On my last outing I noticed that my side stays had noticible slack on the lee side while under sail. A posting suggested tightening the forestay as a means to remove the slack. I tightened the forestay turnbuckle some today to try this method. It did appear to tighten the side stays as it should. I am not sure if they are tight enough yet. I did notice though, that if I stand at the mast and look up along it, it seems to bend toward the stern starting at the forestay mount. I checked the backstay to see if that was overly tight and pulling the top of the mast rearward and it seemed ok and not really even very tight. So, do I loosen the forestay again and try to tighten the sidestays individually or is it ok as is? It seems to me that the upper stays and forestay attach at the same height on the mast so that they should present opposing forces and not cause any bend in the mast but that the backstay, attaching much farther up would pull the top of the mast rearward. Is what I have what is considerd to be rake? I always thought that rake meant that the whole mast leans back slightly but is straight along its length. Any thoughts? By the way, I installed a tiller tamer today to help with the single-handed sailing. If anyone can post a couple of photos of how they ran there lines aft I would appreciate it. I am trying to decide how I would like to run mine. I am thinking about cheek blocks on either side of the mast just above the step to bring the halyards back on an angle to some type of cleat at the rear of the coach roof. I'm thinking it might be better organized and out of the way of the poptop if I brought them out 90 degrees from the mast to a turning block and then aft to the cleat but I'm not sure if the extra turns would add to the effort when hoisting sail. I do know that I don't want to drill any more holes than necessary. Thanks. -John
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Loos gauge
The simple answer to standing rigging tension is to set it with a loos gauage and forget it. There are, however, times when you want more tension, and times when a slack rig is faster. I think that the sidestays and forestay should be set up without any influence from the backstay, take it off for now. Having your rig set up as it is now (with the backstay pulling the top of the mast aft above the hounds) will flatten your mainsail, used to reduce heeling in higher winds. It will reduce the ability to make drive in light winds. As far as rake goes, I have yet to see a good way to set rake. I have recut my standing rigging to have 6 inches aft rake as measured against the deck. I used a level to make the deck flat, and then suspended a plumb bob on the main halyard, subtracted for gooseneck offset, and set the rake, but what does this have to do with the way the mast sits on the boat in the water?
The simple answer to standing rigging tension is to set it with a loos gauage and forget it. There are, however, times when you want more tension, and times when a slack rig is faster. I think that the sidestays and forestay should be set up without any influence from the backstay, take it off for now. Having your rig set up as it is now (with the backstay pulling the top of the mast aft above the hounds) will flatten your mainsail, used to reduce heeling in higher winds. It will reduce the ability to make drive in light winds. As far as rake goes, I have yet to see a good way to set rake. I have recut my standing rigging to have 6 inches aft rake as measured against the deck. I used a level to make the deck flat, and then suspended a plumb bob on the main halyard, subtracted for gooseneck offset, and set the rake, but what does this have to do with the way the mast sits on the boat in the water?
Understanding the fractional rig
This is a subject that took on a "life of it's own" on another forum. The most important thing that came out of it was a link to a Sail article on tuning the fractional rig: http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/projects/rig/rig.htm This article helps you understand the force arrangements and how they differ from a masthead rig. Required reading - a fractional rig has significant differences. In terms of Teliki, I spent a fair bit of time adjusting and comparing to other rigs. On well performing rigs, the leeward uppers had slightly noticeable slack in 15kt winds and 20 degrees heel. Lowers were only slightly tighter. The backstay has little tension at rest and the mast is straight with an 8 inch rake (to a bubble levelled deck. On a fractional rig, backstay tension has a drastic effect in depowering the main as bend increases - so you definitely want a straight mast for lighter conditions. Chris
This is a subject that took on a "life of it's own" on another forum. The most important thing that came out of it was a link to a Sail article on tuning the fractional rig: http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/projects/rig/rig.htm This article helps you understand the force arrangements and how they differ from a masthead rig. Required reading - a fractional rig has significant differences. In terms of Teliki, I spent a fair bit of time adjusting and comparing to other rigs. On well performing rigs, the leeward uppers had slightly noticeable slack in 15kt winds and 20 degrees heel. Lowers were only slightly tighter. The backstay has little tension at rest and the mast is straight with an 8 inch rake (to a bubble levelled deck. On a fractional rig, backstay tension has a drastic effect in depowering the main as bend increases - so you definitely want a straight mast for lighter conditions. Chris
One Thing More
This fractional rig does not need the backstay to stand up on its own. During a good portion of the points of sail, the backstay does nothing at all. Unless you are able to adjust the backstay, you might think about getting rid of it. Since you probably allow your mainsail to lie against the shrouds DDW. the backstay ain't doing much there, either. That is why I advocate tuning the standing rigging without the backstay attached. It becomes much simpler. It also starts to bring the forestay length and rake mystery into focus: The adjustment of rake is pretty much overwith when the forestay length is swaged. If your mast is prebent by lying across the boat during trailering, that is a really damaged mast.
