Steaming light or Bow light

[Dave M]

Right of Way

The original post never mentioned restricting the question to international waters. Sorry, I stand corrected. Semantics rule.But do whatever you want. Turn on all the lights. And always remember to tell everyone that will listen that 'powerboaters don't know the rules'.

 

[John Nantz]

Is This Rig Water-Legal?

Sort of related to the ongoing discussion here on what's legal and what isn't - came across this "boat" (see link) and, speaking of power boats, decided to check out his running lights.Behind the headlights appears to be a reddish color on *port* side and a greenish color on *stb'd* side. If so, wonder if these would meet the proper sector coverage.Also, don't see a steaming light. Maybe that automatically ejects like a radio antenna when the running lights are turned on. This thing will have to carry a bell, lifejackets, flares, anchor, etc.This is the solution to the commute problems in Puget Sound between the west side and Seattle! Four people could car pool and cut the commute time way down - in good weather. Just drive from home to the local boat launch and across the main channel to Shilshole and up their boat launch and then into downtown Seattle. Keep a spare suit in a dry zip-lock bag in the event of an accident.Gibbs - isn't this the same company that used to make sailboat hardware?

 

[alan]

Why would you shine a spotlight into a ...

...pilothouse or bridge deck at night? A quick flash is all it takes to ruin night vision. alan

 

[barrett]

alan...

You are not "shining" it into anyones eyes...done right it is seen as a "flash", or "Sweeping Movement of Light" and draws attention. It is much like a reflection of a mirror in the sunlight...or maybe the flash of a camera from across a stadium...Or it can be seen as a "swweping of light", like a cars headlights sweeping through the window at your darkened home some evening... you see it,but it doesn't blind you...the flash of the light attracts the eyes.You instinctively look for the source of the light unless your mind can say 'that was a car driving by'...Try it with a buddy boat in a dark anchorage even...you'll see what I mean...It works really well...and is one of the only active ways to try to attract attention, without flairs...You don't even have to use a hand held spot with alot of power... You can normally make your boat noticed with a regular flashlight, depending on conditions, and the other vessel will normally acknowledge...The fact of the matter though is if you are afraid of someone not seeing you, once you've drawn thier attention, you have accomplished your goal, even if you were to inhibit thier night vision temporarily, they will recover from it quickly and will have seen you. Lighting up your boat will not normally get you seen any better,because often the other vessels "watch" isn't watching,especially if it is of the size that really has you concerned.Lighting up your own boat will most certainly blind you,plus confuse your nav lights character... Putting lights on all over your boat is not the time honored method for a couple reasons...The lights easily get mixed up with background lights on shore, if coastal cruising.., and until most recently,off shore lighting up your boat wasn't even an option...Skippers used kero-lamps for nav lights that weren't to bright,and the sweeping of a hand held flashlight was very common...even today alot of boats(sail) can't afford the constant power drain unless motoring...For many,lighting up like a disco ball isn't even an option...Lin & Larry Pardey, Eric Hiscock, Donald Street, and I am sure others too, talk about this method in thier books,I didn't come up with it on my own... You'll notice these are all cruisers as am I...Normally when I want someone to see me,I am hundreds of miles off shore, and am trying to get a tanker or frieghter to see me, so they'll listen on the radio for me...(I like to get updated weather from them, sometimes check my position against what I have etc..)...If the "lookout" on a ship is not really looking out,and most are not when a large vessel is steaming at 25 knots in the middle of nowhere, even if I was to light Faithful up like a baseball park they won't notice it...There not even looking out there, and the don'texpect anything on the VHF,so often have it off or way down in volume...BUT a sweeping of light across their wheel house will make them look up and around, even if they are playing cards...It works..I'm not trying to lead anyone into danger here...I am sure there are very skilled sailors who have never heard of this or,have and disagree..thats fine...I'm just saying it gets you seen if that's your goal, and is a seamanlike method to do so.

 

[Joe]

My bar bet question......

.....was an attempt to poke a little fun at Barret's previous post "reply to Dan's reply". He kept saying "right away" instead of "right-of-way" while trying to make some kind of analogy to bar bets and real sailors' drinking habits. The only point evident was that Barret himself had been hoisting a few. (Don't get me wrong, that's not a bad thing)Well, it must have been a pretty lame joke, because not one of you saw the humor in the relationship between "right away" and "later on"..... As in the first boat would pass under the bridge right away, the second would go later on. I apologize for trying to bring a little levity to this thread. A thread that seems to be perpetuated by a pissing contest between Col Regs legalese quoting academics and street-wise sailors who think flashing a spotlight in the pilothouse of an oncoming vessel will somehow improve its helmsman's night vision. This thread has become some kind of boating geek chat room. (guess that makes me one too)Apparently, none of you have supplemented your Rules of the Road research by reading the very small publication "Chapman's Nautical Guide to Boating Etiquette". It refers to the "Gracious Gesture" as the greatest courtesy on the water not prescribed by the Rules of the Road. This is where one skipper simply waves to the other and graciously says "After you, Captain"......And there my friends is the answer to the "right away" question. Yes, in areas of strong current, the upbound vessel would give way to the downbound vessel. But, in the event there is no prescribed way to determine which vessel is at a maneuvering disadvantage.... then the more gracious skipper simply waves the other through the gap "right away", and patiently waits for his turn to pass under the bridge "later on".

