I recently became the owner of a 1991 Hunter 335. I keep her on a mooring here in the Lake Worth Inlet area in West Palm Beach, FL. One of the things I noticed right away when I paddled away for the first time...she has a slight list to starboard, obviously a weight and balance problem. It seems that all the tankage is on the starboard side. Has anyone noticed this and if so....any ideas about removing water tank in V-Berth area and adding water tank under port settee?
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Mine, too...
My 1988 33.5 also lists to starboard. I won't go to the trouble of re-plumbing just to even it out, but that's just my opinion. Its really a cosmetic issue, to me.
My 1988 33.5 also lists to starboard. I won't go to the trouble of re-plumbing just to even it out, but that's just my opinion. Its really a cosmetic issue, to me.
Uh-huh.
Hi Brent, Yeah they seem to do that. One of the owners of my marina asked me if maybe I had some water leakage as she'd noticed my list to starboard. The bilge is bone dry, but yes it definitely lists. I'm not sure why. The water tank is amidships in the bow. The fuel tank is full and to port. The holding tank is to starboard, but it's empty. The best solution I've heard is to store beer under the port settee. ;-) The imbalance doesn't seem to impact sailing ability, but it bothers me too. I've just decided to try to ignore it. And then somebody brings the problem up on the web site.... Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Hi Brent, Yeah they seem to do that. One of the owners of my marina asked me if maybe I had some water leakage as she'd noticed my list to starboard. The bilge is bone dry, but yes it definitely lists. I'm not sure why. The water tank is amidships in the bow. The fuel tank is full and to port. The holding tank is to starboard, but it's empty. The best solution I've heard is to store beer under the port settee. ;-) The imbalance doesn't seem to impact sailing ability, but it bothers me too. I've just decided to try to ignore it. And then somebody brings the problem up on the web site.... Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Our H340 Too!!
Hi, Brent. Our H340 also seems to lean ever-so-slightly to starboard. It's not much, but even a degree or two is noticeable looking at that tall mast from directly behind. Water is center fore, fuel and holding are balanced in the rear. All batteries are on the starboard, but that shouldn't be enough to do it (~210 pounds). Let's see....210 pounds to balance....sounds like a 25 gallon wine tank on the port side should just about do it! :>) Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Hi, Brent. Our H340 also seems to lean ever-so-slightly to starboard. It's not much, but even a degree or two is noticeable looking at that tall mast from directly behind. Water is center fore, fuel and holding are balanced in the rear. All batteries are on the starboard, but that shouldn't be enough to do it (~210 pounds). Let's see....210 pounds to balance....sounds like a 25 gallon wine tank on the port side should just about do it! :>) Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Carl and Jule
Wow, you guys have heavy batteries! Methinks it may be an excuse to stock more wine. Serious question. If the wine tank is on the side opposite the list, does the wine have to be port? Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Wow, you guys have heavy batteries! Methinks it may be an excuse to stock more wine. Serious question. If the wine tank is on the side opposite the list, does the wine have to be port? Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
See the archives
This topic was discussed at length some time ago. You might check the archives fora look at all the helpfull suggestions. My thought on this is that the cheapest, fastest, and easiest fix is to store enough beer (or wine, whiskey, etc) on the high side to level the boat. The only drawbacks to this approach are that the system will require routine replenishmnet and maintenance and that it works better if the holding tank is on the same side of the boat. Good Sailing Bill Murray S/V Good Faith H29.5 #175
This topic was discussed at length some time ago. You might check the archives fora look at all the helpfull suggestions. My thought on this is that the cheapest, fastest, and easiest fix is to store enough beer (or wine, whiskey, etc) on the high side to level the boat. The only drawbacks to this approach are that the system will require routine replenishmnet and maintenance and that it works better if the holding tank is on the same side of the boat. Good Sailing Bill Murray S/V Good Faith H29.5 #175
Just a thought about your list
I have an acquaintance in California that had just this same thing on another brand of boat and it turned out that the keel was cast with the surface out of plumb with the hull. Drove him nuts until he droped the keel and had it fixed.
