I have heard that some owners have put lead pellets in the keel for better stability, is this true?
Larry
Larry
Stability
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the hull yes,
centerboard and daggerboard a little.
those are not designed to take a lot of loads, without re-engineering.
centerboard and daggerboard a little.
those are not designed to take a lot of loads, without re-engineering.
I've put a lot of thought into this myself. As Mr Bill said you would have to do a bit a re-engineering. My thought is you would have to build a new center board. It would have to be strong enough to handle the side stress that righting moment would place on it. Also you would probably have to beef up the pin. Then comes the problem of pulling up the swing keel. I think even with 50 or 100 lbs at the bottom would need a winch to lift it.
It's too bad Macgregor didn't build them with some weight down there. It would sure help to keep the boat upright with gusty winds. We have a lot of gusty days here. The best you can do is add more sail controls. At least this is what I'm doing each year and really helps.
It's too bad Macgregor didn't build them with some weight down there. It would sure help to keep the boat upright with gusty winds. We have a lot of gusty days here. The best you can do is add more sail controls. At least this is what I'm doing each year and really helps.
If anything, lead in the centerboard will only make it harder to pull up. You can't add enough weight to make a difference. You would gain more by lightening up the weight along the mast.
91 M26s during rebuild after a blacken decker dust buster fire.... While rebuilding one modification was removal of mirror bulkhead. New stain less compression post. Some fiberglass reinforcement under counter to spread load. Filled hollow center board with 50bl.s lead shot from Carters country hunting supplies. Poured slow cure epoxy from the top ... Till it appeared at the weep hole at bottom of board/keel. Then sealed it up water tight. Pressed in a baring sleeve in top of center board for pivot pin to ride on . Reinforced center board cable attachment point . Attached double pendants. Leed pendants up thru center of new s.s.stain compression post centered under mast. Both pendants came up thru the deck inside mast base and out over pulley sheave at back side at base of mast. Left one pendent as spare coiled at base of mast. Then with center board fully deployed cut s.s. cable pendents and swaged a thimble at that end . Attached low stretch braid line . Line lead perfectly back to cabin top jam cleat and then winch.Larry33 said:
Definitely improve righting moment. No downs sides at all. Worked great!!!
So YOU, put 50#of lead shot in the centerboard? or you know someone that did that?
any pics of the pressed in bearing, and other mods?
any pics of the pressed in bearing, and other mods?
A pressed in bearing on the center board would limit the lateral movement of the board and apply a much greater force at the pivot point of the board. Providing that that press in bearing (probably a bushing actually) had much tighter clearance than the original design. The centerboard was designed to "float" and to come to rest against the hull where the majority of force was applied instead of solely at the pivot point.
Master Architect.... I was born this way....God gave me no choice!! :bang: ......So for me it was just all simple common sense....Re-engineered it all by myself..... The pin for center board had been wallowing out the fiber glass hole on the hollow center board. So this was a fix to stop the unnecessary ware and board from flopping around in the center board trunk. The existing pin used by Macgregor was a rolled heavy stainless tube and welded seam. All I did was make another pin just large enough so existing pin fit in side old. Built it to have a very close tolerance so when old pin was inserted there would be no play. Then prepared existing fiber glass pivot pin hole in board to take new sleave. Then pressed new sleeve fitting into the prepared fiberglass hole at top of board. This stopped the tearing of fiber glass and wallowing out of hole on board which was making pivot pin hole in board bigger and sloppy.
Not if you apply thin nylon filler strips to side of board.....Oh sorry I forgot to mention that.
BTW....The clearance of my board in trunk was less 1/16 th each side of board. Board was still allowed to bear against side of trunk if it need to.
Trust me it worked out Great!!!!!!!!!!
do you have, or can you provide; some pics for the rest of use back yard engineers?
my understanding is the side loads are designed to be place on the opening of the centerboard. (or hull).
I thought about putting some shot in my Daggerboard. but I was worried about the internal structure taking the load.
my understanding is the side loads are designed to be place on the opening of the centerboard. (or hull).
I thought about putting some shot in my Daggerboard. but I was worried about the internal structure taking the load.
Had friend who had a weighted center board on his S2 24' .... Other then needing a winch to lift it ... No problems..... Well except for that time time one night when at 3:30 am he was in the Matagorda Triangle hit one on those sand bars .... Broke the board clean right off....Got washed right up on the beach.....Spent a few nights there on the beach waiting for the surf to die down......Then slid the boat back into the gulf and motored around and up the Port o Conner channel to a boat ramp and trailered home. Weighted or not a dagger board will break off. A swing keel weighted or other wise will swing up..... In my case I ran aground many times after I had added the lead shot and I had no structural problems .
