Hello out there, I'm trying to decide whether I should install a pedestal steering column on my Mac 26S. Whether it will make my sailing more enjoyable and/or if it'll take too much space in the cockpit? I also need as much info with respect to parts necessary and recommended installations. The other thing I was wondering is if the steering column could also be able to control the outboard (any outboard or does it need to be a special outboard?) and how would I need to go about installing the entire thing. Any suggestions, web sites, manufacturers, books on this type of installation, reference materials, anything at all would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks, -Sean
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Len
Wheel Steering
This question has come up several times before. I have a wheel on my '94 26S that was installed by the previous owner at the time of the original purchase. I love it. It actually takes less room than swinging a tiller around. I like standing up behind it. Steering with a bad shoulder is much easier.And it looks good.The dual controls for the outboard are mounted on the sides of the column. I also have a compass at the top of the column and electronics mounted on the stand. My unit is an Edson and they have the plans and all the parts for the conversion. I just talked to them about it at the Strictly Sail Show. It is not inexpensive.The conversion will cost between $1500 and $2000. Good luck.
This question has come up several times before. I have a wheel on my '94 26S that was installed by the previous owner at the time of the original purchase. I love it. It actually takes less room than swinging a tiller around. I like standing up behind it. Steering with a bad shoulder is much easier.And it looks good.The dual controls for the outboard are mounted on the sides of the column. I also have a compass at the top of the column and electronics mounted on the stand. My unit is an Edson and they have the plans and all the parts for the conversion. I just talked to them about it at the Strictly Sail Show. It is not inexpensive.The conversion will cost between $1500 and $2000. Good luck.
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Sean
Wheel Steering
Len, Thanks for your response. Yeah you're right, the tiller does take quite a bit of space on its own. Last season, my back paid a little price as well, and so I started thinking about this mod as well as adding a furling system, bimini and a new outboard, but 1500-2000 for just the steering seems a bit pricey...doesn't it? How does the control lines connect to your outboard? Is there a special servo that connects to it or is there a special outboard that the controller only works with? The cost you mentioned, is that just for the parts, or is that installed? I guess I can contact them directly for the details. thanks for responding, as well as the link. -Sean p.s. April 1st the USS Cousin Larry officially comes out of dry dock, don’t you love the irony, April Fools Day we set sail!
Len, Thanks for your response. Yeah you're right, the tiller does take quite a bit of space on its own. Last season, my back paid a little price as well, and so I started thinking about this mod as well as adding a furling system, bimini and a new outboard, but 1500-2000 for just the steering seems a bit pricey...doesn't it? How does the control lines connect to your outboard? Is there a special servo that connects to it or is there a special outboard that the controller only works with? The cost you mentioned, is that just for the parts, or is that installed? I guess I can contact them directly for the details. thanks for responding, as well as the link. -Sean p.s. April 1st the USS Cousin Larry officially comes out of dry dock, don’t you love the irony, April Fools Day we set sail!
Its kinda like apples and oranges...
My former boat was a 92 Mac-S and it seemed so "original" having the tiller. I liked it, and wouldnt have changed it. My present boat, a Mac-X has the steering system, which I like very much. In my opinion, the Mac-S has class with a tiller...and when at anchor, the tiller can be propped up...and totally out of the way within the cockpit for plenty of room--camping, fishing, sitting under the bimini, or just relaxing on the water. I would keep the tiller, and put the $$ in electronics, etc. Happy Sailing...
My former boat was a 92 Mac-S and it seemed so "original" having the tiller. I liked it, and wouldnt have changed it. My present boat, a Mac-X has the steering system, which I like very much. In my opinion, the Mac-S has class with a tiller...and when at anchor, the tiller can be propped up...and totally out of the way within the cockpit for plenty of room--camping, fishing, sitting under the bimini, or just relaxing on the water. I would keep the tiller, and put the $$ in electronics, etc. Happy Sailing...