I have an acquaintance in California that had just this same thing on another brand of boat and it turned out that the keel was cast with the surface out of plumb with the hull. Drove him nuts until he droped the keel and had it fixed.
Right Handed Design Team
Congradulations on the new boat! I hope you enjoy her as much as we enjoy our H34, which also happens to have a slight starboard list. With Galley, Head, holding and fuel tank, Air Conditioner and refrigerator all on the Starboard side I'm amazed that our list isn't more pronounced. Design oversite I'll accept that, keel problem, probably not. Initially we solved the problem by adding 250lbs of lead to the port side as ballast. ( A radiologist friend of mine gave me all the shipping containers I wanted, they are 25lbs a piece, about the size of a grapefruit and no, the boat does not glow in the dark.) We've since removed most of the ballast as we've made a concience effort to store heavy items to port and lighter items to starboard. And the more I think about the logic of having a Port port wine tank well, maybe I'll soon have a slight list to port.
Congradulations on the new boat! I hope you enjoy her as much as we enjoy our H34, which also happens to have a slight starboard list. With Galley, Head, holding and fuel tank, Air Conditioner and refrigerator all on the Starboard side I'm amazed that our list isn't more pronounced. Design oversite I'll accept that, keel problem, probably not. Initially we solved the problem by adding 250lbs of lead to the port side as ballast. ( A radiologist friend of mine gave me all the shipping containers I wanted, they are 25lbs a piece, about the size of a grapefruit and no, the boat does not glow in the dark.) We've since removed most of the ballast as we've made a concience effort to store heavy items to port and lighter items to starboard. And the more I think about the logic of having a Port port wine tank well, maybe I'll soon have a slight list to port.
Right versus left hand.
What's funny is that if this theory were true, my dad's designs would have lists to port! (as he was a lefty.) There are (perhaps unfortunately) several parameters that sort of govern which side of the boat gets what-- sort of like how orchestras always have certain instruments in certain places. The first I can think of is the quarter berth. Traditionally the captain always has the bunk in the starboard quarter (whether or not half of it is under the cockpit or not). In sailing ships there would be a compass fitted to the underside of the deck above so he could mind the on-watch helmsman's course. In the typical yacht the chart desk and all the electronic/electrical stuff go on this side too. In smaller boats this usually means the galley is to port, with its refrigerator, stove, and possibly stove fuel tanks and water tanks besides. I'm not sure this is a fair trade-- depends on the boat and how much is added or altered after the basic design. In small yachts you then have the issue of the passageway forward. There is no particular reason why the doorway of the main bulkhead needs to be to one side or the other and it's a good opportunity for the designer to stipulate that the toilet and holding tank might go on whichever side they need to be to balance the other stuff out. The sensible thing is to have major tankage on centre, like a holding tank under the vee berth and a fuel tank under the cockpit, and at least one good fresh-water tank to either side, usually under the settees (call it water ballast!). It's sloppy design work for there to be more than a one-tank imbalance either side-- since the hull is symmetrical the whole case comes down to what interior fittings have been put where. So long as athwartships bulkheads are full-width (no L shapes) it should not matter which side the head or stateroom door go on and so these things should have been sorted out in the design phase to accommodate side-to-side balance issues. Of course larger yachts with watermakers, water heaters, laundry machines, generators, airconditioners and deep-freezers get exceeeding complex-- but the principle of arms and moments that is a staple of sound yacht design remains the same and ought to have been followed. The very WORST thing is for an owner to have to ADD weight to balance it out (shudder!), but when that's the only solution it only highlights a profound failure on the part of the designer and builder. Then again any time you have an unnamed 'design team' credited it may be indicating there was NO full 'design phase' at all and that these issues were sorted out on the production floor and by non-design professionals-- which, sadly, sounds like the case with Brent's boat. JC 2
