I'm sure this is listed somewhere, but I cannot find a good thread. I stepped my mast at home on the trailer this afternoon on my new to me '85 Hunter 23. I had a hard time getting the forestay attached and had to add a couple of shackles to make it reach. Then when looking at it from the ground, it appears that my mast tips or bends aft, yet the backstay is loose. Is it boat specific or generic how to adjust the stays and shrouds? If so where can I find a how to?
Standing rigging
- Thread starter T_well
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Assuming that the shrouds and stays are correct for the mast, the side shrouds are probably adjusted too tight. The shrouds provide a significant force pulling the mast towards the stern. You should not need extra shackles to attach the forestay.
Loosen the turnbuckles until they are about 2/3 open. This will keep the shrouds from pulling the mast aft. HAND TIGHTEN the turnbuckles keeping the mast straight. This is an iterative process! Adjust one side partway then go to the other side. Don't try to tighten any one shroud or stay all at once. Adjust the tension to be equal on each side while keeping the mast straight.
Once this is done, the shrouds need to be tensioned accurately to a percentage of the cable's breaking strength using a tensioning gauge. This will vary for each boat, the rake of the mast, wind speed encountered, etc. On my Capri 22 the 1/8" lower shrouds are set for 220 lbs. while the 5/32" upper shrouds are set for 520 lbs. In 15 knot winds, the leeward inner shroud is not visibly slack.
Others may give you more precise instructions for your boat. A tensioning gauge is much more accurate for the average person than adjusting "until it feels right".
Loosen the turnbuckles until they are about 2/3 open. This will keep the shrouds from pulling the mast aft. HAND TIGHTEN the turnbuckles keeping the mast straight. This is an iterative process! Adjust one side partway then go to the other side. Don't try to tighten any one shroud or stay all at once. Adjust the tension to be equal on each side while keeping the mast straight.
Once this is done, the shrouds need to be tensioned accurately to a percentage of the cable's breaking strength using a tensioning gauge. This will vary for each boat, the rake of the mast, wind speed encountered, etc. On my Capri 22 the 1/8" lower shrouds are set for 220 lbs. while the 5/32" upper shrouds are set for 520 lbs. In 15 knot winds, the leeward inner shroud is not visibly slack.
Others may give you more precise instructions for your boat. A tensioning gauge is much more accurate for the average person than adjusting "until it feels right".
j-lever
If you're going to step often, I recommend a "Johnson Lever". You'll need to shorten one of your stays to fit it to the boat but it's worth it. Essentially, you install the lever in your stay of choice and adjust your rigging. When it's time to unstep the mast, you pull the pin in the lever, and carefully open it. Now, your stays are loose enough to pull the pin on whatever stay you remove.
When you step the mast, you raise it, attach the stay and throw the lever. No putzing with adjustment. Now there are those that will jump in and insist that no boat can sail, no boat is safe, or nobody is sane, if the rigging isn't adjusted, finely tuned every time you sail. Poppycock. And no car is safe unless you do a complete walk-around checking every light, every tire and all the fluids, before you start the engine. Now, you should check your rigging, tune it when needed, make adjustments. But, as a daysailor, possible pocket cruise, get 'er up and get 'er out there!
If you're going to step often, I recommend a "Johnson Lever". You'll need to shorten one of your stays to fit it to the boat but it's worth it. Essentially, you install the lever in your stay of choice and adjust your rigging. When it's time to unstep the mast, you pull the pin in the lever, and carefully open it. Now, your stays are loose enough to pull the pin on whatever stay you remove.
When you step the mast, you raise it, attach the stay and throw the lever. No putzing with adjustment. Now there are those that will jump in and insist that no boat can sail, no boat is safe, or nobody is sane, if the rigging isn't adjusted, finely tuned every time you sail. Poppycock. And no car is safe unless you do a complete walk-around checking every light, every tire and all the fluids, before you start the engine. Now, you should check your rigging, tune it when needed, make adjustments. But, as a daysailor, possible pocket cruise, get 'er up and get 'er out there!
