Last race of the season, my Favorite is the Port Clinton Yacht Club's Snow Flurries Regatta. We had tied for 2nd place last year but the tie breaker bounced us to 3rd. I felt going in we had a good shot at winning this Regatta. We won the 1st race and were on track to win the 2nd race. We got a bad start and split from the fleet to get clean air. We sailed out about a mile and were happy woth pour results. We then tacked back to cover the fleet and get back to the middle of the course. As we were sailng back keeping on our on the rest of the boats one boat that owed us allot of time cleared in front with out a problem but close enough that we had him. The second boat a Person 30 was sailing well and we knew it would be a close cross. As we got closer I moved to the low side to keep and eye on them for the crossing. We are on starboard tack and have the right of way. I could see the skipper and was sure he had seen us come from across the course. As we get closer I yell Starboard, again I yell. It is blowing 20 knots and we have 4 to 5 foot waves. I am sure he is going to duck us, but he does not and we get hit just aft of the chain plates. He punched though the toe rail, life lines and smashed into the Cabin top and punched a hole through the Cabin Top just in front of the Portside window. He also punched through the interior head liner. He had never seen us and did not hear me yelling. We then came apart and we sailed off dropped sail's and checked for water down below. We had none and nobody got hurt. We then motored over to the Person to see how thay had faired. Nobody hurt just a messed up bow and broken Roller Furling. I am so thankful that nobody got hurt and the only damage was to the boats. They can be fixed and soon will be. I am so glad it happend at the end of the season rather than the begining. Biggest dissapointment is we were on track to win our class. Cliff Ruckstuhl Hunter 28.5 "Red Dog"
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DSQ'D?
Cliff, It was as much your responsibility as the skipper of the other boat to avoid the collison. If you had ducked him, you could have protested and probably improved your spot in the regatta. As it is you are DNF he is DSQ. Something to think about in the future. PS: Still no excuse for the other skipper not to hear or acknowledge your "STARBOARD" hail.
Cliff, It was as much your responsibility as the skipper of the other boat to avoid the collison. If you had ducked him, you could have protested and probably improved your spot in the regatta. As it is you are DNF he is DSQ. Something to think about in the future. PS: Still no excuse for the other skipper not to hear or acknowledge your "STARBOARD" hail.
It's not your fault
People always cite Rule 14 and tell you that it's your fault if you get t-boned. I don't really agree. We duck so closely that we could hand one another sodas as we passed. A misunderstanding in a situation like that could result in a collision. That's just competitive racing. The rules say that the ROW boat doesn't have to give way until it's clear that the burdened boat will not keep clear. That doesn't mean you have time to get completely out of someone else's way. It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I don't think you violated the RRS. The only bad thing you did was get into a race with someone who was out to lunch. Just my opinion, Paul sv Escape Artist h336
People always cite Rule 14 and tell you that it's your fault if you get t-boned. I don't really agree. We duck so closely that we could hand one another sodas as we passed. A misunderstanding in a situation like that could result in a collision. That's just competitive racing. The rules say that the ROW boat doesn't have to give way until it's clear that the burdened boat will not keep clear. That doesn't mean you have time to get completely out of someone else's way. It probably doesn't make you feel any better, but I don't think you violated the RRS. The only bad thing you did was get into a race with someone who was out to lunch. Just my opinion, Paul sv Escape Artist h336
Paul
Beg to differ with you. Any collison that causes damage can be avoided, and both boats can be penelized.
Beg to differ with you. Any collison that causes damage can be avoided, and both boats can be penelized.
Cliff said he was sure the other skipper saw him
so given this false assumption, wasn't it the most prudent course to stand on? Do racer's ever use horns/whistles when voices don't carry far and the give way skipper hasn't acknowledged? Scott "cruiser" Wilson
so given this false assumption, wasn't it the most prudent course to stand on? Do racer's ever use horns/whistles when voices don't carry far and the give way skipper hasn't acknowledged? Scott "cruiser" Wilson
I could hit a boat in any race....
