Alright, I took everyones advice, and purchase a loos gauge. Now hunter recomends 20% on all stays, that is 560 lbs on each. I checked the archives and there seems to be a lot of debate on tension. Uppers, lowers, fore, and back stay? Thanks Dave
Stay tension
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The simple truth about rig tuning
There is no single "right" shroud tension setting for the H23. Even on the same boat, the "right" tension can change from day to day, depending on wind speed, number of crew, how hard the boat is being sailed and how fanatical the skipper might be. That being said, there is only ONE sure way to tell if the rig is properly tuned, It's so simple you don't need the gauge. Just sail close-hauled with full main and headsail in 12 to 15 kt of wind and watch the leeward shrouds. If they go slack, add shroud tension on both sides. Sail some more and check the shrouds again. Repeat until the lee shrouds stay taut. It's that simple. That doesn't mean the Loos gauge isn't useful. You need it to set the 20% of wire breaking strength you noted, which is about halfway through the rig tning process. Check your shroud diameter too, The 1x19 wire shrouds on the H23 have a breaking strength of 3300 lb, 20% of which would be about 650 lb. To set the rig properly, you should know what each piece of standing rigging does. The forestay is obvious. The shrouds support the mast laterally, but because of the swept-back spreaders and the shroud chainplates mounted aft of the mast base, they do a bit more on the H23 than on a "regular" boat. The uppers, in conjunction with the forestay, support the mast like the guy wires on a radio tower. They also bend the mast like a bow (known as "prebend"). Mast prebend flattens the middle of the sail and opens the leech. These are very effective ways to depower the sail in higher winds. The lowers help support the mast too, but they also stiffen the middle of the mast and reduce its tendency to bow forward, In that sense, the uppers and lowers work against each other, but that's a good thing. The backstay bends the mast like the uppers do, only more effectively. One more thing. The lowers won't be loaded as much as the uppers (about 500 lb usually) and the forestay will be substantially higher (about 900 lb but only until you raise the headsail, at which point the jib halyard and luff wire will take some of the load off the forestay. Start by slackening all the shrouds and the backstay. Tighten the forestay until you have the amount of rake you need (most people seem to think 6" to a foot is about right. Check by hanging a weight just off the deck using the main halyard and measuring from the halyard to the back of the mast near the base. Tighten the uppers until the mast has about an inch or so of prebend (eyeball up the mast track). All H23 masts will bend , but the bendy Z-Spar mast (tapered at the top) is the easiest. Make sure the mast stays vertical side to side. Now tighten each lower to about 500 lb. This prevents further prebend. Now tighten the uppers until the leewards stay tight when sailing (increase in half-turn increments of the turnbuckle as needed until you're done. That's the basic setup. On windier days you may need more upper shroud tension and more backstay tension...or you can reef earlier. Hadsail size (say 110 vs. 150) and jib halyard tension make a difference as does your personal sailing style (racing with crew? racing singlehanded? cruising leisurely with female crew that doesn't like to heel? daysailing?) That's why I said that there's no single "right" rig tension. Sorry this got so long, but I think you'll find it helpful. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
There is no single "right" shroud tension setting for the H23. Even on the same boat, the "right" tension can change from day to day, depending on wind speed, number of crew, how hard the boat is being sailed and how fanatical the skipper might be. That being said, there is only ONE sure way to tell if the rig is properly tuned, It's so simple you don't need the gauge. Just sail close-hauled with full main and headsail in 12 to 15 kt of wind and watch the leeward shrouds. If they go slack, add shroud tension on both sides. Sail some more and check the shrouds again. Repeat until the lee shrouds stay taut. It's that simple. That doesn't mean the Loos gauge isn't useful. You need it to set the 20% of wire breaking strength you noted, which is about halfway through the rig tning process. Check your shroud diameter too, The 1x19 wire shrouds on the H23 have a breaking strength of 3300 lb, 20% of which would be about 650 lb. To set the rig properly, you should know what each piece of standing rigging does. The forestay is obvious. The shrouds support the mast laterally, but because of the swept-back spreaders and the shroud chainplates mounted aft of the mast base, they do a bit more on the H23 than on a "regular" boat. The uppers, in