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Hello T_well,
(1) Depending on your relationship with the person from whom you bought the boat you could ask for some info on the rigging situation. (2) Check that the shroud connections are not twisted/kinked at the upper part of the mast. I have had that happen when putting the mast up. (3) If you need to adjust the shrouds and stays park the trailer on level ground fore and aft to be able to approximate the boat setting on its waterline. (4) I like "dscribner's" suggestion of the lever. There are at least two types available. They have different amounts of adjusting holes and may be for differing sizes of cable. I added one to the forestay of our Celebrity. It is still a work in progress to get it to work smoothly and get the proper tension.
Respectfully, Phil
(1) Depending on your relationship with the person from whom you bought the boat you could ask for some info on the rigging situation. (2) Check that the shroud connections are not twisted/kinked at the upper part of the mast. I have had that happen when putting the mast up. (3) If you need to adjust the shrouds and stays park the trailer on level ground fore and aft to be able to approximate the boat setting on its waterline. (4) I like "dscribner's" suggestion of the lever. There are at least two types available. They have different amounts of adjusting holes and may be for differing sizes of cable. I added one to the forestay of our Celebrity. It is still a work in progress to get it to work smoothly and get the proper tension.
Respectfully, Phil
Hunter 23 Owners Manual - Mrunix.net
www.mrunix.net/h23/docs/h23_owner.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
A. Tuning the Conventional Fractional Rig (Hunter 23, Hunter. 26.5, Hunter 333, Legend 35, Legend 37). TUNING THE RIGGING: After raising your mast, attach ...
This manual has everything you need. Also if you Google Hunter 23 mast tune, you'll get many more hits on the subject. Remember to step the mast without any "pre-bend". Te headstay will then be long enough.
www.mrunix.net/h23/docs/h23_owner.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
A. Tuning the Conventional Fractional Rig (Hunter 23, Hunter. 26.5, Hunter 333, Legend 35, Legend 37). TUNING THE RIGGING: After raising your mast, attach ...
This manual has everything you need. Also if you Google Hunter 23 mast tune, you'll get many more hits on the subject. Remember to step the mast without any "pre-bend". Te headstay will then be long enough.
Thanks guys ! Going to look at those shrouds, suspect that's my problem. I had already been looking at that Johnson Lever as well. I'll have to check it later because NCAA football is on now!
I forgot this was the trailer sailor forum. It is important that the setup is quick and simple.
The forestay "Johnson Lever" or similar device would make setup and breakdown go much quicker. It is important to set up the shroud tension close to the correct tension before the first sail.
Since the forestay appeared too short, the side shrouds are probably too tight. But the forestay can appear too short if the side shrouds are tightened properly for higher winds.
At this point, you do not know if the tension is correct or not.
Check it now before you go on the water.
After that, you will gain a sense of the proper tension. Remember that a certain amount of preventative maintenance is much more important than making offerings to Neptune.
BTW, I periodically trailer my Capri 22. I use the jib and spinnaker halyards to help pull the mast forward enough to attach the forestay. My boat has a CDI fuller that prevents me from using a "Johnson level". That way I do not have a full readjustment each time.
I rig the boat fairly regularly, but I use a mast raising gin pole. The advantage there is that it's easy for me to crank down on it to make the forestay pin, especially since I'm using a 5:1 reeving with large ball bearing blocks and the main sail halyard rope clutch to hold the line. It's hard to make the forestay pin as it is, with a furled genoa on the CDI unit, but cranking down on the gin pole makes it much easier.
That necessitates overtensioning the shrouds to get the stretch I need, of course, but I doubt the imposed loads are any higher than sailing loads.
That necessitates overtensioning the shrouds to get the stretch I need, of course, but I doubt the imposed loads are any higher than sailing loads.
I've see folks put the lever under the drum of the furler. It doesn't seem right to me, but I guess it works. Our Lancer is suppose to step rearward. The problem is that if you do it that way, the mast is well beyond the balance point by the time you get the pin in. So, I swapped it. I made a tabernale that has a "J" shaped open slot and installed a fixed pin in the mast. Now, I roll it over the stern pulpit, push down and slide back about 4 inches. Add the gin pole and about 5 minutes she looks like a sailboat. The lever is in the backstay.