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Sean
Edson Doesn't Offer Steering Solution Mac 26S
Well, I just finished speaking to the Edson rep and he explained that they don't offer a solution for the steering/pedestal on the older MacGregors. They've stopped production on the mechanism they used to offer. My last ditch is to contact MacGregor, to see if they offer a retrofit package. Any other ideas out there would be greatly appreciated!!! All else fails, I might just have to follow the orchard mentality (apples and oranges) and be content using the tiller...who knows, we'll see. -Sean
Well, I just finished speaking to the Edson rep and he explained that they don't offer a solution for the steering/pedestal on the older MacGregors. They've stopped production on the mechanism they used to offer. My last ditch is to contact MacGregor, to see if they offer a retrofit package. Any other ideas out there would be greatly appreciated!!! All else fails, I might just have to follow the orchard mentality (apples and oranges) and be content using the tiller...who knows, we'll see. -Sean
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Greg
Tiller
Just a few thoughts before you convert. A tiller responds much faster than a wheel. A tiller gives more feed back (how much weather or lee helm you have). You can fall off much faster with a tiller in a gust that with a wheel. More parts to break, more chance of it breaking. More cockpit room at anchor with the tiller. Less maintance. Cheaper. A wheel will not increase the value of your boat as much as it costs. Your choise though!
Just a few thoughts before you convert. A tiller responds much faster than a wheel. A tiller gives more feed back (how much weather or lee helm you have). You can fall off much faster with a tiller in a gust that with a wheel. More parts to break, more chance of it breaking. More cockpit room at anchor with the tiller. Less maintance. Cheaper. A wheel will not increase the value of your boat as much as it costs. Your choise though!
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Corbin
Photos?
Len, Could you post some pictures of your setup? I have been thinking of setting my 91s up the same way.
Len, Could you post some pictures of your setup? I have been thinking of setting my 91s up the same way.
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Sean
Tiller
Greg, You're right, that's what I've heard from most around the sailing community, even from MacGregor. They all say that you get a much better "feel" and response with the tiller. My real reason for the conversion though is that I'm planning on going on long(er) trips, and I'm thinking a wheel would be kinder on my back and shoulder, but I guess a tiller tamer could also do the trick. I purchased my boat last season(first sailboat ever) and when we took her out on the Bay, and were cruising with some strong winds the tiller felt like it might snap. It started to bend some (I'm not sure if that's normal or not) but that was also part of my consideration to go the wheel rout. I'd hate to have a tiller snap on me in the middle of the bay.(I guess I should have a spare tiller or substitute onboard) -Sean
Greg, You're right, that's what I've heard from most around the sailing community, even from MacGregor. They all say that you get a much better "feel" and response with the tiller. My real reason for the conversion though is that I'm planning on going on long(er) trips, and I'm thinking a wheel would be kinder on my back and shoulder, but I guess a tiller tamer could also do the trick. I purchased my boat last season(first sailboat ever) and when we took her out on the Bay, and were cruising with some strong winds the tiller felt like it might snap. It started to bend some (I'm not sure if that's normal or not) but that was also part of my consideration to go the wheel rout. I'd hate to have a tiller snap on me in the middle of the bay.(I guess I should have a spare tiller or substitute onboard) -Sean
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Len
wheel steering
Sean the info from Edson is correct they do not list a warranted package conversion. However, if you want to build your own they catalog all the parts you would need.But is it a smart investment? I have the original invoice ($21308) from the original owners and in '94 it was a $2000 installed add.Would I go through all the work and expense to make the conversion today----No.Spend your money on electronics, safety equipment or a good sailing class. The outboard is not steered by the wheel , only the rudders are. The motor controls are throttle and forward/reverse.I still have to push the start button on the motor and tilt it by hand.I don't have any good pictures to share and it is a little hard to get to the boat right now. I may in the near future take some detailed pictures, gather other details and post it all. Good luck and happy sailing.
Sean the info from Edson is correct they do not list a warranted package conversion. However, if you want to build your own they catalog all the parts you would need.But is it a smart investment? I have the original invoice ($21308) from the original owners and in '94 it was a $2000 installed add.Would I go through all the work and expense to make the conversion today----No.Spend your money on electronics, safety equipment or a good sailing class. The outboard is not steered by the wheel , only the rudders are. The motor controls are throttle and forward/reverse.I still have to push the start button on the motor and tilt it by hand.I don't have any good pictures to share and it is a little hard to get to the boat right now. I may in the near future take some detailed pictures, gather other details and post it all. Good luck and happy sailing.
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Sean
Wheel Steering - and a few other questions..
