I have a 376 with a Yanmar starter panel which incorporates the keyswitch and charging and ign. lights. On a trip we have just completed I tried to start the engine and absolutely nothing happened when I turned the key. Anyone had a simelar problem ? Oh it did start after a few minutes and repeated turning of the key. The boat is a 1997, is it possible the keyswitch needs replacing, or does anyone know if this switch is user serviceable ? Tony Wilcox
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Check starter motor solenoid
Have you checked the wire to the starter motor solenoid? It may have virbrated loose. Good luck!
Have you checked the wire to the starter motor solenoid? It may have virbrated loose. Good luck!
Same Problem
Tony, I have had the same problem with my 1997 376. Here's what I have tried. 1) Replaced solonoid and had the starter rebuilt. 2) Installed a new starter battery. 3) Had a relay installed to jump the starter circuit with the house bank. 4) Cleaned and/or replaced every electrical connector in the starting circuit. 5) Removed, tested, cleaned and replaced the key switch. None of these have solved the problem and I have given up. I'm told the cable that runs from the battery is maybe too small but it's a major hassle and expense to replace it and I'm not up for any more "potential" fixes. After 3 years it's become apparent to me that if you just keep turning the key switch the engine will eventually crank so I just live with it. If anyone has any other solutions or if you manage to solve the problem some other way I'd love to know. I've had three mechanics an electrician and Hunter review the problem. None of them have solved it. You will find a lot about this problem written in the archives.
Tony, I have had the same problem with my 1997 376. Here's what I have tried. 1) Replaced solonoid and had the starter rebuilt. 2) Installed a new starter battery. 3) Had a relay installed to jump the starter circuit with the house bank. 4) Cleaned and/or replaced every electrical connector in the starting circuit. 5) Removed, tested, cleaned and replaced the key switch. None of these have solved the problem and I have given up. I'm told the cable that runs from the battery is maybe too small but it's a major hassle and expense to replace it and I'm not up for any more "potential" fixes. After 3 years it's become apparent to me that if you just keep turning the key switch the engine will eventually crank so I just live with it. If anyone has any other solutions or if you manage to solve the problem some other way I'd love to know. I've had three mechanics an electrician and Hunter review the problem. None of them have solved it. You will find a lot about this problem written in the archives.
Mine just started doing this....
Tony and all: I have experienced this for the first time this season. I thought I was pretty cool when i found that the fuse behind the key panel was working intermitently, believe it or not. ( it was corroded, and the "ends" could be turned while still, sometimes, making contact with the, still intact, wire inside the fuse). Testing indicated I had solved the problem.... until it did it again 1 week later. So, no solution other than to check an intermitent working fuse. I know our boats are probably out of warranty, but maybe we can gang up on Hunter on this one. I definitly do not want to need the engine and have to futz around trying to get it started. Jeff
Tony and all: I have experienced this for the first time this season. I thought I was pretty cool when i found that the fuse behind the key panel was working intermitently, believe it or not. ( it was corroded, and the "ends" could be turned while still, sometimes, making contact with the, still intact, wire inside the fuse). Testing indicated I had solved the problem.... until it did it again 1 week later. So, no solution other than to check an intermitent working fuse. I know our boats are probably out of warranty, but maybe we can gang up on Hunter on this one. I definitly do not want to need the engine and have to futz around trying to get it started. Jeff
Welcome to the club.
For those of us with really old boats it is good to have company. My '79 H37C has done this since I bought her in 1998. Everything has been replaced except the starter. All connections have been cleaned and tightened. I think the basic problem is that it takes so much current to kick the solenoid and there is too much resistance in that path. In my wiring there are at least eight connections between the battery and the solenoid. My ignition key and starter pushbutton are separate. The starter sucks so much current that it usually turns off my VHF and I have to go and reset it. I proved this once by taking a screwdriver and jumping the starter. The #4 cable at the starter has plenty of juice and it will start every time that way. It's my backup. I always make sure she is running before I even think about furling a sail when close to a lee shore. But through the years of discussion about this topic someone installed a special relay that, they claim, fixed this problem. It would be deep in the archives maybe.
