My partner & I purchased an '87 272 this summer and we need to do hull, etc. maintenance this Fall. We have researched as many articles or responses on letting masts down safely (or unsafe as it could be) but have not seen one written on the 272. The mast step does not appear to be hinged like others I have read about. Instead it may slide forward into a yoke and is secured with a pin aft side. Our boat is on a TVA lake with a ramp /launch facility only. There are no hoists, cranes and the like available (unless we hire). Has anyone tried this before? Any suggestions on how to lower the mast would be greatly appreciated. We have considered using brute force (weak minds/strong backs) but my partner laid his bike down recently and has many more weeks to recup. from his injuries.
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Don Evans
Email Alphonse Guardino
Ken, if you write this very knowledgeable Oday 27 owner, he can describe his modification to his mast step so that you can convert to a hinged setup. He has a website with photos showing his method of mast raising and lowering, and even has the name of the marina that made this step, I think it was Bellpat marina? How was the mast stepped by the previous owner? Can you leave it up for this winter, and deal with it if you deside to add a new hinged mast step? Als' email is guardino@ix.netcom.com Good luck, Don
Ken, if you write this very knowledgeable Oday 27 owner, he can describe his modification to his mast step so that you can convert to a hinged setup. He has a website with photos showing his method of mast raising and lowering, and even has the name of the marina that made this step, I think it was Bellpat marina? How was the mast stepped by the previous owner? Can you leave it up for this winter, and deal with it if you deside to add a new hinged mast step? Als' email is guardino@ix.netcom.com Good luck, Don
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Ken Roddenberry
Thanks Don
Thanks for your response. I will try to get in touch with A. Guardino. Converting to a hinged setup is what we will probably do this winter. The boat is over an hour travel time from home and over three mountain ridges. So the mast must come down. Thanks again, Ken
Thanks for your response. I will try to get in touch with A. Guardino. Converting to a hinged setup is what we will probably do this winter. The boat is over an hour travel time from home and over three mountain ridges. So the mast must come down. Thanks again, Ken
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Dan Tobin
Build a jig
Ken, I've seen a couple of postings where people have built an "A" frame to help step/unstep their masts in lieu of a gin pole. I can't remember where I've seen the drawings (I thought they were on this site, but I can't locate them now). What you end up with is an "A" frame whose height is slightly higher than the pivot point on the mast. For my OD27, this is just above the spreaders. At the top of the frame you would need to install a block for you lifting line to come through, which could run down to a purchase or to one of your winches. Keep in mind that the frame will need to be strong enough to support the full weight of the mast. I believe my 27's mast weighs somewhere around 160 lbs. If built with bolts, the whole thing could be disassembled and stowed on the trailer. You could use this type of system until the modifications to your mast step can be made. Does anyone else know where the drawings for this type of stepping system are? Don?
Ken, I've seen a couple of postings where people have built an "A" frame to help step/unstep their masts in lieu of a gin pole. I can't remember where I've seen the drawings (I thought they were on this site, but I can't locate them now). What you end up with is an "A" frame whose height is slightly higher than the pivot point on the mast. For my OD27, this is just above the spreaders. At the top of the frame you would need to install a block for you lifting line to come through, which could run down to a purchase or to one of your winches. Keep in mind that the frame will need to be strong enough to support the full weight of the mast. I believe my 27's mast weighs somewhere around 160 lbs. If built with bolts, the whole thing could be disassembled and stowed on the trailer. You could use this type of system until the modifications to your mast step can be made. Does anyone else know where the drawings for this type of stepping system are? Don?
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Tom Ehmke
272 mast stepping
I'd like to know how to put together a gin pole or other mast raising assembly for my 272 also. The cost to unstep the mast just went up this season and now I am ready to try it myself. I do know that raising the mast using a hoist and a couple of able-bodied marina workers can be difficult because of the pin and lock method used to align and secure the mast on the 272. I always worry that something will snap until the mast is standing and the rigging is supporting it. It's so darned hard to align the mast and step. 'nough said. At one time someone had some pix of a "how-to" on this topic somewhere on this site. Anyone know if it's still around?
I'd like to know how to put together a gin pole or other mast raising assembly for my 272 also. The cost to unstep the mast just went up this season and now I am ready to try it myself. I do know that raising the mast using a hoist and a couple of able-bodied marina workers can be difficult because of the pin and lock method used to align and secure the mast on the 272. I always worry that something will snap until the mast is standing and the rigging is supporting it. It's so darned hard to align the mast and step. 'nough said. At one time someone had some pix of a "how-to" on this topic somewhere on this site. Anyone know if it's still around?