I hear ya Len, The more I think about it the more it seems that the tiller is my best bet, at least for now and with this boat. New outboard, electronics, bimini, and all the rigging to be able to sail her single handed are the priorities now. I've got my hands full just with the rigging. Other things: Do you guise have any suggestions how to go about getting SS tubing for the aft deck, over and around the transom? I'm thinking of adding safety (don't know exactly what it's called) bars around the back and link them up to the safety lines on the sides. Is this something you can have a machine shop bend for you if you give them the specs, or is there a specialist that handles these type of things that would be better to go to? I'm also planning to add a bimini, so the SS tubing would come in handy for that as well. I'm pretty capable at making things, I'm just wondering if it's preferable to make it yourself or go "off-the-shelf"? Thanks everyone for the suggestions. -Sean
I hear ya Len, The more I think about it the more it seems that the tiller is my best bet, at least for now and with this boat. New outboard, electronics, bimini, and all the rigging to be able to sail her single handed are the priorities now. I've got my hands full just with the rigging. Other things: Do you guise have any suggestions how to go about getting SS tubing for the aft deck, over and around the transom? I'm thinking of adding safety (don't know exactly what it's called) bars around the back and link them up to the safety lines on the sides. Is this something you can have a machine shop bend for you if you give them the specs, or is there a specialist that handles these type of things that would be better to go to? I'm also planning to add a bimini, so the SS tubing would come in handy for that as well. I'm pretty capable at making things, I'm just wondering if it's preferable to make it yourself or go "off-the-shelf"? Thanks everyone for the suggestions. -Sean
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Steve Paul
Stern rail
You're looking for a stern rail. There are many places out there that will make you one. won't be cheap but check em out. I'm sure tubing is available at a decent price if you have the right welding and bending equipment could be a low cost project. See if you can find a photo of a mac 26S or like. My 26S had a factory rail and it was very nice and was the anchor point to the lifelines that were extended past the normal mid-gunnel point. Much safer. Steve
You're looking for a stern rail. There are many places out there that will make you one. won't be cheap but check em out. I'm sure tubing is available at a decent price if you have the right welding and bending equipment could be a low cost project. See if you can find a photo of a mac 26S or like. My 26S had a factory rail and it was very nice and was the anchor point to the lifelines that were extended past the normal mid-gunnel point. Much safer. Steve
Stern rail done inexpensively
I long ago described how I made a stainless tubing full cockpit surround for my 1974 V222, but I don't recall if it was on this forum or another. Aparently worth a repeat. The finished job was beautiful and helped immensely to sell the boat. 7/8th inch s.s. tube is less expensive than one inch and is plenty strong enough. 1. Buy and install bases in one shape, round or rectangular, that will fit in all possible places you want an upright for your rail. It looks best if they are all the same. Place bases for uprights in places where the the upright wil lnot interfere with winch handles, elbows or line leads. I'd suggeest a distance no greater than four feet between uprights. 2. Measure the distance required in feet to cover the space between all uprights. Buy lengths of tubing that will cover this distance and a little more. 3. Buy T fittings for all but the two end uprights. 4. Decide how you want the tubing to end and buy fittings appropriate for that. 5. Cut a cardboard pattern to the shape where you wnat the bends to be and mark the center of the bend on the cardboard. 6. I'm not joking now, this is the way I bent the tubing. Find a twin tree, that is two trees growing from one base, or a tree that has a fork near the ground. Either way, the trunk just have a diameter of ten to twelve inches for a bend of that radius. Six to eight iniches ro a bend of that arc. I do not suggest trying a bend of less than six inches radius. Place the tubing between the trunks or fork sides at the bottom of the V, where they are closest, with the center mark of the bend you want on the tubing placed where the tubing meets the bark of the tree. Now pull the bubing horizontally from the longest end against the tree trunk. when it gets to the approximate angle or bend, check it against your pattern. I've done this twice with s.s. tubing and most recently with aluminum to install a custom fit oversize bimini on my M26X. With careful thought you can avoid unnecessary tubing left over. I had only 26" of waste in doing two boats, ordering various standard lengths from the tubing suppliers. Hope this helps.