conjunction with the forestay, support the mast like the guy wires on a radio tower. They also bend the mast like a bow (known as "prebend"). Mast prebend flattens the middle of the sail and opens the leech. These are very effective ways to depower the sail in higher winds. The lowers help support the mast too, but they also stiffen the middle of the mast and reduce its tendency to bow forward, In that sense, the uppers and lowers work against each other, but that's a good thing. The backstay bends the mast like the uppers do, only more effectively. One more thing. The lowers won't be loaded as much as the uppers (about 500 lb usually) and the forestay will be substantially higher (about 900 lb but only until you raise the headsail, at which point the jib halyard and luff wire will take some of the load off the forestay. Start by slackening all the shrouds and the backstay. Tighten the forestay until you have the amount of rake you need (most people seem to think 6" to a foot is about right. Check by hanging a weight just off the deck using the main halyard and measuring from the halyard to the back of the mast near the base. Tighten the uppers until the mast has about an inch or so of prebend (eyeball up the mast track). All H23 masts will bend , but the bendy Z-Spar mast (tapered at the top) is the easiest. Make sure the mast stays vertical side to side. Now tighten each lower to about 500 lb. This prevents further prebend. Now tighten the uppers until the leewards stay tight when sailing (increase in half-turn increments of the turnbuckle as needed until you're done. That's the basic setup. On windier days you may need more upper shroud tension and more backstay tension...or you can reef earlier. Hadsail size (say 110 vs. 150) and jib halyard tension make a difference as does your personal sailing style (racing with crew? racing singlehanded? cruising leisurely with female crew that doesn't like to heel? daysailing?) That's why I said that there's no single "right" rig tension. Sorry this got so long, but I think you'll find it helpful. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
back stay tension
I went out yesterday and tuned the rig. 600 lb on uppers, 500 on lowers, I tightened the back stay all the way. It definitely needs a back stay adjuster. But I was able to point much higher, and it sailed with a lot less helm. Thanks Peter again.
I went out yesterday and tuned the rig. 600 lb on uppers, 500 on lowers, I tightened the back stay all the way. It definitely needs a back stay adjuster. But I was able to point much higher, and it sailed with a lot less helm. Thanks Peter again.
Backstay adjuster - for Dave
Dave: Glad to hear things are working for you. A backstay adjuster will make things even better because it allows you to adjust mast bend (and mainsail power) easily under way. There are several ways to build an adjuster. None of them require you to remove any of the backstay wires. The simplest is a single sheave shacked under the point where the split backstays join. A second sheave with a cam cleat cleated near the lower end of the starboard split and 20 feet of 3/8" double-braid line will complete the setup for about $40. Tie the line near the base of the port split, run it up and over the sheave at the top, down to the second one and through the cleat and you're done. A bit more complicated is the triangle plate with four sheaves (about $30 in WM or BoatUS catalog) that rides on the split backstays. You'll still need the upper block and 3/8 line, plus two small dual or triple blocks, one with a cam cleat and about 40 ft of 1/4" double-braid. For a cost of about $60 you have a 3;1 advantage and easier adjustment. The plate comes apart for placement over the backstays. Use the backstay turnbuckles to set the amount of prebend you want for the prevailing wind conditions. Where you have it right now is probably good. If weather helm and heel start to build as you head upwind, pull the adjuster line and bend the mast to keep the boat on its feet. The tiller will give you feedback; as you bend the mast, the tiller should get lighter. You can fine-tune the mast bend as you go, easing and tightening the adjuster until you get a good balance of comfort and speed. When sailing downwind, ease the backstay so the mast can straighten. This deepens the sail so it can cup more air for more power. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