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Ben Allen
Gin Pole Specs
Ken, The following is a post that I had a couple of weeks ago, it was asked if you could step the mast while on the water. The process is the same on the trailer, you just don't rock around. It is quiet easy to step your mast while on the water or the trailer. O'Day has a system that is well documented for stepping the mast forward. The system I use involves 2 sections of 1" electrical conduit, joined at one end with a bolt (but not very tight), place some rubber caps on the other ends and place one end just forward of each chainplate on the deck. Next, attach a block to your stem fitting and run a line from a winch, forward through the block and attach to the bolt on the gin pole, (the electrical conduit). Bring your jib halyard forward and attach to the bow pulpit. Disconnect the forstay and attach this to the gin pole bolt. After disconnecting the jib halyard, you are ready to lower the mast to the rear using the winch to take the friction on the line to control the drop. Keeping everyone weight as centered as possible, have some stand in the rear of the boat on top of the seats to take the mast as it gets to the bottom. Here is a photo of a Catalina 25 performing this operation in his slip. I did it with my OD 26 last week. http://www.best.com/~c25c250/restricted/bearsad1.html Hope this helps, Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
Ken, The following is a post that I had a couple of weeks ago, it was asked if you could step the mast while on the water. The process is the same on the trailer, you just don't rock around. It is quiet easy to step your mast while on the water or the trailer. O'Day has a system that is well documented for stepping the mast forward. The system I use involves 2 sections of 1" electrical conduit, joined at one end with a bolt (but not very tight), place some rubber caps on the other ends and place one end just forward of each chainplate on the deck. Next, attach a block to your stem fitting and run a line from a winch, forward through the block and attach to the bolt on the gin pole, (the electrical conduit). Bring your jib halyard forward and attach to the bow pulpit. Disconnect the forstay and attach this to the gin pole bolt. After disconnecting the jib halyard, you are ready to lower the mast to the rear using the winch to take the friction on the line to control the drop. Keeping everyone weight as centered as possible, have some stand in the rear of the boat on top of the seats to take the mast as it gets to the bottom. Here is a photo of a Catalina 25 performing this operation in his slip. I did it with my OD 26 last week. http://www.best.com/~c25c250/restricted/bearsad1.html Hope this helps, Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
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Don Evans
The A Frame Worked Well For Me Also
Using Bens method, I was successfull in bringing down the mast this fall. I made an A frame from 2X4 's. I think this will be my method of choice from now on, as it dropped as straight as I've seen. I used wood only because I had no time to investigate other materials such as the conduit mentioned. Next spring I may try another frameing material. I also made the mast crutch to catch the mast at the stern, at the 7' height from the cockpit floor. Dan mentioned the weight of the mast as being 160 lbs. Did you mean to say 60? Mine weighs about 70 lbs. The 2 boats are only slightly different in dimensions. Don
Using Bens method, I was successfull in bringing down the mast this fall. I made an A frame from 2X4 's. I think this will be my method of choice from now on, as it dropped as straight as I've seen. I used wood only because I had no time to investigate other materials such as the conduit mentioned. Next spring I may try another frameing material. I also made the mast crutch to catch the mast at the stern, at the 7' height from the cockpit floor. Dan mentioned the weight of the mast as being 160 lbs. Did you mean to say 60? Mine weighs about 70 lbs. The 2 boats are only slightly different in dimensions. Don
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Tom Ehmke
mast stepping 272 to Ben and Don
Guys, I've corresponded with Ken about this. We both have the same problems which we hope you can address. The first one is the mast step itself. It is pinned into place and must be moved aft to pivot. Is this the same arrangement that you have on your boats? (I worry about breaking the pin) Second, both of us have roller furling on the forestay which can be easily damaged (kinked) if the foils aren't kept aligned in a straight line and taut. You suggest tying the jib halyard to the A-frame. No can do. I can visualize the principle, but get stuck in the how to's at this point. Tom Ehmke
Guys, I've corresponded with Ken about this. We both have the same problems which we hope you can address. The first one is the mast step itself. It is pinned into place and must be moved aft to pivot. Is this the same arrangement that you have on your boats? (I worry about breaking the pin) Second, both of us have roller furling on the forestay which can be easily damaged (kinked) if the foils aren't kept aligned in a straight line and taut. You suggest tying the jib halyard to the A-frame. No can do. I can visualize the principle, but get stuck in the how to's at this point. Tom Ehmke
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Ben Allen
Reponse for Ken