One question I have never really been able to answer myself as I think you could only tell by racing but I see postings noting that a straight leading edge of the jib is important for going upwind.
I’ve attached a picture of a modern DN iceboat rig with a "designed in" bendy mast. This is a very efficient rig that will scream upwind yet the leading edge has a fairly dramatic curve.
So how important is to get rid of that last little bit of bend in the leading edge. I would think that the sail maker could easily take this into account on the sail cut and then it would not matter at all. Hopefully we can get some actual racing experience to answer this..
I’ve attached a picture of a modern DN iceboat rig with a "designed in" bendy mast. This is a very efficient rig that will scream upwind yet the leading edge has a fairly dramatic curve.
So how important is to get rid of that last little bit of bend in the leading edge. I would think that the sail maker could easily take this into account on the sail cut and then it would not matter at all. Hopefully we can get some actual racing experience to answer this..
Attachments
The Johnson lever works great on the backstay of my O'Day 222 and I really can't speak for other boats on this. If you can throw enough slack into your fore stay to remove it by loosening your back stay, the Johnson lever will work on your boat.
Mounting the lever on the bow stem chain plate would be an excellent idea. It would provide enough room for an anchor roller and you could still mount your CDI Roller Furler on your fore stay above the Johnson lever and still have room to work your anchor. I have a 5" stainless steel tang mounted on my bow stem chain plate along with a BRM-2 Windline anchor roller which is designed for a Bruce Anchor. I'm using a Fortress FX-11 Aluminum anchor.
Mounting the lever on the bow stem chain plate would be an excellent idea. It would provide enough room for an anchor roller and you could still mount your CDI Roller Furler on your fore stay above the Johnson lever and still have room to work your anchor. I have a 5" stainless steel tang mounted on my bow stem chain plate along with a BRM-2 Windline anchor roller which is designed for a Bruce Anchor. I'm using a Fortress FX-11 Aluminum anchor.
Hey Walt I think you may be mistaken about the:
"One question I have never really been able to answer myself as I think you could only tell by racing but I see postings noting that a straight leading edge of the jib is important for going upwind."
I think there is info out there about the leading edge of the jib having a bit of a curve helping up wind performance. I'll try and find the link...
Ok I think I found it here. http://www.onemetre.net/index.htm
I know its a 1M model sailboat site BUT; There boats fit in wind tunnels very easily... And they seem to have access to wind tunnels... They can make major modafications in one or two minutes. I think they like all the math involved too...
The site is FULL of interesting and useful info on sale shape etc. Sorry I can't find the direct link to the front of the sail.
Its worth a few hours or days of reading. I have moved some of my teltales on my jib because of what I have learned there.
"One question I have never really been able to answer myself as I think you could only tell by racing but I see postings noting that a straight leading edge of the jib is important for going upwind."
I think there is info out there about the leading edge of the jib having a bit of a curve helping up wind performance. I'll try and find the link...
Ok I think I found it here. http://www.onemetre.net/index.htm
I know its a 1M model sailboat site BUT; There boats fit in wind tunnels very easily... And they seem to have access to wind tunnels... They can make major modafications in one or two minutes. I think they like all the math involved too...
The site is FULL of interesting and useful info on sale shape etc. Sorry I can't find the direct link to the front of the sail.
Its worth a few hours or days of reading. I have moved some of my teltales on my jib because of what I have learned there.
Look at pictures of J-24's going up wind. Most of the times they will have scallops on the sail even though they have a tight headstay. Same with Sonars. etc.
I was passed by a J24 the other day. It was doing about 100km/h! He didn't even have his mast up! I was merging and fell behind then passed on the port side at about 120km/h.
Got it on film! Check my YouTube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0i5CU8Rcu0
The boat shows up around 55 seconds.
Got it on film! Check my YouTube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0i5CU8Rcu0
The boat shows up around 55 seconds.
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