that's my real issue. I really don't want to move the motor mount as it would be a good deal of work for only 4 inches deeper in the water, when I really need 9. I am now thinking that a combination is the best solution: Move the motor mount, provision boat (water, fuel) and add wife! See how it sits and put additional weight. Of course, if anyone would be willing to buy a new Yanmar saildrive for me, I promise not to let anybody on this forum know.
RW...I can assume that the boat WITH the engine still had two people in the cockpit as my boat WITHOUT the engine
. But you do bring up a great point...I don't know the weight of the original engine. Remember that my BIG issue is that with the added weight gone and now the higher stern, my outboard engine will not sit any deeper in the water than the cavitation plate. ANY water motion would lift the prop clean out of the water. And that not's good. Ken...long story, but we haven't had people on the boat since the new motor mount was installed. It was only when I put the outboard on the mount that I found out I had a problem. It's getting the motor low enough in the water that's my real issue. I really don't want to move the motor mount as it would be a good deal of work for only 4 inches deeper in the water, when I really need 9. I am now thinking that a combination is the best solution: Move the motor mount, provision boat (water, fuel) and add wife! See how it sits and put additional weight. Of course, if anyone would be willing to buy a new Yanmar saildrive for me, I promise not to let anybody on this forum know.A couple of thoughts...
Have you checked to see if there is some extra weight up front? If the PO did such radical modification to the back half, I'd suspect there might be something non-stock at the pointy end too. Under way, the stern will tend to settle some, and I think that with the weight of people in the cockpit as well, you won't have nearly as dramatic a condition as at rest. Also, though it's normally not considered a good location, you might consider moving the battery way back in a stern locker.
Have you checked to see if there is some extra weight up front? If the PO did such radical modification to the back half, I'd suspect there might be something non-stock at the pointy end too. Under way, the stern will tend to settle some, and I think that with the weight of people in the cockpit as well, you won't have nearly as dramatic a condition as at rest. Also, though it's normally not considered a good location, you might consider moving the battery way back in a stern locker.
Flyhop,
What is mounted in the bow of the boat? Was the orginal battery in the bow and where are the water and waste tanks? Could they be moved back? Your Motor mount doesn't look like it is dropping the motor to the full extent. Send a picture to the manufacturer and ask if this is the max extension. If it is the max extension, I would move the top bolt hole to the bottom bolt hole, fill the top ones and drill new one lower.(Edited: never mind it doesn't look like you can drop the motor mount much. Your stern was not ment to have an outboard either.) Flyhop, this same thing happened to a friend of mine. Look into the motor mount with the greater travel. Sorry but it will cost you a little more. Same brand but longer throw. r.w.
What is mounted in the bow of the boat? Was the orginal battery in the bow and where are the water and waste tanks? Could they be moved back? Your Motor mount doesn't look like it is dropping the motor to the full extent. Send a picture to the manufacturer and ask if this is the max extension. If it is the max extension, I would move the top bolt hole to the bottom bolt hole, fill the top ones and drill new one lower.(Edited: never mind it doesn't look like you can drop the motor mount much. Your stern was not ment to have an outboard either.) Flyhop, this same thing happened to a friend of mine. Look into the motor mount with the greater travel. Sorry but it will cost you a little more. Same brand but longer throw. r.w.
A couple of thoughts...
Have you checked to see if there is some extra weight up front? If the PO did such radical modification to the back half, I'd suspect there might be something non-stock at the pointy end too. Under way, the stern will tend to settle some, and I think that with the weight of people in the cockpit as well, you won't have nearly as dramatic a condition as at rest. Also, though it's normally not considered a good location, you might consider moving the battery way back in a stern locker.
Have you checked to see if there is some extra weight up front? If the PO did such radical modification to the back half, I'd suspect there might be something non-stock at the pointy end too. Under way, the stern will tend to settle some, and I think that with the weight of people in the cockpit as well, you won't have nearly as dramatic a condition as at rest. Also, though it's normally not considered a good location, you might consider moving the battery way back in a stern locker.
Balance
OK Batteries and water can solve most of your prolem. A couple of good batteries, and one of the flexible water tanks will go a long way. Then to finish it off and really get it right, buy you a couple of bags of lead shot. ( Gun Store) These don't take up much space, can be moved around to experiment with and will pretty well stay where you put them,
OK Batteries and water can solve most of your prolem. A couple of good batteries, and one of the flexible water tanks will go a long way. Then to finish it off and really get it right, buy you a couple of bags of lead shot. ( Gun Store) These don't take up much space, can be moved around to experiment with and will pretty well stay where you put them,
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