What's funny is that if this theory were true, my dad's designs would have lists to port! (as he was a lefty.) There are (perhaps unfortunately) several parameters that sort of govern which side of the boat gets what-- sort of like how orchestras always have certain instruments in certain places. The first I can think of is the quarter berth. Traditionally the captain always has the bunk in the starboard quarter (whether or not half of it is under the cockpit or not). In sailing ships there would be a compass fitted to the underside of the deck above so he could mind the on-watch helmsman's course. In the typical yacht the chart desk and all the electronic/electrical stuff go on this side too. In smaller boats this usually means the galley is to port, with its refrigerator, stove, and possibly stove fuel tanks and water tanks besides. I'm not sure this is a fair trade-- depends on the boat and how much is added or altered after the basic design. In small yachts you then have the issue of the passageway forward. There is no particular reason why the doorway of the main bulkhead needs to be to one side or the other and it's a good opportunity for the designer to stipulate that the toilet and holding tank might go on whichever side they need to be to balance the other stuff out. The sensible thing is to have major tankage on centre, like a holding tank under the vee berth and a fuel tank under the cockpit, and at least one good fresh-water tank to either side, usually under the settees (call it water ballast!). It's sloppy design work for there to be more than a one-tank imbalance either side-- since the hull is symmetrical the whole case comes down to what interior fittings have been put where. So long as athwartships bulkheads are full-width (no L shapes) it should not matter which side the head or stateroom door go on and so these things should have been sorted out in the design phase to accommodate side-to-side balance issues. Of course larger yachts with watermakers, water heaters, laundry machines, generators, airconditioners and deep-freezers get exceeeding complex-- but the principle of arms and moments that is a staple of sound yacht design remains the same and ought to have been followed. The very WORST thing is for an owner to have to ADD weight to balance it out (shudder!), but when that's the only solution it only highlights a profound failure on the part of the designer and builder. Then again any time you have an unnamed 'design team' credited it may be indicating there was NO full 'design phase' at all and that these issues were sorted out on the production floor and by non-design professionals-- which, sadly, sounds like the case with Brent's boat. JC 2
The obvious question...
...as JC suggests: how much of this is due to heaters, gensets, AC units, heavier mattresses, refrigeration, dinghy storage, books, and wine (or should I say Port, unless it's stored starboard)? I swear my wife made my 450 list with her shoes. Seems to me the designer would aim to balance the boat with full tanks and basic gear. Maybe?
...as JC suggests: how much of this is due to heaters, gensets, AC units, heavier mattresses, refrigeration, dinghy storage, books, and wine (or should I say Port, unless it's stored starboard)? I swear my wife made my 450 list with her shoes. Seems to me the designer would aim to balance the boat with full tanks and basic gear. Maybe?
Gary!
Hi, Gary! We have three group 27 AGM's, about 70 pounds each. Yeah, AGM's are heavy. As for the wine, we tend to follow that life philosophy that states; "Life is a Cabernet". And we much prefer to discuss the wine list instead of the boat list, but somehow we always seem to end up with a "to-do" list! BTW, California had a tough year in 1998, which is the current vintage being sold. Whatever bothered California in 1998 seems to have spared Washington state; we have recently been buying a lot of Columbia Crest and Chateau St. Michelle from Washington state; good stuff! Wow!! Has this thread ever gotten "off course"! Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Hi, Gary! We have three group 27 AGM's, about 70 pounds each. Yeah, AGM's are heavy. As for the wine, we tend to follow that life philosophy that states; "Life is a Cabernet". And we much prefer to discuss the wine list instead of the boat list, but somehow we always seem to end up with a "to-do" list! BTW, California had a tough year in 1998, which is the current vintage being sold. Whatever bothered California in 1998 seems to have spared Washington state; we have recently been buying a lot of Columbia Crest and Chateau St. Michelle from Washington state; good stuff! Wow!! Has this thread ever gotten "off course"! Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Now wait just a minute Cherubini....