 

[alan]

barrett, my point is that...

...you will reduce the night vision of anyone hit directly with a spot. To be honest I am not sure of the time/magnitude of light required to totally knock it out but this is dependent on both. I would use a sweep accross a bridge as a last resort. Lighting up the sails several times for a few seconds is usually enough. It does not have to be done with a powerful light. My experience is with relatively small high speed ferries on short runs. They respond by lighting up their spot and momentarily sweeping in front of me. I would use that technique also before the other but agree that it would be more likely to alert an innatentive watch. For sure an innatentive watch will not be much more likely to see your boat with deck lights on. Going back to the fery example and your example of city lights I would submit that the situations are different than that on the high seas. Locally idiots use auto pilots and post no watch at times. Yes lighting them up would be the useful thing here. Again, I would save spotting a bridge when in doubt and only if I felt threatened. alan

 

[RonD]

Interesting Thread

Little did I know how this would develop when I mentioned the "right of way" vs "Stand-on/give way" thing eons ago.My initial post reflected current US Coast Guard policy to discourage the idea of having an absolute "right of way" (even though the term is used in the Inland Rules) and to re-emphasize the need to have a collision avoidance mindset. It is an attitude thing. Good seamanship entails, knowledge, skill, prudence and courtesy.That mindset/attitude extends to operating at night with lights. The numbers, colors, and positions of navigation lights are intended to not only help others see you but to convey to them useful information about your size, purpose and heading in order to allow them to take appropriate actions to avoid collisions. In extremis, a skipper can (and should) take other actions to ensure his/her boat is being seen; a white parachute flare is often cited as one such action, as are deck lights, shining a spotlight on the sails, sounding a horn signal, etc.....Enjoyed Joe's bar-bet question -- it's a good one! My answer would be (1) under Inland rules, the upstream vessel would normally be give-way, but (2) it should be mitigated by reviewing the ability of both vessels to maneuver. If the upstream vessel is an unwieldy tow, while the downsteam vessel is a recreational vessel, prudence and courtesy might be to yield to the tow.--RonD

 

[barrett]

YOU ONE FUNNY MAN, JOE

Very Funny Joe...I never noticed I did that, but then niether did anyone else...I think it has to do with an unstated understanding that most people who post on BB let grammatical,spelling and general useage rules slide for the sake sanity...But I'll pay more attention...maybe not "Right-Away", but "later-On"

 

[barrett]

Well, I just got the call...

And it's back to work...the tropical depression and it's associated patterns and conditions has disipated, and north. The skipper called and we are underway...Delivering a 47' Vagabond to the west coast of the mainland...Thanks for the fun discussion,glad I could add some excitment to the post! see ya "Later-On"...

 

[alan]

Enjoy your trip, fair winds and all that...

...let us know how it was when you hit land, err, um, make land :^) alan

 

[dan]

sorry barrett!

I must apologize to barrett for not makeing myself crytral clear and then getting caught up in the feeding frenzy. On my boat I have: running lights, steaming lights, and an anchor light. If I turn them all on, I in no way violate any of the rules. The only thing that I "give up" IF I'm under sail alone is the privilege of being the STAND ON VESSEL when encountering a motor vessel. Which I always gladly give up to stay as far as possible from the stink pot. I IN NO WAY MEANT TO GO OUT AND HANG EVERY AVAILABLE LIGHT FROM THE RIGGING! BTW, sorry I missed the joke Joe! what'ca drank'n!

 

[alan]

The reason for nav. rules including lights...

...is so that one can predict what another vessel will/can do in the event of a meeting situation and to reduce the likelyhood of a collision. Using all your lights (illegal displays) is not condoned by the rules and strickly prohibited except to say that everything should be done to avoid an imminant collision. That an imminant collision situation exists is a failure in of itself. If you display a steaming light then other vessels will not only expect you to obey those rules, but you will be expected to be able to manuver as such. So if in a given situation you would be required to turn to port you will be expected to do so even if that means sailing dead into the wind. That along with turning lead into gold, perpetual motion and cold fusion remains to be done. alan

 

[joe]

Hey Barrett...

....Have a safe trip, friend... You are way ahead of most of us. We'll leave the light on for ya'.