Well we finally did it. My wife and just accomplished a rebedding project on our boat. We had tried everything including life calk until we took the big step and used 5200 to seal and finally stop the chainplates and stanchions from leaking. I urge all of you to take this step. Unless you take off the stanchions and look underneath you would be letting a terrible situation occur until it was to late. The severe corrosion of the aluminum toe rail was a shock and had we ever needed to have the stanchions support our weight with a fall none of them would have because of the corrosion of rail and bolts that were out of sight. so do it. Dont let 5200 scare you. There is a product that you can spray on to break the bond should you ever need to remove the stuff. oh! It took us 4 days and a deep socket 7/16 with ratchet and my wifes small hands to reach up under the lip to find and hold the bolts. The v berth ones are a bitch asare the ones over the galley. But the rest are a cake walk. Enjoy! We are so dry inside and the walls and cushions too. Besides our own lablor it cost us with 5200 and new bolts washers and nuts $38.00
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4200 is recommended
5200 is used for things that you don't really want to come off again. I know from experience that stanchions have a nasty tendency to loosen up with constant pushing & pulling of folks climbing abaord. Things you're likely to rebed, should be bedded with 4200. 5200 doesn't have any better "sealing" property than 4200 and that's what you're using it for, not so much its adhesive qualities (that's what the through-bolts are for). There may be a product to help loosen 5200 but I wish you luck when you actually need to rebed those puppies! Regardless, congrats on finishing a PITA (pain in the a**) project. Rebedding stanchions is one of my least favorites cuz I always get that "small hands required" mission too. I just cringe at the thought of what creepy crawlies I'll find up there. ICK! Hey, I may be a boat chick but I'm still a chick!!
LaDonna
5200 is used for things that you don't really want to come off again. I know from experience that stanchions have a nasty tendency to loosen up with constant pushing & pulling of folks climbing abaord. Things you're likely to rebed, should be bedded with 4200. 5200 doesn't have any better "sealing" property than 4200 and that's what you're using it for, not so much its adhesive qualities (that's what the through-bolts are for). There may be a product to help loosen 5200 but I wish you luck when you actually need to rebed those puppies! Regardless, congrats on finishing a PITA (pain in the a**) project. Rebedding stanchions is one of my least favorites cuz I always get that "small hands required" mission too. I just cringe at the thought of what creepy crawlies I'll find up there. ICK! Hey, I may be a boat chick but I'm still a chick!!
LaDonnaRe-Bedding NOT Enough
Re-Bedding leaky Stanchions, Chainplates, Toe-Rails, and other harware is NOT ENOUGH. If it leaked, then your Deck or House core may be compromised. You have to repair the core matterial, seal it, then re-bed. It's not difficult, unless the dammage to the core is substatial. Contact me for a quick tutorial on "mounting hardware to cored decks" which also applies to re-bedding. I'll fax you a copy. <Gord@Boatpro.zzn.com>
Re-Bedding leaky Stanchions, Chainplates, Toe-Rails, and other harware is NOT ENOUGH. If it leaked, then your Deck or House core may be compromised. You have to repair the core matterial, seal it, then re-bed. It's not difficult, unless the dammage to the core is substatial. Contact me for a quick tutorial on "mounting hardware to cored decks" which also applies to re-bedding. I'll fax you a copy. <Gord@Boatpro.zzn.com>
5200 not good for the
You will never get them off. You should have used 4200. I'd sell the boat and not tell the buyer!
You will never get them off. You should have used 4200. I'd sell the boat and not tell the buyer!
But why?
Ben: I know you guys think that 5200 is the best stuff on earth. I just do not know why you would use it on something that you are going to remove again. I understand using on something like the keel, hull to deck joint or anything that should never come apart again. But why would you use it on a maintenance item like a stanchion. If you cannot get the antibond into the area to loosen the caulking you WILL remove the gelcoat and maybe some fiberglass if it does not release. I am not saying that you should not use this stuff, it is just that I do not understand why you would not use a product that seals just as well and CAN be removed. 3M claims that 4200 has the same capabilities but does not have the same 'GLUING' ability as 5200.