For those of us with really old boats it is good to have company. My '79 H37C has done this since I bought her in 1998. Everything has been replaced except the starter. All connections have been cleaned and tightened. I think the basic problem is that it takes so much current to kick the solenoid and there is too much resistance in that path. In my wiring there are at least eight connections between the battery and the solenoid. My ignition key and starter pushbutton are separate. The starter sucks so much current that it usually turns off my VHF and I have to go and reset it. I proved this once by taking a screwdriver and jumping the starter. The #4 cable at the starter has plenty of juice and it will start every time that way. It's my backup. I always make sure she is running before I even think about furling a sail when close to a lee shore. But through the years of discussion about this topic someone installed a special relay that, they claim, fixed this problem. It would be deep in the archives maybe.
Test Lights
I was thinking if you really want to diagnose the problem, install tests lights in the same order that you would test the circuit. 12 volt neon would seem to be good and cheap. Install 1 on the key switch, 1 on the solenoid pilot circuit, 1 on the solenoid 12 volt supply and 1 on the starter power supply. It should take maybe an hour if you rig alligator clips for the connections. Use telephone type wire into the starboard aft lazarette. An easy shot from the steering pod and the engine compartment. Label the lights for the final mystery to unfold. It willnever fail again after you do this. Remember, you need just the (+) side of everything, i wire for each test point. Pick up a ground at one location only to light the test lights. yeah right, I would do that. Maybe I would, just to say I did! But it could easily be a different problem in each case. dreaming on, Mike D
I was thinking if you really want to diagnose the problem, install tests lights in the same order that you would test the circuit. 12 volt neon would seem to be good and cheap. Install 1 on the key switch, 1 on the solenoid pilot circuit, 1 on the solenoid 12 volt supply and 1 on the starter power supply. It should take maybe an hour if you rig alligator clips for the connections. Use telephone type wire into the starboard aft lazarette. An easy shot from the steering pod and the engine compartment. Label the lights for the final mystery to unfold. It willnever fail again after you do this. Remember, you need just the (+) side of everything, i wire for each test point. Pick up a ground at one location only to light the test lights. yeah right, I would do that. Maybe I would, just to say I did! But it could easily be a different problem in each case. dreaming on, Mike D
Starter woes
Tony, it seems as though most mechanics these days - either land or marine - have become "parts changers". And if they should end up replacing ALL of the parts and it STILL doesn't work, then, "well... you'd just better get a new boat, 'cuz that one is...". Anyway, look at it this way, there's no magic here... it HAS to be something! Check the following: 1) Does the solenoid 'click' when you turn the key? 2) Is there a neutral saftey switch in the line that prevents the engine from cranking in gear? 3) If the solenoid clicks, then (assuming the battery is OK!)... 3a)your problem is somewhere in the heavy wire leading from battery to starter or the solenoid relay itself, or... 3b)You could have a poor negative (ground) connection to the engine block, or... 3c)the starter could have a bad winding or loose brushes (even if it WAS rebuilt!). You can sometimes find this by whacking the side of the starter motor while someone else has the starter switch engaged (BE CAREFUL- WATCH YOUR HANDS/CLOTHES/FEET, etc.!!!!!) 4)If the solenoid does not 'click', then try hooking a jumper from the battery + directly to the SMALL terminal on the solonoid. If the relay inside is good, then it has to energize. If it does energize, then all you have to do is trace the wires back from the solonoid to the cockpit starter switch to locate the faulty item. This stuff does take time which is why most mechanics are loath to do it! At 65 bucks per hour, you'd freak if a guy spent 20 hours fixing your starter! Also, beware of the devilish "INTERMITTANT FAULT" (my personal nemisis!). One more thing: don't be surprised if there are more than one problem! Above all, be patient. If you find yourself becoming aggravated, take a break! You'll find it for sure! Hope this helps... Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Tony, it seems as though most mechanics these days - either land or marine - have become "parts changers". And if they should end up replacing ALL of the parts and it STILL doesn't work, then, "well... you'd just better get a new boat, 'cuz that one is...". Anyway, look at it this way, there's no magic here... it HAS to be something! Check the following: 1) Does the solenoid 'click' when you turn the key? 2) Is there a neutral saftey switch in the line that prevents the engine from cranking in gear? 3) If the solenoid clicks, then (assuming the battery is OK!)... 