Stay Tension 1/8" stays

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RECESS

RECESS

.
Dec 20, 2003
1,509
Catalina 27 . St. Mary's Georgia
I have looked at the running rigging chart. Looked at previous posts. But I was still wondering what other people tension their 25 O'Days to on a Loos gauge? I tension mine to 20 all around which still leaves some room for them to move. I have read the original O'Day owners manual about hand tight and one more turn, but my rigging is not new but in good shape. I would rather have a way to know that all stays are the same.

What do you do with yours?
 
Joe11688

Joe11688

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Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
I'm using number 15 for my upper stays, and a little less for my lowers, maybe 10 or 12 I'm not sure. My lowers and fore stay are 5/32" and my uppers are 1/8". I have the same chainplates for my side stays as your 25 on my O'Day 222.
 
Shoaldrafter

Shoaldrafter

.
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Stay tension

RECESS said:
I have looked at the running rigging chart. Looked at previous posts. But I was still wondering what other people tension their 25 O'Days to on a Loos gauge? I tension mine to 20 all around which still leaves some room for them to move. I have read the original O'Day owners manual about hand tight and one more turn, but my rigging is not new but in good shape. I would rather have a way to know that all stays are the same.

What do you do with yours?
Click to expand
Dave,

We have gone thru discussion of Loos numbers on stays several times.

Many years ago, I was taught that the way to set stay tension on smaller boats, and ours fall into that catagory. The method I was taught was hand tight plus on full turn.

Somewhere in an article in the last year I saw that method in writing and posted it the last time we had this discussion.

When I set up my O 26 the first time, I had a friend who has a Loos guage and knows how to use it help me set up the rigging. The set up according to the Loos guage was too tight. So I back off and set the tension according to my previous method.

If you go by the numbers there is potential of too much pressure from Mast on cabin top resulting in depression and gel coat cracks. I have assumed that Loos tensions are for (1) racers and (2) big boats like Maine Sails' 37.

Search the archives for that reference I used last time.

Ed K
26.
 

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RECESS

RECESS

.
Dec 20, 2003
1,509
Catalina 27 . St. Mary's Georgia
Shoaldrafter said:
Dave,

We have gone thru discussion of Loos numbers on stays several times.

Many years ago, I was taught that the way to set stay tension on smaller boats, and ours fall into that catagory. The method I was taught was hand tight plus on full turn.

Somewhere in an article in the last year I saw that method in writing and posted it the last time we had this discussion.

When I set up my O 26 the first time, I had a friend who has a Loos guage and knows how to use it help me set up the rigging. The set up according to the Loos guage was too tight. So I back off and set the tension according to my previous method.

If you go by the numbers there is potential of too much pressure from Mast on cabin top resulting in depression and gel coat cracks. I have assumed that Loos tensions are for (1) racers and (2) big boats like Maine Sails' 37.

Search the archives for that reference I used last time.

Ed K
26.
Click to expand
Thanks Ed,

I have read the archives but there is something that bothers me with the O'Day method. It is based on brand new turnbuckles. If you have one turnbuckle that is the least bit corroded or a thread is a bit pulled, the turnbuckle will feel hand tight but could be very different from one on the other side. The result is the stays are very different and the mast could be in danger of different tensions from one side to the other. I have seen people tension them as high as 30. That seemed very tight and running the risk of pulling the hardware through the deck. Loos gauges may be used by racers, but by using the low setting on the gauge it can make sure the rigging has the same tension all the way around. With mine set at 20, I can move the rigging back and forth easily without it binding. I also trailer my boat with the mast down and set it up several times. The Loos gauge helps me to find a consistant tension on the deck hardware.

I think one of the great things about a resource like this is to find ways of maintaining a boat that is 30 or 40 years old. That maintenance is going to be very different than a brand new boat.
 
Joe11688

Joe11688

.
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Ed,
I think that Dave has a point about the turnbuckles. You really don't have to go by the numbers that correspond to the thickness of the stays. You can pick a number which in your opinion is a happy medium for your stay tension and stick with that number. In other words, go with the rule of thumb and then check your stay tension and come up with an average number that you can use for all of them. This is what I would do. I know I've mentioned this before, but when I raise my mast I've never had to tension any of my stays except my back stay, where I only have four side stays and they never bind before the mast reaches it's standing position. I don't think that the 25 or the 26 can do that, where they have six side stays, right? At least from what I've seen, one of our members says that he has to release or slack off two of his stays before he raises his mast. I think that if you do any trailer sailing with these boats, it would behoove you to keep the mast tuning as fast and as simple as possible. Any good stay tension gauge can suffice for this task.
I tried out my new mast rope anchor technique this spring for attaching my baby stays to the mast when I'm raising/lowering my mast, and it worked OK but I don't like it. So I built a wood mast yoke out of maple that clamps on to my mast. It has a stainless steel hinge, a swing out adjuster bolt at the opening with a large wing nut, and a stainless steel eye bolt on each bottom side of the yoke for the baby stay connections from the pivot bridles. This is very similar to what Wayne has been using on his Seaward 22 for years and I know I'm going to like it. In fact, I finished it off with spar varnish and put it in a denim case that I sewed up and stuck it on the boat with my other mast raising gear. I'll post a picture of it when I get a chance.
Joe
 
Shoaldrafter

Shoaldrafter

.
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Threads on turnbuckles and fittings

RECESS said:
Thanks Ed,

I have read the archives but there is something that bothers me with the O'Day method. It is based on brand new turnbuckles. If you have one turnbuckle that is the least bit corroded or a thread is a bit pulled, the turnbuckle will feel hand tight but could be very different from one on the other side. The result is the stays are very different and the mast could be in danger of different tensions from one side to the other. I have seen people tension them as high as 30. That seemed very tight and running the risk of pulling the hardware through the deck. Loos gauges may be used by racers, but by using the low setting on the gauge it can make sure the rigging has the same tension all the way around. With mine set at 20, I can move the rigging back and forth easily without it binding. I also trailer my boat with the mast down and set it up several times. The Loos gauge helps me to find a consistant tension on the deck hardware.