Dave: Glad to hear things are working for you. A backstay adjuster will make things even better because it allows you to adjust mast bend (and mainsail power) easily under way. There are several ways to build an adjuster. None of them require you to remove any of the backstay wires. The simplest is a single sheave shacked under the point where the split backstays join. A second sheave with a cam cleat cleated near the lower end of the starboard split and 20 feet of 3/8" double-braid line will complete the setup for about $40. Tie the line near the base of the port split, run it up and over the sheave at the top, down to the second one and through the cleat and you're done. A bit more complicated is the triangle plate with four sheaves (about $30 in WM or BoatUS catalog) that rides on the split backstays. You'll still need the upper block and 3/8 line, plus two small dual or triple blocks, one with a cam cleat and about 40 ft of 1/4" double-braid. For a cost of about $60 you have a 3;1 advantage and easier adjustment. The plate comes apart for placement over the backstays. Use the backstay turnbuckles to set the amount of prebend you want for the prevailing wind conditions. Where you have it right now is probably good. If weather helm and heel start to build as you head upwind, pull the adjuster line and bend the mast to keep the boat on its feet. The tiller will give you feedback; as you bend the mast, the tiller should get lighter. You can fine-tune the mast bend as you go, easing and tightening the adjuster until you get a good balance of comfort and speed. When sailing downwind, ease the backstay so the mast can straighten. This deepens the sail so it can cup more air for more power. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
tension
Peter , great posts on setting up mast tension , to keep my wife happy I stay out of her nail polish, I do however use rigging tape to mark my turnbuckels, gets me real close to where I need to be in the spring without a lot of effort, Mike
Peter , great posts on setting up mast tension , to keep my wife happy I stay out of her nail polish, I do however use rigging tape to mark my turnbuckels, gets me real close to where I need to be in the spring without a lot of effort, Mike
Good point Dave
Tightening the forestay turnbuckle is a pain because the chainplate is down in the anchor locker. I'm trying to develop some kind of tool that will make it easier. In the interim, here's the procedure I use. When unstepping the mast, I first take seven full turns out of both upper shrouds. This takes a lot of load off the forestay, which resists the backward pull from ALL FOUR shrouds. Then I tension the mast raising rig to pull the mast forward and take even more load off the forestay. After that, a couple of turns of the forestay turnbuckle and it becomes loose enough to unscrew the rest of the way by hand. When stepping the mast, I tension the mast raising rig even more after the mast is up so that the forestay turnbuckle can be tightened most of the way by hand. A couple more turns and i'm at the mark on the turnbuckle screw indicating the correct length/mast rake. Then I detension the mast raising rig, tighten the upper shroud turnbuckles (seven turns) and it's done. I will admit that I find it a bit harder to do than it sounds (probably because I can't get my big feet and both hands into the anchor locker all at the same time). Peter H23 "Raven"
Tightening the forestay turnbuckle is a pain because the chainplate is down in the anchor locker. I'm trying to develop some kind of tool that will make it easier. In the interim, here's the procedure I use. When unstepping the mast, I first take seven full turns out of both upper shrouds. This takes a lot of load off the forestay, which resists the backward pull from ALL FOUR shrouds. Then I tension the mast raising rig to pull the mast forward and take even more load off the forestay. After that, a couple of turns of the forestay turnbuckle and it becomes loose enough to unscrew the rest of the way by hand. When stepping the mast, I tension the mast raising rig even more after the mast is up so that the forestay turnbuckle can be tightened most of the way by hand. A couple more turns and i'm at the mark on the turnbuckle screw indicating the correct length/mast rake. Then I detension the mast raising rig, tighten the upper shroud turnbuckles (seven turns) and it's done. I will admit that I find it a bit harder to do than it sounds (probably because I can't get my big feet and both hands into the anchor locker all at the same time). Peter H23 "Raven"
K
Kevin Keen
I use a Loos tension gauge
I use a Loos tension gauge (the cheap one) and set shroud tension to the values recommend by Hunter Marine as soon as the boat is in the water. I then check periodically throughout the sailing season and re-tension as needed. Higher summer temperatures result in some heat stretch in the standing rigging and cooler fall temperatures result in contraction so checking with a gauge is worthwhile. Cheers! Kevin.
I use a Loos tension gauge (the cheap one) and set shroud tension to the values recommend by Hunter Marine as soon as the boat is in the water. I then check periodically throughout the sailing season and re-tension as needed. Higher summer temperatures result in some heat stretch in the standing rigging and cooler fall temperatures result in contraction so checking with a gauge is worthwhile. Cheers! Kevin.
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