... and there's nothing the other guy could do about it. All I need is for someone else to count on the fact that I'm not an idiot. Rule 14 wasn't put in to make *everybody* guilty when there's a collision. Rule 14 is there to punish people who run out in front of cars on purpose, in a manner of speaking. I don't think that's the case here.
... and there's nothing the other guy could do about it. All I need is for someone else to count on the fact that I'm not an idiot. Rule 14 wasn't put in to make *everybody* guilty when there's a collision. Rule 14 is there to punish people who run out in front of cars on purpose, in a manner of speaking. I don't think that's the case here.
Coulda,woulda,shoulda
Neither one of us wanted this out come. I needed to make a split second decsion when it became apparent he was going to hit us and had not seen us. If we had tacked we could have been holed buy getting hit in a very thin area of the hull. If we had chose some other action we could have been hit in the stearn of the boat causing a hole and sinking. I have thought about this and have talked with the Skipper of the Person about it. I too have ducked a boat where we could have shook hands as we passed. That is all part of it. Racing always has it's risk's. We race because we love it and what other sport can a bunch of people all different ages all compete equal?? We both did with draw and headed for the dock. We both were at some kind of fault. He was at fault for not staying clear and giving the right of way, I was at fault for assuming he had seen us and did not take action to make sure ther was no collsion. Next time I will have a horn in the cockpit and will be ready to duck him and than yell for protest. I was just so glad no one was hurt. It could have had a very different out come. When we race I sometimes don't always drive and I was not driving in this regatta. But I am fully aware of where the fleet is and we are always talking about where all the boats are. We are always looking around to see who is going where. They on the other hand were out of tune with the surroundings, they had ther heads in the boat and where not looking around. How many times have you been fiddling with the car radio or cell phone and had your head in the car and not looking around you?? It happens all the time, I am sure our courts are full of fender benders because someone was dialing ther Cell Phone and bumbed someone in front of them. In this case they had ther heads in the boat and were consentrating on driving the boat and not looking to see what the fleet had done. It was a accident that could have been avoided and should have been avoided. But was not and nobody was hurt. So we learn from this and we get the boats fixed and we change his name from Ramon to T Bone. Cliff Ruckstuhl "Red Dog"
Neither one of us wanted this out come. I needed to make a split second decsion when it became apparent he was going to hit us and had not seen us. If we had tacked we could have been holed buy getting hit in a very thin area of the hull. If we had chose some other action we could have been hit in the stearn of the boat causing a hole and sinking. I have thought about this and have talked with the Skipper of the Person about it. I too have ducked a boat where we could have shook hands as we passed. That is all part of it. Racing always has it's risk's. We race because we love it and what other sport can a bunch of people all different ages all compete equal?? We both did with draw and headed for the dock. We both were at some kind of fault. He was at fault for not staying clear and giving the right of way, I was at fault for assuming he had seen us and did not take action to make sure ther was no collsion. Next time I will have a horn in the cockpit and will be ready to duck him and than yell for protest. I was just so glad no one was hurt. It could have had a very different out come. When we race I sometimes don't always drive and I was not driving in this regatta. But I am fully aware of where the fleet is and we are always talking about where all the boats are. We are always looking around to see who is going where. They on the other hand were out of tune with the surroundings, they had ther heads in the boat and where not looking around. How many times have you been fiddling with the car radio or cell phone and had your head in the car and not looking around you?? It happens all the time, I am sure our courts are full of fender benders because someone was dialing ther Cell Phone and bumbed someone in front of them. In this case they had ther heads in the boat and were consentrating on driving the boat and not looking to see what the fleet had done. It was a accident that could have been avoided and should have been avoided. But was not and nobody was hurt. So we learn from this and we get the boats fixed and we change his name from Ramon to T Bone. Cliff Ruckstuhl "Red Dog"
Pretty clear answer to this one
Doesn't matter if you are cruising or racing it is the responsibility of "all" skippers to keep a look out for other traffic and in all situations avoid colisions. I reckon they are both to blame!