Ken, The mast step on the OD 26 has two pins, fore and aft, I remove the foward pin and the mast hinges to the rear. As far as your RF is concerned, you can use your main sail halyard as a temporary support while you disconnect your forstay. In your case, you will need to have someone hold downward pressure on the RF drum to keep the tube as straight as possible while lowering the mast. The principles are all the same, you just have to be a little more cautious when working with a non-flexible furler. I hope this cleared up some of your questions instead of creating more. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
Ken, The mast step on the OD 26 has two pins, fore and aft, I remove the foward pin and the mast hinges to the rear. As far as your RF is concerned, you can use your main sail halyard as a temporary support while you disconnect your forstay. In your case, you will need to have someone hold downward pressure on the RF drum to keep the tube as straight as possible while lowering the mast. The principles are all the same, you just have to be a little more cautious when working with a non-flexible furler. I hope this cleared up some of your questions instead of creating more. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
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Don Evans
Something Needs to Be Confirmed Here
I believe the 2 mast steps are different. Bens' (26) and mine (25)are the same, as Ben has described. I believe, though the stock 272 mast step is different, and does not allow the self raising, hinging effect, either for or aft, as our is. I believe you have to replace this step with one similar to ours. As I mentioned earlier, Alphonse Guaradino has had his, and others in his marina, made by Bellpat Marine and has a website demonstrating this. Go to http://members.aol.com/aguardino/ginpole/ This will show you the modification to the tabernacle and the standing rigging. Its an excellent site for all 272 owners. Don
I believe the 2 mast steps are different. Bens' (26) and mine (25)are the same, as Ben has described. I believe, though the stock 272 mast step is different, and does not allow the self raising, hinging effect, either for or aft, as our is. I believe you have to replace this step with one similar to ours. As I mentioned earlier, Alphonse Guaradino has had his, and others in his marina, made by Bellpat Marine and has a website demonstrating this. Go to http://members.aol.com/aguardino/ginpole/ This will show you the modification to the tabernacle and the standing rigging. Its an excellent site for all 272 owners. Don
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Ken Roddenberry
Final Questions?
Fellows, Thanks for all of the ideas and info. I feel that the A frame gin would probably be the best idea. I plan on using 2x4x8's bolted together at the top (with space to affix rings); anchoring of this A frame still puzzles me. Ben, you "placed one end just forward of each chainplate on the deck". How is it that you fixed its position? Next, I understand that I must stabilize the forward position of the mast while unhooking the forestay/RF. Question? Does the A frame pivot forward to the block? or does it stay vertical? I believe it would have to pivot or lay forward to the bow. Right? A line is run from the cockpit winch thru the forward block which is attached to the top of A frame. You then have either the forestay or a halyard from the mast attached to the top of the A frame. Then you feed the line thru the block which lowers the mast aft (and causes the A frame to reach vertical). Ok? Since our mast is not hinged, I'll move the mast aft (on to a carpet piece). Next, I plan to tie lines from the base of the mast to cleats on starboard and port sides aft to minimize kick-out of the mast. Loosen shrouds. One person stationed at mast step, one in the cockpit and a third with a pole yoked to the mast. I hope this does it. Thanks again, ken
Fellows, Thanks for all of the ideas and info. I feel that the A frame gin would probably be the best idea. I plan on using 2x4x8's bolted together at the top (with space to affix rings); anchoring of this A frame still puzzles me. Ben, you "placed one end just forward of each chainplate on the deck". How is it that you fixed its position? Next, I understand that I must stabilize the forward position of the mast while unhooking the forestay/RF. Question? Does the A frame pivot forward to the block? or does it stay vertical? I believe it would have to pivot or lay forward to the bow. Right? A line is run from the cockpit winch thru the forward block which is attached to the top of A frame. You then have either the forestay or a halyard from the mast attached to the top of the A frame. Then you feed the line thru the block which lowers the mast aft (and causes the A frame to reach vertical). Ok? Since our mast is not hinged, I'll move the mast aft (on to a carpet piece). Next, I plan to tie lines from the base of the mast to cleats on starboard and port sides aft to minimize kick-out of the mast. Loosen shrouds. One person stationed at mast step, one in the cockpit and a third with a pole yoked to the mast. I hope this does it. Thanks again, ken
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Ben Allen
Stepping Mast