3a)your problem is somewhere in the heavy wire leading from battery to starter or the solenoid relay itself, or... 3b)You could have a poor negative (ground) connection to the engine block, or... 3c)the starter could have a bad winding or loose brushes (even if it WAS rebuilt!). You can sometimes find this by whacking the side of the starter motor while someone else has the starter switch engaged (BE CAREFUL- WATCH YOUR HANDS/CLOTHES/FEET, etc.!!!!!) 4)If the solenoid does not 'click', then try hooking a jumper from the battery + directly to the SMALL terminal on the solonoid. If the relay inside is good, then it has to energize. If it does energize, then all you have to do is trace the wires back from the solonoid to the cockpit starter switch to locate the faulty item. This stuff does take time which is why most mechanics are loath to do it! At 65 bucks per hour, you'd freak if a guy spent 20 hours fixing your starter! Also, beware of the devilish "INTERMITTANT FAULT" (my personal nemisis!). One more thing: don't be surprised if there are more than one problem! Above all, be patient. If you find yourself becoming aggravated, take a break! You'll find it for sure! Hope this helps... Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Me Too Again
Had this problen on my 1996 376 and it kinda diappeared after much fooling around but no idea what caused it or corrected it. Has resurfaced again. I believe in the low voltage theory as the problem seems less intermitant after sailing all day and or starting the engine and not running it long enough to ain back the starting amps. I'm assuming my starting battery is losing voltage some where even though it is only 2 ears old. Problem never occurs once the batteries are charged up. I'm tninking of trying a new starting battery but where oh where does the voltage go.
Had this problen on my 1996 376 and it kinda diappeared after much fooling around but no idea what caused it or corrected it. Has resurfaced again. I believe in the low voltage theory as the problem seems less intermitant after sailing all day and or starting the engine and not running it long enough to ain back the starting amps. I'm assuming my starting battery is losing voltage some where even though it is only 2 ears old. Problem never occurs once the batteries are charged up. I'm tninking of trying a new starting battery but where oh where does the voltage go.
Think it is voltage?
Doubt that it is battery voltage. You could easily prove this by carrying on a new one and hooking it directly with jumper cables. The other day I checked the voltages at the starter before I tried to start. The house batteries(pos #2) read 12.91 and the starter battery(pos #1) read 13.01 on the digital VOM. Still, when pushing the starter button, it only clicked the first two times. Third time the solenoid kicked and it started right up.
Doubt that it is battery voltage. You could easily prove this by carrying on a new one and hooking it directly with jumper cables. The other day I checked the voltages at the starter before I tried to start. The house batteries(pos #2) read 12.91 and the starter battery(pos #1) read 13.01 on the digital VOM. Still, when pushing the starter button, it only clicked the first two times. Third time the solenoid kicked and it started right up.
Gone Fishing
I could be wrong as I'm desperately grasping at straws. I believe I'm losing voltage and amps somwhere between my battery and solenoid due to the long cable run 0n th 376. It becomes more critical as the voltage drops a bit. I'd be glad to be totaly wrong if a solution could be found
I could be wrong as I'm desperately grasping at straws. I believe I'm losing voltage and amps somwhere between my battery and solenoid due to the long cable run 0n th 376. It becomes more critical as the voltage drops a bit. I'd be glad to be totaly wrong if a solution could be found
I'm Positive It's Voltage Drop
I'm positive it's voltage drop due to the long cable run. I've been told by too many people that this is a common problem on many boats, not just the 376 or Hunters. Basically I'm told that the cable is just within the margins of what it takes to turn the engine. Once the cable starts to age...not enough juice. If anyone decides to replace the cabling I'd like to know if it works and how difficult it is. Maybe I'll give it a try since I've tried everything else.
I'm positive it's voltage drop due to the long cable run. I've been told by too many people that this is a common problem on many boats, not just the 376 or Hunters. Basically I'm told that the cable is just within the margins of what it takes to turn the engine. Once the cable starts to age...not enough juice. If anyone decides to replace the cabling I'd like to know if it works and how difficult it is. Maybe I'll give it a try since I've tried everything else.
Define "long".
What is a "long" battery cable? I have about 2' between the battery and the battery switch. Then another 4' from the switch to the starter. Is that considered "long"? These are, I think, #4 cables. It would be real easy to run a direct #2 test cable from the battery post directly to the starter if you think that is the problem on my boat. Then there is still that issue about the poor ground, gotta' have the complete path.
