Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudder?

[Dennisail]

Hey guys. I pulled the rudder from my Boat. It has crevice corrosion at the base of the shaft where it enters the rudder. So I need a new shaft or whole new rudder. I am looking here to seek opinions on the best course in action.

Options are, cut apart the rudder and replace the SS shaft (or maybe go to a composite shaft), then glue the rudder back together ad re-laminate. If you suggest this method please explain the rough details of this suggestion. IE where is the best place to slice it up etc to make it easiest to get back together straight.

Another option is to build a whole new rudder, possibly with composite shaft. Note my particular model of boat usually did come with a glass shaft and the fact that it is stainless is actually odd. I do fancy building a boat one day so this might be good project, however I do really want to get this out out sailing again soon.

The rudder is foam and glass and does not appear to be water logged as no water came out of any holes I drilled in it. Some water did slowly drip out where the shaft goes into the rudder. But I even drilled holes around the shaft area from the rudder skins and no water came out, so the water must be fairly localized around the rudder post entry.

It may be hard to see from the pics but it is quite big. Its a 2 person lift and the blade is 1140 x 860 x 118mm, and the post sticks out 930mm and is around 87mm tube 6mm thick.

Any suggestions?

Click for pics

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6tlcndg93nmof42/IMG_2875 (Copy).JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqfxdtdzi638z97/IMG_2876 (Copy).JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o74esp9f7jm8dly/IMG_2878 (Copy).JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxbci2l0fgprj18/IMG_2877 (Copy).JPG

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

If it helps you in weighing alternatives, we replaced our rudder and shaft on a 40.5 we used to own for roughly $4500 about 4years ago. Given the time, labor and logistic headaches, it might be a reasonably cost alternative.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

For a new rudder, contact Foss Foam and they probably have the specs for your boat's rudder and can build and ship one to you. But, if you want to do it yourself, having rebuilt a number of rudders myself, you can just grind in on one side of the rudder until you expose all the metal so that you can pull it out, weld it, or remake it and then place it back in the same spot and glass it up. You could also cut it in half, but it might just not split apart the way you would envision it.

 

[Dennisail]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Thanks. I will have a go an either rebuilding or building a new one. Replacement will be very expensive from Foss Foam with shipping etc.

Bill, do you suggest not splitting the entire shell off one side and rather coming in from one face to expose the skeleton and pulling it out that way?

 

[Marco Garcia]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Hi Dennis,

I replaced my rudder with an original Foss. The rudder with shipping included was 3175.00 USD from Florida to Maryland in February 2011.
You need to consider the diameter of the quadrant center hole to get the proper shaft diameter. As it was explained by him, There were a few different shaft & forms. Perhaps you could get the original diagrams from Foss, or perhaps they have an associate manufacturer down there in your side of the world....

My contact was Al Walker
Foss foam +1 352 529 1104
bobwalker10@aol.com

Good Luck....

 

[Dennisail]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Thanks guys, I will at least try to dissect the old rudder before buying / building a new one. Does anyone know roughly how the stainless tabbing might constructed in this rudder?

Anyway, I am still trying to decide on the best way to rip this rudder apart so that it can be salvaged. I want to be confident that when I do it I am doing right. I have been told several different ways.

Skinning one side by removing the laminate, then digging down to the metal shaft and tabs. This sounds like it would end badly unless the skin is not well bonded?

Chopping in from one side above the shaft and tabs. This should leave enough of the skin to fair over. Once again even if I can use a drill to feel out where the tabs are, it will still be pretty hard to rip the metal part out if its recessed down a hole I cut in the face of the rudder.

Splitting the rudder in half with a sawzall so it comes apart in 2 halves. This should expose the tabbing and it will glue back together easily. The sawzall should be able to get around the tabbing by feel. Seems to have the least drawbacks.

The prob is I have no idea what the tabbing might look like so as to choose the best method. If the tabs are just laying flat as compared the rudder face the sawzall method would be best for sure. But if any tabbing is perpendicular to this plane the rudder may not come apart.

 

[hewebb]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Is there any way you could get it x-rayed to see the metal and use that information to make the cuts?

 

[Fred Villiard]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Don't know if it would work, but maybe with an electronic stud finder you might be able to map the grid, to see how to cut.

 

[kloudie1]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

Dennis, a member, sailaway78, rebuilt his rudder on a Seidelman 37 and took some pix.
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=731311&highlight=rudder
I know not the same as yours, but very similar construction.. He has a lot more pictures and if you drop him a private message, he would be happy to chat..
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=732768&highlight=rudder

 

[Merlin Clark]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

I'd split it using a 4" side grinder with a cut off wheel (thin) and an oscillating multi tool. I'd go with heavier stock too, no real reason to replace a part that isn't up to the job with another insufficient part. Many old boat had solid shafts and that wall thickness looks very light to me for a big boat rudder.
Harbor Freight has both tool for $20-30 but get name brand blades and wheels.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Re: Stainless rudder stock needs replacing in foam core rudd

There probably are some plates welded at right angles to the rudder post. Hard to say how many or where they are located. That is why if you just start grinding away, you will figure it out. You could try to split it right down the middle, but that might create a hornets nest and you will find yourself rebuilding both sides of the rudder. If you dig in on one side, you won't disturb the other and that will be intact so you can verify the original shape when you fiberglass it back up again.