Ben: I know you guys think that 5200 is the best stuff on earth. I just do not know why you would use it on something that you are going to remove again. I understand using on something like the keel, hull to deck joint or anything that should never come apart again. But why would you use it on a maintenance item like a stanchion. If you cannot get the antibond into the area to loosen the caulking you WILL remove the gelcoat and maybe some fiberglass if it does not release. I am not saying that you should not use this stuff, it is just that I do not understand why you would not use a product that seals just as well and CAN be removed. 3M claims that 4200 has the same capabilities but does not have the same 'GLUING' ability as 5200.
5200 mythos
For some reason there is this mythos about never being able to remove items that have been attached with 5200. I have never had a problem. Remove the fasteners from whatever you're trying to unglue. Take a light guage guitar string with the ends wrapped around two pencils to make a wire saw. Use the wire to cut the item free from the boat. Use the solvent to remove the remaining 5200. My take on life is water is a bad thing to have inside my boat. On my boat _everything_ except the portlights is sealed with 5200. I removed items routinely to service or replace them. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
For some reason there is this mythos about never being able to remove items that have been attached with 5200. I have never had a problem. Remove the fasteners from whatever you're trying to unglue. Take a light guage guitar string with the ends wrapped around two pencils to make a wire saw. Use the wire to cut the item free from the boat. Use the solvent to remove the remaining 5200. My take on life is water is a bad thing to have inside my boat. On my boat _everything_ except the portlights is sealed with 5200. I removed items routinely to service or replace them. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Its my boat and I'll 5200'd if I want too!
I have thouroghly enjoyed all the responses. I did check all holes thru the deck to insure no core damage and thankfully there is no core just awesome fiberglass. I have and will continue to use 5200 on everything. I ahve never had a problem removing a item. The boat is so dry now. I had spent big bucks to redo the interior walls and cushions and seeing water leak or drip was driving me mad. We just had 8 inches of snow on the deck last week here on cape cod and the inside heater was on and i was bone dry. I'm completely psyched so much that i put my most loved books back on the wee library shelf port side. Only wimps and unbelievers will not tackle the 5200 project we did. Merry Christmas to all and to all a dry cabin! Capt John
I have thouroghly enjoyed all the responses. I did check all holes thru the deck to insure no core damage and thankfully there is no core just awesome fiberglass. I have and will continue to use 5200 on everything. I ahve never had a problem removing a item. The boat is so dry now. I had spent big bucks to redo the interior walls and cushions and seeing water leak or drip was driving me mad. We just had 8 inches of snow on the deck last week here on cape cod and the inside heater was on and i was bone dry. I'm completely psyched so much that i put my most loved books back on the wee library shelf port side. Only wimps and unbelievers will not tackle the 5200 project we did. Merry Christmas to all and to all a dry cabin! Capt John
It depends what you use it for
Never on anything big above the deck. You'll never get it off. You'll pull the fiberglass off first!
Never on anything big above the deck. You'll never get it off. You'll pull the fiberglass off first!
Its just not hard to do -
Everyone who says pulling things off will take the gel coat is correct. Slicing things off with the wire works even on big stuff. Keeping water out is a priority to me. I'd still use 5200. This is particularly true in the case of stantions, which is where I think this conversation began, because of the force on them at times. Justin
Everyone who says pulling things off will take the gel coat is correct. Slicing things off with the wire works even on big stuff. Keeping water out is a priority to me. I'd still use 5200. This is particularly true in the case of stantions, which is where I think this conversation began, because of the force on them at times. Justin
5200 isn't any better as a sealant as 4200
4200 & 5200 have the same sealant properties. 5200 is more adhesive, meaning it creates a harder bond. Use whatever you want but just don't claim that 5200 is a better "sealant". Knowledge is power! LaDonna
4200 & 5200 have the same sealant properties. 5200 is more adhesive, meaning it creates a harder bond. Use whatever you want but just don't claim that 5200 is a better "sealant". Knowledge is power!
LaDonnaAdhesion and Sealing
Knowlege may be power but it doesn't take much knowlege to realize that if you are trying to create a Lasting Seal between part A and part B then the compound with the better adhesion will give you the longest lasting seal. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Knowlege may be power but it doesn't take much knowlege to realize that if you are trying to create a Lasting Seal between part A and part B then the compound with the better adhesion will give you the longest lasting seal. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
If this is true, why don't they glue on the head.