I long ago described how I made a stainless tubing full cockpit surround for my 1974 V222, but I don't recall if it was on this forum or another. Aparently worth a repeat. The finished job was beautiful and helped immensely to sell the boat. 7/8th inch s.s. tube is less expensive than one inch and is plenty strong enough. 1. Buy and install bases in one shape, round or rectangular, that will fit in all possible places you want an upright for your rail. It looks best if they are all the same. Place bases for uprights in places where the the upright wil lnot interfere with winch handles, elbows or line leads. I'd suggeest a distance no greater than four feet between uprights. 2. Measure the distance required in feet to cover the space between all uprights. Buy lengths of tubing that will cover this distance and a little more. 3. Buy T fittings for all but the two end uprights. 4. Decide how you want the tubing to end and buy fittings appropriate for that. 5. Cut a cardboard pattern to the shape where you wnat the bends to be and mark the center of the bend on the cardboard. 6. I'm not joking now, this is the way I bent the tubing. Find a twin tree, that is two trees growing from one base, or a tree that has a fork near the ground. Either way, the trunk just have a diameter of ten to twelve inches for a bend of that radius. Six to eight iniches ro a bend of that arc. I do not suggest trying a bend of less than six inches radius. Place the tubing between the trunks or fork sides at the bottom of the V, where they are closest, with the center mark of the bend you want on the tubing placed where the tubing meets the bark of the tree. Now pull the bubing horizontally from the longest end against the tree trunk. when it gets to the approximate angle or bend, check it against your pattern. I've done this twice with s.s. tubing and most recently with aluminum to install a custom fit oversize bimini on my M26X. With careful thought you can avoid unnecessary tubing left over. I had only 26" of waste in doing two boats, ordering various standard lengths from the tubing suppliers. Hope this helps.
Rudder Change recommendation...
Sean...I would recommend a modification to your 26-S, which has proven to be a good upgrade for the Mac 26S boat performance. You need to add about 2 1/2 inches of leading edge to the rudder. The boat will respond amazingly better. There is a manufacturer by the name of IDASAILOR...and you'll see the name in searches within this Forum and other Mac Forums. IDASAILOR has the specs if needed, and they manufacture a rudder upgrade if you decide to purchase it instead of modifying your existing Rudder...This modification isnt costly or difficult.
Sean...I would recommend a modification to your 26-S, which has proven to be a good upgrade for the Mac 26S boat performance. You need to add about 2 1/2 inches of leading edge to the rudder. The boat will respond amazingly better. There is a manufacturer by the name of IDASAILOR...and you'll see the name in searches within this Forum and other Mac Forums. IDASAILOR has the specs if needed, and they manufacture a rudder upgrade if you decide to purchase it instead of modifying your existing Rudder...This modification isnt costly or difficult.
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Ben -26S
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Sean
Do it yourself - Night Sailor
Night Sailor, I like how you found a good use for those miserable "v" shaped trees!(usually when they mature, they make a wish and then split - then I have to clean up the left over brush) Now, wouldn't a jig work better? I'm worried about scuffing the tube or not being able to get the angle just right..but I love the simplicity! Who did you get the fittings from, the base fittings and T fittings? Do you have any pictures? Blue Water Yachts is selling one pre made for $299, but I don't like the way it looks. I want to make an opening for the ladder just behind the transom. A sample of it is linked below.. -Sean
Night Sailor, I like how you found a good use for those miserable "v" shaped trees!(usually when they mature, they make a wish and then split - then I have to clean up the left over brush) Now, wouldn't a jig work better? I'm worried about scuffing the tube or not being able to get the angle just right..but I love the simplicity! Who did you get the fittings from, the base fittings and T fittings? Do you have any pictures? Blue Water Yachts is selling one pre made for $299, but I don't like the way it looks. I want to make an opening for the ladder just behind the transom. A sample of it is linked below.. -Sean
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Sean
Rudder Mod - Louis
Louis, I've seen this mod online and I've been considering it. When you did this, did it really make that much of a difference(less force on the tiller)? Did you do the build up yourself or did you buy the prefab version? It would be my first time working with fiberglass(a lot of firsts), but from what I hear it's not too difficult to work with, just lots of layering and sanding. They say that the shape is the most important thing(making it even on both sides) I guess that's obvious. They also suggest making it taller by 6", did you do that, did it help? There is another suggestion out there to just more hole where it mounts out by one inch(without the build up - link below). -Sean