Ken, I'll try to give as much detail as possible. First, take Don's advise and get a mast step that hinges, the reason being, that once the mast lowers past 45 degrees, there will be a substancial amount of forward pressure at the step. As for as anchoring the base of the A frame, on the OD 26, I use 9' sections of 1" electrical conduit,you might need 10', and place a rubber cap on each end, then place each leg of the A frame in front of the chain plate, the toe rail keeps it from sliding out. Don has made an attachment hinge which fits to his toe rail. With the mast in the vertical position, lay the A frame forward, where it is bolted together, should come to the bow stem fitting. Run your line from one of the rear winches, up to the block at the stem fitting, take it through the block and bring it up. Attach it to the A frame at this point. I worded this next part incorrectly before, but you figured it out. With the main halyard tied to the bow pulpit as a safety, disconnect the forestay, if this can be done with your RF attached, and connect the forstay to the A frame, at the same place you attached the line. SLOWLY release the main halyard and take up tension on the line at the winch with a couple of wraps. As the mast starts to lower, the weight of the mast should keep the RF tube straight enough until you can attach it to the mast in the lowered position. Once the mast has started to come down, by all means stay on the side of the cockpit in case something breaks. The rear support needs to be at least 7' off the cockpit floor for the mast to rest on. This is clear the hatch and mostly to assist when stepping the mast. Something that Don mentioned, be sure to loosen the upper and side stays a little be fore lowering, a pay careful attention to the turnbuckles when stepping the mast. When the mast is resting on the bow pullpit and stern pushpit, you have to walk the base back the step. If the turnbuckles are turned wrong, you can bend them double real quick. I know this is long winded, but if you have any other question, please ask. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
Ken, I'll try to give as much detail as possible. First, take Don's advise and get a mast step that hinges, the reason being, that once the mast lowers past 45 degrees, there will be a substancial amount of forward pressure at the step. As for as anchoring the base of the A frame, on the OD 26, I use 9' sections of 1" electrical conduit,you might need 10', and place a rubber cap on each end, then place each leg of the A frame in front of the chain plate, the toe rail keeps it from sliding out. Don has made an attachment hinge which fits to his toe rail. With the mast in the vertical position, lay the A frame forward, where it is bolted together, should come to the bow stem fitting. Run your line from one of the rear winches, up to the block at the stem fitting, take it through the block and bring it up. Attach it to the A frame at this point. I worded this next part incorrectly before, but you figured it out. With the main halyard tied to the bow pulpit as a safety, disconnect the forestay, if this can be done with your RF attached, and connect the forstay to the A frame, at the same place you attached the line. SLOWLY release the main halyard and take up tension on the line at the winch with a couple of wraps. As the mast starts to lower, the weight of the mast should keep the RF tube straight enough until you can attach it to the mast in the lowered position. Once the mast has started to come down, by all means stay on the side of the cockpit in case something breaks. The rear support needs to be at least 7' off the cockpit floor for the mast to rest on. This is clear the hatch and mostly to assist when stepping the mast. Something that Don mentioned, be sure to loosen the upper and side stays a little be fore lowering, a pay careful attention to the turnbuckles when stepping the mast. When the mast is resting on the bow pullpit and stern pushpit, you have to walk the base back the step. If the turnbuckles are turned wrong, you can bend them double real quick. I know this is long winded, but if you have any other question, please ask. Ben Allen Montgomery, AL "Wahoo" OD 26
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Ben Allen
One Additional Comment
Ken, Yes, the A frame pivits upward as the mast comes down. It is nothing more than a large pivit point, but it helps the mast stay in a straight line all the way down. Ben
Ken, Yes, the A frame pivits upward as the mast comes down. It is nothing more than a large pivit point, but it helps the mast stay in a straight line all the way down. Ben
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Dan Tobin
Don Evans- re: Mast Weight
Don, In my previous post, I estimated my mast weight to be around 160lbs. When I consider the mast, two winches, 3 halyards, topping lift, shrouds/stays and the roller furler, I believe that my estimate of weight is in the right ballpark. One of my kids weighs ~80lbs, and this seems about the same as lifting one end of the mast, so my method for estimating is not very scientific. I also helped step a mast on a C&C 29, and it was a monster compared to mine! When I uncover the boat in the spring, I'll take down a scale and lift half of the mast just to satisfy my curiosity. Dan
Don, In my previous post, I estimated my mast weight to be around 160lbs. When I consider the mast, two winches, 3 halyards, topping lift, shrouds/stays and the roller furler, I believe that my estimate of weight is in the right ballpark. One of my kids weighs ~80lbs, and this seems about the same as lifting one end of the mast, so my method for estimating is not very scientific. I also helped step a mast on a C&C 29, and it was a monster compared to mine! When I uncover the boat in the spring, I'll take down a scale and lift half of the mast just to satisfy my curiosity. Dan
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