You kind of raise my hackles when you say,"any time you have an unnamed 'design team' credited it may be indicating there was NO full 'design phase' at all". Your father designed for Hunter some of the finest yachts they have ever built and you should rightly be proud. It was a real toss up for us between the traditional, seaworthy, "Cherubini" H37 and the roomier, coastal cruising, "design team" H34. We chose the H34 because it was the best compromise, and I'm sure you'll agree that all boats are a compromise, for the type of lifestyle/sailing style for us. The designs are different but one is not inferior to the other. I wanted Brent to know that the starboard list problem is common in several of the boats not just the 33.5 and probably not a problem with a miscast keel as a previous post had mentioned. In our case it has more to do with owner add-ons: AC, 2nd battery bank, my wife's shoes, etc. than anything else. I agree that adding ballast was a dreadful thing to do, but it was temporary. As we moved the 2nd battery bank to the port side and redistributed storage of stuff, it was removed.
You kind of raise my hackles when you say,"any time you have an unnamed 'design team' credited it may be indicating there was NO full 'design phase' at all". Your father designed for Hunter some of the finest yachts they have ever built and you should rightly be proud. It was a real toss up for us between the traditional, seaworthy, "Cherubini" H37 and the roomier, coastal cruising, "design team" H34. We chose the H34 because it was the best compromise, and I'm sure you'll agree that all boats are a compromise, for the type of lifestyle/sailing style for us. The designs are different but one is not inferior to the other. I wanted Brent to know that the starboard list problem is common in several of the boats not just the 33.5 and probably not a problem with a miscast keel as a previous post had mentioned. In our case it has more to do with owner add-ons: AC, 2nd battery bank, my wife's shoes, etc. than anything else. I agree that adding ballast was a dreadful thing to do, but it was temporary. As we moved the 2nd battery bank to the port side and redistributed storage of stuff, it was removed.
Andy, we all know its your wifes fault...
right???????? I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms here, but women have more shoes than earth has trees... we just need to enforce the 2 pair rule.. One pair of dock siders and well .. another pair just in case the first gets wet. Maybe the water tank, waste tank fuel tank all being full or empty might just throw things off a bit. You could just add some lead to the high side. good luck. all in fun.
right???????? I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms here, but women have more shoes than earth has trees... we just need to enforce the 2 pair rule.. One pair of dock siders and well .. another pair just in case the first gets wet. Maybe the water tank, waste tank fuel tank all being full or empty might just throw things off a bit. You could just add some lead to the high side. good luck. all in fun.
Not a biggy
OK, my 33.5 lists too. My otherwise flawless 1988 model has always done that. Keeping diesel tank half full and holding tank pumped before leaving her does a good job of correcting. Or, I can have my 4 year old stay on port side of boat. Under setee, I keep all my tools, kerosene for force 10 heater (and a 90 lb sack of sand would really do the trick). I know ballast makes sailers shiver. Oh no the extra weight! There goes .001 of a knot of speed! Remember, these are not open class 60's. They are cruuuuuzers. So the weight of a ten year old is not going to make you loose the regatta next weekend. Have fun. Doug
OK, my 33.5 lists too. My otherwise flawless 1988 model has always done that. Keeping diesel tank half full and holding tank pumped before leaving her does a good job of correcting. Or, I can have my 4 year old stay on port side of boat. Under setee, I keep all my tools, kerosene for force 10 heater (and a 90 lb sack of sand would really do the trick). I know ballast makes sailers shiver. Oh no the extra weight! There goes .001 of a knot of speed! Remember, these are not open class 60's. They are cruuuuuzers. So the weight of a ten year old is not going to make you loose the regatta next weekend. Have fun. Doug
Agree with Cherubini
It drives me crazy that my 2000 310 won't sit on her lines. I'm thinking of storing a couple hundred feet of spare anchor chain under the port settee (next to the holding tank) to try and even things out. I can't imagine how pronounced the list would have been with air conditioning and refrigeration installed (all on stbd side). Also, had to have the waterline raised on this years bottom job to help keep the scum off my gel coat. On the bright side, I think the boat sails a little better on stbd tack.
It drives me crazy that my 2000 310 won't sit on her lines. I'm thinking of storing a couple hundred feet of spare anchor chain under the port settee (next to the holding tank) to try and even things out. I can't imagine how pronounced the list would have been with air conditioning and refrigeration installed (all on stbd side). Also, had to have the waterline raised on this years bottom job to help keep the scum off my gel coat. On the bright side, I think the boat sails a little better on stbd tack.
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