Stan: If this is true, then why don't they glue on the head on our engines? They do not use adhesive for most engine parts because they are depending on the fasterners to do their job. So I am totally on La Donna side on this issue. Most in part because I prefer the Life products to 4200 or 5200. Keep in mind that I am still a fan of butyl tape for many applications. One big advantage is that the tape does not depend on someone ability to apply the correct amount evenly. You just lay it down, attach your part and bolt it down.
Stan: If this is true, then why don't they glue on the head on our engines? They do not use adhesive for most engine parts because they are depending on the fasterners to do their job. So I am totally on La Donna side on this issue. Most in part because I prefer the Life products to 4200 or 5200. Keep in mind that I am still a fan of butyl tape for many applications. One big advantage is that the tape does not depend on someone ability to apply the correct amount evenly. You just lay it down, attach your part and bolt it down.
Sealant only seals when it stays stuck
When I worked for the evil discount marine supply chain I had to attend meetings with vendor representatives somewhat frequently. The 3M guy came and I asked about 5200. I made the assertion LaDonna just did - same sealant, more adhesive properties. He pointed out that the sealant only seals if it stays stuck to the thing is its supposed to seal. His point - When you hit the end of a stantion you get a pretty good leverage ratio working against whatever is sealing the thing to the deck. If you pull on it harder than the sealant can hold then you will pull the fitting slightly away from the goop. Water can then infiltrate. So - to keep the sealant stuck to the part its supposed to seal, use 5200 so that as the part works it can't break free from the goo. 3M's advice. Not mine, orginally. I've adopted it though. Justin
When I worked for the evil discount marine supply chain I had to attend meetings with vendor representatives somewhat frequently. The 3M guy came and I asked about 5200. I made the assertion LaDonna just did - same sealant, more adhesive properties. He pointed out that the sealant only seals if it stays stuck to the thing is its supposed to seal. His point - When you hit the end of a stantion you get a pretty good leverage ratio working against whatever is sealing the thing to the deck. If you pull on it harder than the sealant can hold then you will pull the fitting slightly away from the goop. Water can then infiltrate. So - to keep the sealant stuck to the part its supposed to seal, use 5200 so that as the part works it can't break free from the goo. 3M's advice. Not mine, orginally. I've adopted it though. Justin
3M products
Hey Steve, I thought we had discussions here. I didn't know you were in charge of choosing up sides!
Hey Steve, I thought we had discussions here. I didn't know you were in charge of choosing up sides!
I want to win.......
David: I thought I wanted to win one, so I am choosing LaDonna to be on my side! <g> What product are you going to use? <g> <g>
David: I thought I wanted to win one, so I am choosing LaDonna to be on my side! <g> What product are you going to use? <g> <g>
3Ms
Steve, I know you disagree but I have always had good luck with 5200 and I like Justin's post.
Steve, I know you disagree but I have always had good luck with 5200 and I like Justin's post.
but my wife says.....
David: Just kidding around here. My biggest complaint with the 3M 4200/5200 products is the fact that they are difficult to apply. When I use the Life Caulk product, it flows easily out of the tube and is easy to spread around as required. The other amazing thing is that I have never had a leak on any fitting that I have used Life Caulk on. Maybe this is why I also like it. I know there are a few of you guys that probably put this stuff on your Peanut Butter sandwiches (you know Peanut Butter and 5200) but do you think that there may be a reason why a company like Hunter does not use it for mounting hardware? And they do use the stuff for several applications on their boats.
David: Just kidding around here. My biggest complaint with the 3M 4200/5200 products is the fact that they are difficult to apply. When I use the Life Caulk product, it flows easily out of the tube and is easy to spread around as required. The other amazing thing is that I have never had a leak on any fitting that I have used Life Caulk on. Maybe this is why I also like it. I know there are a few of you guys that probably put this stuff on your Peanut Butter sandwiches (you know Peanut Butter and 5200) but do you think that there may be a reason why a company like Hunter does not use it for mounting hardware? And they do use the stuff for several applications on their boats.
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