Messing around with boats to an extreme! Don't try to change the design of a boat as it was built the way it is for a reason and the builder has a lot more experience than you!
Good way to destroy a boat. Don't get carried away with modifications and enjoy sailing!
When I worked at Idasailor, there was a pile of cracked and broken rudders, daggerboards and centerboards on a pallet behind the shop. Of particular interest to me was the daggerboards that came stock from Macgregor. They were hollow, and designed to fill with water and sink. When they were laid up, stringers of wood were used to hold the shape of the daggerboard. Often this wood had weathered to the point that it had no strength.
I had a daggerboard made that had about 40 lbs of lead in the bottom, it was made of HDPE. There were no extra problems hauling the dboard up and down. I talked to another D owner who poured lead shot into his dboard, followed with a mix of epoxy to hold it in place. I cannot believe that the process did anything but make the dboard stronger.
Saying that one should not mod these boats because the designer knew more than you should be tempered with the idea that Roger was not a college trained boat designer, and that the entire line of Mac boats were made using the least amount of materials and then only just enough to do the job.
I had a daggerboard made that had about 40 lbs of lead in the bottom, it was made of HDPE. There were no extra problems hauling the dboard up and down. I talked to another D owner who poured lead shot into his dboard, followed with a mix of epoxy to hold it in place. I cannot believe that the process did anything but make the dboard stronger.
Saying that one should not mod these boats because the designer knew more than you should be tempered with the idea that Roger was not a college trained boat designer, and that the entire line of Mac boats were made using the least amount of materials and then only just enough to do the job.
The only thing that ever bothers me about messing with a sailboat too much is that the manufacture has liability for their initial design but if you modify too much, you "possibly" can transfer some of that liability to yourself. However, the only real case I can think of is removing the foam from the boat. Say you did this, then sold the boat to someone who was a complete klutz but married to a really evil lawyer. Klutz sinks the boat and worse, evil lawyer goes looking for someone to pay up, manufacture says they are not responsible because someone removed the floatation.
But.. I don’t think messing with the dagger board on a water ballast boat "matters" since it would only improve the self righting and even if it breaks off completely doesn’t affect the self righting.
But.. I don’t think messing with the dagger board on a water ballast boat "matters" since it would only improve the self righting and even if it breaks off completely doesn’t affect the self righting.
Even a really evil lawyer would have trouble with a boat more than 10 years old. Recent legislation has set a time limit on this very thing because, among other things, aircraft manufacturers were being hauled into court for design features on 1960 Cessna 150s.
There is also plausible deniability--I didn't do the mod, it was done by the previous owner. Also, I would make sure the bill of sale said something like "as is".
And finally, if you are so emasculated by the threat of a lawsuit, this forum is not for you. Generally the people here see the Macgregor line as seriously deficient in the amenities that make life comfortable, as seriously deficient in the way the sail rig is installed and used, and really upgraded by the mods we do.:cussing:
I know that my boat is WAY safer than the stock sailboat. But just to be sure, I'll set mine on fire when I need to get rid of it
There is also plausible deniability--I didn't do the mod, it was done by the previous owner
. Also, I would make sure the bill of sale said something like "as is".And finally, if you are so emasculated by the threat of a lawsuit, this forum is not for you. Generally the people here see the Macgregor line as seriously deficient in the amenities that make life comfortable, as seriously deficient in the way the sail rig is installed and used, and really upgraded by the mods we do.:cussing:
I know that my boat is WAY safer than the stock sailboat. But just to be sure, I'll set mine on fire when I need to get rid of it
Get yourself one those Cordless Dust Busters from Blacken Decker...... They will be glad to take care of the fire for your you! :cussing::cussing::cussing:Even a really evil lawyer would have trouble with a boat more than 10 years old. Recent legislation has set a time limit on this very thing because, among other things, aircraft manufacturers were being hauled into court for design features on 1960 Cessna 150s.
There is also plausible deniability--I didn't do the mod, it was done by the previous owner
And finally, if you are so emasculated by the threat of a lawsuit, this forum is not for you. Generally the people here see the Macgregor line as seriously deficient in the amenities that make life comfortable, as seriously deficient in the way the sail rig is installed and used, and really upgraded by the mods we do.:cussing:
I know that my boat is WAY safer than the stock sailboat. But just to be sure, I'll set mine on fire when I need to get rid of it
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