This fractional rig does not need the backstay to stand up on its own. During a good portion of the points of sail, the backstay does nothing at all. Unless you are able to adjust the backstay, you might think about getting rid of it. Since you probably allow your mainsail to lie against the shrouds DDW. the backstay ain't doing much there, either. That is why I advocate tuning the standing rigging without the backstay attached. It becomes much simpler. It also starts to bring the forestay length and rake mystery into focus: The adjustment of rake is pretty much overwith when the forestay length is swaged. If your mast is prebent by lying across the boat during trailering, that is a really damaged mast.
Rig tuning
Excellant article Chris. Oh lets stop calling the shrouds side stays. It will confuse some-one. The only thing I'd like to add is do keep the back stay. It does help support the mast on a run, and could make a difference on a botched jibe. I have made mine into an adjustable back stay so that I can add tension when I want to depower the main. But you are right in saying just take it off while adjusting the rig. I know everyone that has a loos gauge loves them, but they are not nessasary to tune these rigs. Note that on most Macs the lower shrouds are used to prevent a forward bow in the mast as you tighten the upper shrouds/forestay. These masts are a little wimpy, but that helps spill wind from the main in a gust. If you look close in a micro burst you can see the top of the mast bending lee ward.
Excellant article Chris. Oh lets stop calling the shrouds side stays. It will confuse some-one. The only thing I'd like to add is do keep the back stay. It does help support the mast on a run, and could make a difference on a botched jibe. I have made mine into an adjustable back stay so that I can add tension when I want to depower the main. But you are right in saying just take it off while adjusting the rig. I know everyone that has a loos gauge loves them, but they are not nessasary to tune these rigs. Note that on most Macs the lower shrouds are used to prevent a forward bow in the mast as you tighten the upper shrouds/forestay. These masts are a little wimpy, but that helps spill wind from the main in a gust. If you look close in a micro burst you can see the top of the mast bending lee ward.
Mast Rake
Oh I forgot. The ideal mast rake will be different on each boat. This is because we all load our boats differently. Start with 6-8" of rake and go sailing. If you have any lee helm, add rake. If you have too much weather helm reduce the rake. When you get the boat balanced, note where the forestay turn buckle is, as this is where you will want to set it from then on. Go ahead and measure your rake now that the boat is sailing well balanced, this will be the rake for your boat. Too many times I see people complaining about Mac's having too much weather helm, but that they have their mast raked back 12-18", No wonder they have weather helm. They run out and buy a new rudder so they don't feel the weather helm and think they have fixed the problem. The boat will sail faster and better if it is balanced. They could have saved some money and have gotten better performance by just tuning the rig right. PS remember to tune the shrouds when you change your fore stay length, make sure the mast is straight and the shrouds don't wave in the wind on the lee side. You need a tight fore stay to point well.
Oh I forgot. The ideal mast rake will be different on each boat. This is because we all load our boats differently. Start with 6-8" of rake and go sailing. If you have any lee helm, add rake. If you have too much weather helm reduce the rake. When you get the boat balanced, note where the forestay turn buckle is, as this is where you will want to set it from then on. Go ahead and measure your rake now that the boat is sailing well balanced, this will be the rake for your boat. Too many times I see people complaining about Mac's having too much weather helm, but that they have their mast raked back 12-18", No wonder they have weather helm. They run out and buy a new rudder so they don't feel the weather helm and think they have fixed the problem. The boat will sail faster and better if it is balanced. They could have saved some money and have gotten better performance by just tuning the rig right. PS remember to tune the shrouds when you change your fore stay length, make sure the mast is straight and the shrouds don't wave in the wind on the lee side. You need a tight fore stay to point well.
Sometimes it's the simplest things...
After giving it some thought I ventured back down to my boat yesterday and released the mainsheet. Mast is now straight, shrouds seem fairly taught and backstay is there with no real tension (in case of a nasty gybe). I hadn't thought to release the mainsheet and had only untied the boom from the backstay when trying to adjust things. The topping lift was pulling the mast back because of the tension on the mainsheet. Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees. -John
After giving it some thought I ventured back down to my boat yesterday and released the mainsheet. Mast is now straight, shrouds seem fairly taught and backstay is there with no real tension (in case of a nasty gybe). I hadn't thought to release the mainsheet and had only untied the boom from the backstay when trying to adjust things. The topping lift was pulling the mast back because of the tension on the mainsheet. Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees. -John
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