Louis, I've seen this mod online and I've been considering it. When you did this, did it really make that much of a difference(less force on the tiller)? Did you do the build up yourself or did you buy the prefab version? It would be my first time working with fiberglass(a lot of firsts), but from what I hear it's not too difficult to work with, just lots of layering and sanding. They say that the shape is the most important thing(making it even on both sides) I guess that's obvious. They also suggest making it taller by 6", did you do that, did it help? There is another suggestion out there to just more hole where it mounts out by one inch(without the build up - link below). -Sean
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Ben
Most chandleries have them
Sean: I will install a custom made stern rail as soon as weather permits. I am considering a number of designs. My inclination is to build one that extents forward beyond where the original one stops (about 2 or 3 ft beyond the lazarrette). It will be easy to add backing plates to the stanchion bases that will be installed around the lazarrette but not to the one that will be forward of it. I was advised to use inspection ports or coaming boxes to access the inside of the coaming...I am thinking. I am thinking of going with 1" SS tubing ( same as the bow pulpit, I think) You can find the ss tubes fitting at most marine stores. Somebody posted the link below for a very interesting source for various boating supplies and they do sell SS tubing. Ben
Sean: I will install a custom made stern rail as soon as weather permits. I am considering a number of designs. My inclination is to build one that extents forward beyond where the original one stops (about 2 or 3 ft beyond the lazarrette). It will be easy to add backing plates to the stanchion bases that will be installed around the lazarrette but not to the one that will be forward of it. I was advised to use inspection ports or coaming boxes to access the inside of the coaming...I am thinking. I am thinking of going with 1" SS tubing ( same as the bow pulpit, I think) You can find the ss tubes fitting at most marine stores. Somebody posted the link below for a very interesting source for various boating supplies and they do sell SS tubing. Ben
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Sean
Coaming Access - Ben
Ben, I've been thinking about the access for the backing plates too. I haven't had a chance to look at it too carefully, but I've seen different ways to find access from the rear berth area...but that was mostly for the cockpit and not really the coaming. I'd appreciate it if you let me know what you end up doing, pictures, etc... my email is ha.ya.doin@gmail.com. By the way, thanks for the link for the s.s. tubing. -Sean
Ben, I've been thinking about the access for the backing plates too. I haven't had a chance to look at it too carefully, but I've seen different ways to find access from the rear berth area...but that was mostly for the cockpit and not really the coaming. I'd appreciate it if you let me know what you end up doing, pictures, etc... my email is ha.ya.doin@gmail.com. By the way, thanks for the link for the s.s. tubing. -Sean
Backing plates not needed
Ben wrote: How did you attach the upright bases. Have you used backing plates? That was 20 years ago, but as I remember, the top of the coaming was solid fiberglass adn quite thick (maybe 3/8") so I didn't think a backing plate was required. I did use reinforcing flat washers of about 1" diameter for each of the three s.s. machine screws. After install, nothing moved or wiggled. It was very solid. I could have made a jig, but I have four sets of twin oaks in my backyard and there was plenty of room to swing the pipe..... For leverage when bending shorter peices, slip a larger diameter pipe over the free end to increase your advantage. Incidentally, it did not damage the trees in any way, and each bend had exacty the same smooth shape. WestMarine, BoatBandit and many others sell the base fittings and tubing.
Ben wrote: How did you attach the upright bases. Have you used backing plates? That was 20 years ago, but as I remember, the top of the coaming was solid fiberglass adn quite thick (maybe 3/8") so I didn't think a backing plate was required. I did use reinforcing flat washers of about 1" diameter for each of the three s.s. machine screws. After install, nothing moved or wiggled. It was very solid. I could have made a jig, but I have four sets of twin oaks in my backyard and there was plenty of room to swing the pipe..... For leverage when bending shorter peices, slip a larger diameter pipe over the free end to increase your advantage. Incidentally, it did not damage the trees in any way, and each bend had exacty the same smooth shape. WestMarine, BoatBandit and many others sell the base fittings and tubing.
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Sean
Thanks Night Sailor
I love how simple you've kept the process. I'm checking into tubing from a local machinest and also the link Ben provided. I can't wait till spring! Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. -Sean
I love how simple you've kept the process. I'm checking into tubing from a local machinest and also the link Ben provided. I can't wait till spring! Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. -Sean
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