I think one of the great things about a resource like this is to find ways of maintaining a boat that is 30 or 40 years old. That maintenance is going to be very different than a brand new boat.
Click to expand
--------- // ---------
Dave,

As to old turnbuckes and fitting threads, that what tap and dies are for. You would be surprised how much better they work and reworking threads. Take out the problems you speak of.

You can get a cheap set at Harbor Freight or just get the two pieces you need for your stays at specialty tool shop.

Unfortunately then you will find yourself reworking all the bolts, nuts, stay fittings, but then they all have nicks and bends that they should not.

The left hand turns are special, but can be had a specialty tool store.

Also, I keep finding old #12 nut size stuff and these are not to be had, especially in ss. But specialty tool stores still have #12 tap and dies and you can fix the ancient #12 stuff. But I am still waiting to learn how to fix wooden blocks.

Cleaning up your threads will solve your issue until they need to be fixed again which will happen. Any boat without a ding and dent is not being used.

Ed K
Addendum: "Perhaps the most valuable result of all education is the ability to make yourself do the thing you have to do, when it ought to be done, whether you like it or not; it is the first lesson that ought to be learned; and however early a man's training begins, it is probably the last lesson that he learns thoroughly."
Thomas H. Huxley (1825 - 1895)
 
Joe11688

Joe11688

.
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
RBone said:
My rigging is 5/32"

Joe, my 25 has single lower shrouds.

Rich
Click to expand
Rich,
I went down to the club today and pulled my boat up to an empty side dock for the day so I could just hang out, eat, and nap. I decided to check my stays. My upper stays are set at 10. My lowers which are 5/32" are a little more slack than the uppers, but they were reading 15. I think it's because of the difference of the stay thickness. If my lowers were 1/8", which is what they were supposed to be, they would probably be reading lower than 10. I also broke out my new mast yoke and mounted it on the mast to get a picture of it. I didn't attach any temporary stays (Baby stays) to it, but that's what this gadget is going to be used for. The main purpose of this yoke is to provide an anchor point on the mast for the baby stays to hold the mast from going over sideways in the mast raising/lowering process using the Gin Pole. This yoke can be used on the O'Day 25s and 26s along with the boom as a Gin Pole. It doesn't need to be as fancy as this one. It could be made to fit snug, and a bolt with a wing nut could be used to tighten it to the mast. All you would need is two extra ropes with snaps on the ends to connect from the pivot bridle rings, to the eye bolts on this gizmo.
Joe
 

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Shoaldrafter

Shoaldrafter

.
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Trinkka said:
Rich,
I went down to the club today and pulled my boat up to an empty side dock for the day so I could just hang out, eat, and nap. I decided to check my stays. My upper stays are set at 10. My lowers which are 5/32" are a little more slack than the uppers, but they were reading 15. I think it's because of the difference of the stay thickness. If my lowers were 1/8", which is what they were supposed to be, they would probably be reading lower than 10. I also broke out my new mast yoke and mounted it on the mast to get a picture of it. I didn't attach any temporary stays (Baby stays) to it, but that's what this gadget is going to be used for. The main purpose of this yoke is to provide an anchor point on the mast for the baby stays to hold the mast from going over sideways in the mast raising/lowering process using the Gin Pole. This yoke can be used on the O'Day 25s and 26s along with the boom as a Gin Pole. It doesn't need to be as fancy as this one. It could be made to fit snug, and a bolt with a wing nut could be used to tighten it to the mast. All you would need is two extra ropes with snaps on the ends to connect from the pivot bridle rings, to the eye bolts on this gizmo.
Joe
Click to expand

Joe,

Rich said, "That's a snazzy piece of hardware you got there."

A great set of pictures of the hardware but where are the pictures of it in use illustrating the connections, lines, etc.

You know having it all hooked up then mast about halfway up. You know, the important details.

Your instructions are as lucid as "The expression prier (alt. priar) is in use still in NW Norway on simple square riggs and aboard Danish replica Viking ships – it is a line which runs from the middle of the sail body to the mast (and again to the sail and back, using a block system) and thence to the deck from where it is serviced. Its use seems to be to haul the sail body close to the mast for efficiency when sailing close to the wind, and also to spill the wind from the sail when sailing afore the wind."

Ed K
26
 

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Joe11688

Joe11688

.
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Shoaldrafter said:
Joe,

Rich said, "That's a snazzy piece of hardware you got there."

A great set of pictures of the hardware but where are the pictures of it in use illustrating the connections, lines, etc.

You know having it all hooked up then mast about halfway up. You know, the important details.

Your instructions are as lucid as "The expression prier (alt. priar) is in use still in NW Norway on simple square riggs and aboard Danish replica Viking ships – it is a line which runs from the middle of the sail body to the mast (and again to the sail and back, using a block system) and thence to the deck from where it is serviced. Its use seems to be to haul the sail body close to the mast for efficiency when sailing close to the wind, and also to spill the wind from the sail when sailing afore the wind."

Ed K
26
Click to expand
Hi Ed!
I'm afraid that we will have to wait until the fall, when I get ready to take the mast down and bring her home for the season. I'll take some pics then and post them. I can only tell you that a similar gadget that Wayne made up for his Seaward 22 has worked for him for many years. Then on the other hand,--four thumbs and a finger. We have an old drawbridge near Battleship Cove Fall River Ma., that breaks down occasionally and I may need to take my mast down to get under it,---again! :cussing:
 
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