What is a "long" battery cable? I have about 2' between the battery and the battery switch. Then another 4' from the switch to the starter. Is that considered "long"? These are, I think, #4 cables. It would be real easy to run a direct #2 test cable from the battery post directly to the starter if you think that is the problem on my boat. Then there is still that issue about the poor ground, gotta' have the complete path.
Same Problem Also
I have a 96 376 and have experienced the same problem occasionally. It occurs mostly after we have anchored out for a long period of time(more than a day) or occasionally after sailing for long periods of time. I don't remember it ever happening at the dock with the shore power having topped off all batteries. I used to feel that I had been trying to start the engine in forward or reverse rather than neutral. The engine has always finally started but it sometimes has taken 5-7 tries of turning the key. I'm sure I hear the solinoid clicking when the key is turned but nothing else! I am going to try some heavy duty battery terminal connectors as I have read that the starter takes 200 amps and my present connectors have very little surface area contact with the starter battery. The problem is that this problem doesn't happen often enough to really be able to track it down.
I have a 96 376 and have experienced the same problem occasionally. It occurs mostly after we have anchored out for a long period of time(more than a day) or occasionally after sailing for long periods of time. I don't remember it ever happening at the dock with the shore power having topped off all batteries. I used to feel that I had been trying to start the engine in forward or reverse rather than neutral. The engine has always finally started but it sometimes has taken 5-7 tries of turning the key. I'm sure I hear the solinoid clicking when the key is turned but nothing else! I am going to try some heavy duty battery terminal connectors as I have read that the starter takes 200 amps and my present connectors have very little surface area contact with the starter battery. The problem is that this problem doesn't happen often enough to really be able to track it down.
Anew Approach
I'm wondering if a new battery with higher cranking amps would overcome the voltage loss problem. Ed you seem skeptical.The run is a good 10 feet from battery to starter.
I'm wondering if a new battery with higher cranking amps would overcome the voltage loss problem. Ed you seem skeptical.The run is a good 10 feet from battery to starter.
How about a new cable.
Mark: Unless you battery is weak, I doubt that another bigger battery is going to help. I would suggest a larger cable from the battery to the starter.
Mark: Unless you battery is weak, I doubt that another bigger battery is going to help. I would suggest a larger cable from the battery to the starter.
Somewhat skeptical.
Probably because my gels were expensive and almost inaccessible where I installed the starter battery. If I were anxious to solve the problem I would take one out of my car/van and connect it with three foot sections of #2 cable, lay it right in front of the engine. But since it always starts eventually, and always immediately if I jump it with a screwdriver, I have let it ride. The attached old Hunter wiring diagram has some lengths and resistance values. This is exactly how my H37C is wired. I have VDO gauges instead of lamps which I don't think changes anything. The 'mm' numbers are millimeters I suppose and equate to wire gauges. I have to go but you can convert the millimeters from the chart below. Note the large differences in resistance. AWG OHMS PER WIRE SIZE 1000 FT. DIAMETER 1 .1264 .2893 2 .1593 .2576 3 .2009 .2294 4 .2533 .2043 5 .3195 .1819 6 .4028 .1620 7 .5080 .1443 8 .6405 .1285 9 .8077 .1144 10 1.018 .1019 11 1.284 .0907 12 1.619 .0808
Probably because my gels were expensive and almost inaccessible where I installed the starter battery. If I were anxious to solve the problem I would take one out of my car/van and connect it with three foot sections of #2 cable, lay it right in front of the engine. But since it always starts eventually, and always immediately if I jump it with a screwdriver, I have let it ride. The attached old Hunter wiring diagram has some lengths and resistance values. This is exactly how my H37C is wired. I have VDO gauges instead of lamps which I don't think changes anything. The 'mm' numbers are millimeters I suppose and equate to wire gauges. I have to go but you can convert the millimeters from the chart below. Note the large differences in resistance. AWG OHMS PER WIRE SIZE 1000 FT. DIAMETER 1 .1264 .2893 2 .1593 .2576 3 .2009 .2294 4 .2533 .2043 5 .3195 .1819 6 .4028 .1620 7 .5080 .1443 8 .6405 .1285 9 .8077 .1144 10 1.018 .1019 11 1.284 .0907 12 1.619 .0808
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