Doesn't matter if you are cruising or racing it is the responsibility of "all" skippers to keep a look out for other traffic and in all situations avoid colisions. I reckon they are both to blame!
For Peggie
I clicked on the link included with your post and wondered what on earth "Getting rid of boat odors" has to do with this incident? Thinking it through though there may be some relevance.
- Regards
I clicked on the link included with your post and wondered what on earth "Getting rid of boat odors" has to do with this incident? Thinking it through though there may be some relevance.
- RegardsGood for you, Cliff..
.. for recognizing yours as well as the other skippers error. As two boats approach on opposite tacks it becomes very apparent early on whether or not an impact is immanent. If the relative bearing of the other boat remains constant to yours then an impact is immanent and you must take evasive action and then protest. However, the entire problem would not exist had the other skipper been aware of your presence. Failing an acknowledgment from your hail, a horn would have been a wise last resort before you’re taking evasive action. We carry a protest flag and a horn at the helm at all times for just such an event as this.
.. for recognizing yours as well as the other skippers error. As two boats approach on opposite tacks it becomes very apparent early on whether or not an impact is immanent. If the relative bearing of the other boat remains constant to yours then an impact is immanent and you must take evasive action and then protest. However, the entire problem would not exist had the other skipper been aware of your presence. Failing an acknowledgment from your hail, a horn would have been a wise last resort before you’re taking evasive action. We carry a protest flag and a horn at the helm at all times for just such an event as this.
Once again Paul
Your quote concerning rule 14 is appropriate here. Thats exactly what both skippers did, they ran out in front of other each other without regard for the consequences. As stated earlier, the thing Cliff should have done was duck, protest and continue on. His boat would not have been damaged and he still may have been in position to finish well in the race. As it is he DNF'd, and has a hole in his boat.
Your quote concerning rule 14 is appropriate here. Thats exactly what both skippers did, they ran out in front of other each other without regard for the consequences. As stated earlier, the thing Cliff should have done was duck, protest and continue on. His boat would not have been damaged and he still may have been in position to finish well in the race. As it is he DNF'd, and has a hole in his boat.
Cliff
I respect your comments in your last post. There is some good to come out of your incident, as long as the lesson was learned. I to love to sail boat race, but when all things are considered, it is just a sail boat race and there is no reason to chance injuries or damage just to prove a point. Hopefully, everyone in your club does the best you can against one another out on the race course, but when you get to the after race party, you all shake hands and have a fun time disuccing the days events. One of the things that has hurt racing over the years is all the supposed "rock stars" arguing over crap like this. It was great to read your closure.
I respect your comments in your last post. There is some good to come out of your incident, as long as the lesson was learned. I to love to sail boat race, but when all things are considered, it is just a sail boat race and there is no reason to chance injuries or damage just to prove a point. Hopefully, everyone in your club does the best you can against one another out on the race course, but when you get to the after race party, you all shake hands and have a fun time disuccing the days events. One of the things that has hurt racing over the years is all the supposed "rock stars" arguing over crap like this. It was great to read your closure.
now that the protest meeting is over
we have discussed the merits of this insident and justified both parties positions. the protest commitee must find that a boat on starboard still has the responseablity to avoid colision. The port tack boat had no rights but the collision was not avoided by a boat that clearly had time and opportunity to avoid the collison. the protest commitee has to find both parties wrong. sorry. great lesson for people who dont realise the safety of all concerned is the formost concideration. I ran one over too in the same situation, i got to buy the other owner another boat.
we have discussed the merits of this insident and justified both parties positions. the protest commitee must find that a boat on starboard still has the responseablity to avoid colision. The port tack boat had no rights but the collision was not avoided by a boat that clearly had time and opportunity to avoid the collison. the protest commitee has to find both parties wrong. sorry. great lesson for people who dont realise the safety of all concerned is the formost concideration. I ran one over too in the same situation, i got to buy the other owner another boat.
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