Stanchions

[Smithy]

How important are they on a small boat? Mine does not have any installed - just has the bow pulpit and nothing else in terms of railing. Every other boat I've been on has some kind of lifeline installed, but I'm wondering why the previous owners of this one never bothered.

I'm mildly concerned about cost, but seriously concerned about safety. I'll likely get some put in on this boat, but would love to hear the collective wisdom on the subject.

 

[LooseDiamond]

When I aquired my C22, it also had no stanchions or lifelines. A search of previous threads revealed that many felt the lifelines were low enough to provide a tripping hazard more so than a "lifeline". I have sailed my boat single-handed much of the 4 years I have been sailing. While I have a tether and harness, I have not missed the lifelines.

 

[tommays]

None of my small boats had them the J24 was the first and three pretty usefull in how a boat like that is used (racing) as you tend to be in a bit of a rush

On bigger boats i race on i find a toe rail big enough to use as a foot brace when the boat is heeled to be of great importance

 

[higgs]

How much deck work do you do and under what conditions do you sail? If you are up on the foredeck a lot and in heavier conditions, then it would seem prudent to have stanchions.

 

[Ron20324]

Hey, hi neighbor! Adding the stanchion bases to a boat not designed for them could be a real problem. Acess to the under-side of the deck at the proper places, and having a beefy enough deck thickness is a must-have.

My B235 had low lifelines that were maybe 16-18 inches? They were low enough that they would have been a pivot-point on the shin and actually advocated falling overboard rather then preventing it. I replaced the stanchions with 24-inch ones made from regular SS tube. I also made new lifelines (on my B323) with the big crimping tool, so if you DIY, it's not a bad job. Send me an E, and we'll get together.

 

[ghost]

If lifelines were meant to prevent people from falling overboard they would be 4 feet high like on a cruise ship.

They are another handhold that can be grasped the entire length of the boat. They are also handy for crew sitting on the high side during a race.

 

[Freedom77]

Never saw the need for stanchions on my V-222. Just something else to get fouled in. Didn't have a stern pulpit either. Never fell off. Grab rails on top of the cabin are a good idea. With the scouts I would definitely require they wear PDF's Keep up the great work on the restoration. As mentioned in another thread check the keel integrity. I assume yours is fiberglass over metal. I had to remove mine and reglass it due to cracks caused by swelling from corrosion of metal core. Keep us posted and we'll help when needed. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

 

[RichH]

Typically on boats of this size (up to 22, etc. ft. LOA) one can 'usually' reach just about anything while standing inside the cockpit or by leaning out from the cockpit.

To add suitably high enough (mid thigh) life lines would possibly become more of danger than not, especially since such boats because of their low mass, low inertia and *very quick* motions.

 

[Smithy]

Not to mention that anything tall enough just looks plain silly on a boat this small.

I need to review the BSA guidelines on the subject, if there are any, but I'm inclined to just run jacklines, and make anyone on the upper deck clip in first. PFD's outside the cabin will be a must, too.

 

[RichH]

One has to remember the famous OSHA cowboy cartoon of what a proper safety systems for that occupation would look like .... .

 

[Smithy]

Well, the good news is, my remembering of the Safety Afloat standards was almost spot on with how it's written. No word on how the boat is to be equipped, but for vessels over 20', lifevests to be worn on deck, optional below deck.

This is good, not because I don't want to keep the kids safe, but I was loathing the process of mounting those things. Especially around the back of the cockpit... the access below is not generous.

 

[catsailor]

I would stay with a good toe rail. I have been on a few small monos that lacked a good toe rail, and that bothered me.

 

[peptobysmol]

I like my lifelines/stanchions on my Hunter 23. While I rarely have to grab them, my kids (5-9yrs) use them ALOT. They frequently sit on the lee side and hold on to the stanchion/lifeline while dipping their feet when the boat heels. Without tethers this wouldn't happen.

 

[rgranger]

Smithy

I have the same boat you do and like you I do not have life-lines. I have had them on other boats I've owned however, in the cockpit of the Mac. I have never felt the need for the life lines and I have sailed her is some heavy conditions. The cockpit is narrow enough that you can reach both sides. HOWEVER! on the bow... in a chop... while trying to dowse the head sail....I have felt insecure at times and wished for toe rails and life-lines.

This summer I'm going to run a life line from my bow pulpit to the the shroud. You can use a hose-clamp and a shackle to make a pad-eye on the bow pulpit for an attachment point and use a shroud cleat and a wire clamp to attach the other end of the life line to your shrouds. I've done this on another boat I have owned.

I have purchased some stanchion bases and plan to put a small stern rail across the back this spring. But this is more for me to attach stuff to than a worry about falling off of the back. It is not hard to attach stanchion basses to the Macs. Just make sure you have sufficient backing plates. I use some scrap oak left over from a hard wood floor installation but any decent backing plate will be fine.

Anti-skid is also on my list of up-grades for this summer. The Mac has some narrow footings around the cabin. Toe rails around the nose also seems like a good idea and I've been thinking of making one out of a bunch of cleats strung in a row. Good luck.

r

 

[zeehag]

i have a 41 ft heavy displacement cruiser with no stern lifelines-- has a teak cap with decorative railing of teak, but i wont interrupt this with stanchions and lifelines. all in cockpit must wear tethers when at sea. when we were young aand learning to sailo, there were no lifelines on the sloop we were taught on board. was national historic treasure-- we had no problem staying on board.

 

[Smithy]

Rgranger, that's a slick idea, running a line from the pulpit to the shroud. I didn't think one was meant to attach anything to them, but I like what you just illustrated, and I'll look into it strongly for the forward deck.

 

[Smithy]

i have a 41 ft heavy displacement cruiser with no stern lifelines-- has a teak cap with decorative railing of teak, but i wont interrupt this with stanchions and lifelines. all in cockpit must wear tethers when at sea. when we were young aand learning to sailo, there were no lifelines on the sloop we were taught on board. was national historic treasure-- we had no problem staying on board.

If it were just my kids, I wouldn't worry so much - I know my limits, and theirs, and I think we'd be fine. But doing this with BSA looming overhead, one can't be too careful in the litigation avoidance department. I need to make sure I've done due dilligence in making sure the craft is safe, without being ridiculous about it.

 

[Ross]

When I must go forward in gnarly weather I like to keep my center of gravity low, so I crawl on hands and knees I like a heavy line close to the deck to hold. I made brackets to fit along the toe rail that support a 3/4 inch double braid line about six inches above the toe rail. The locust brackets are about 2 feet apart. I just hug the deck when it gets too rough to move safely.

 

[Freedom77]

One has to remember the famous OSHA cowboy cartoon of what a proper safety systems for that occupation would look like .... .

I haven't seen the OSHA cowboy poster in years. Truth is truth. LOL. Thanks...

 

[wonkodsane]

Don't sweat lacking lifelines on your 22', especially if you sail mostly on the Upper Potomac. Teach your crew (and maintain the discipline of following) the "One hand for you, one hand for your work" safety philosophy and you will be fine.

We had a 23' Sonic with no lifelines and sailed her out of James Creek (near the stadium) and had no problems at all.