I recently got a 1986 23 foot hunter with a wing keel. The boat is very soft, requiring reefing over 10 knots. If I get knocked down, can I expect it to turn turtle, just stay on its side or right itself? Also, has anyone had any experience with adding extra weight to the keel?
stability of 23
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Welcome to Hunter 23 ownership and to this forum. We have owned our H23 for a little over a year. I've found it heels quickly but doesn't seem to be in danger of capsizing. Sure feels like it at times, though. The rudder will lose its bite as the boat heels and the weather helm will turn the boat into the wind reducing the heel. Can be quite exhilarating.
Can't answer your question about righting or turning turtle. Can honestly say I don't ever want to find out first-hand.
Good luck!
Kermit
Can't answer your question about righting or turning turtle. Can honestly say I don't ever want to find out first-hand.
Good luck!
Kermit
These boats are designed to be underpowered and have good righting characteristics. It is very rare to get slapped down, and they won't turtle for that reason alone. Like Kermit stated, the boat heals, the rudder comes out of the water, the bow swings violently into the wind. All very exciting, and pants soiling, but not even close to a knockdown.
If you use them in the intended conditions (Class C sheltered and coastal waters) you will be safe enough.
Reef early (10 kts is great) and go home when your reefed rig is overpowered.
If you use them in the intended conditions (Class C sheltered and coastal waters) you will be safe enough.
Reef early (10 kts is great) and go home when your reefed rig is overpowered.
My 86 h23 rounds up at 35deg.
I reef the main at 12 knots or sooner depending on my crew
I furl the jib as needed before it is needed
I have been in 30+ knots with 2 feet of jib out and a lashed main
We healed 30deg. in those conditions
It was my 20 year old sons high wind sailing lesson and we stayed out 9 hours between 20-30+ knots steady with gusts much higher.
My son and the h23 did perfect.
Reef before you need to reef
I reef the main at 12 knots or sooner depending on my crew
I furl the jib as needed before it is needed
I have been in 30+ knots with 2 feet of jib out and a lashed main
We healed 30deg. in those conditions
It was my 20 year old sons high wind sailing lesson and we stayed out 9 hours between 20-30+ knots steady with gusts much higher.
My son and the h23 did perfect.
Reef before you need to reef
As a former dealer, I have always taught my customers never to heel over 12-14 degrees in any boat. I found that thru saill control, you can obtain your fastest speed.
first, you do not want to scare yourself let alone your wife and children. You wife might bonk you but may never sail again as she is so scared. I have seen one fellow when demonstarting a boat with wife and children thinking it would be fun and go faster when the mainsail touches the water. Twice I allowed this cautioning him. He did not repsond and since this was my boat, I took over the controls and told him I would never sell him a boat. When we got back to the dock, I admonished him in front of his wife and children for being unsafe. Three years later when I ran into him, he thanked me for what I said to him as he did not realize what he was doing and how unsafe he was. She was considering divorce but my remarks turned him around.
Let me go a little futher. When heeling too much, often people try to keep the boat upright with the rudder when actually you are exserting pressure on that rudder as it is acting as a brake. Reduce sail and/or let the sails out. I would suggest reefing the rooler furling first, then reef the mainsail and then if too strong for you, call it a day and come in.
Dave Condon
first, you do not want to scare yourself let alone your wife and children. You wife might bonk you but may never sail again as she is so scared. I have seen one fellow when demonstarting a boat with wife and children thinking it would be fun and go faster when the mainsail touches the water. Twice I allowed this cautioning him. He did not repsond and since this was my boat, I took over the controls and told him I would never sell him a boat. When we got back to the dock, I admonished him in front of his wife and children for being unsafe. Three years later when I ran into him, he thanked me for what I said to him as he did not realize what he was doing and how unsafe he was. She was considering divorce but my remarks turned him around.
Let me go a little futher. When heeling too much, often people try to keep the boat upright with the rudder when actually you are exserting pressure on that rudder as it is acting as a brake. Reduce sail and/or let the sails out. I would suggest reefing the rooler furling first, then reef the mainsail and then if too strong for you, call it a day and come in.
Dave Condon
Thanks for your replys. I do stay off the water when there is too much wind. It is the unexpected gust that is my problem. No one responded to the second part of my question. Does anyone have any experience with adding extra weight to the keel? -- Perhaps 100 or 150 pounds.
I'm pretty sure Click and Clack from Car Talk would suggest taking your mother-in-law along. But you only asked for 100-150 lbs...
To answer your question directly, no, I have no experience adding weight to the keel. Never really considered it. I think reefing would be the better choice.
Kermit
I think adding ballast to the keel would be a bad idea for the following reasons. 1. increased wetted surface will increase drag (slightly).
2. Increased weight might require reconfiguring the keel bolts and reinforcing the keel bolt attachment area on the hull.
3. The need for careful placement of added weight and hydrodynamic streamlining.
IMO you'd be better off following Fly_23's advice of adding ballast inside the hull if you can't find anyone to sit the rails. One area I'd differ, however, is that It'd be a cooler (large) full of beer
2. Increased weight might require reconfiguring the keel bolts and reinforcing the keel bolt attachment area on the hull.
3. The need for careful placement of added weight and hydrodynamic streamlining.
IMO you'd be better off following Fly_23's advice of adding ballast inside the hull if you can't find anyone to sit the rails. One area I'd differ, however, is that It'd be a cooler (large) full of beer
As Crazy Dave said, your best bet is to avoid a knockdown in the first place by reducing sail early. I've been knocked down twice and the boat recovered quickly both times, so I can say from experience that the H23 recovers well. However, that's nothing to brag about. Both knockdowns were caused by over-confidence or inattention on my part while pushing the boat hard.
Dang, I really didn't think the H23 would go over. Do you remember the wind and wave conditions?
This weekend I got myself in a pickle when jibing. I sheeted in the main just like you're supposed to do to keep the boom from slamming over. But then I couldn't get the sheet uncleated from the cam cleat. The boat started heading up towards the wind and the sheeted-in main caused some pretty hairy heeling. Not fun at all. But as you can tell, my First Mate and I lived to tell about it. Except that she doesn't heel and tell...
On these small boats, I just grab the sheets and swing the boom over to jibe.
When running my wife is almost always asleep under the sheets. I either have to lift them off her, or gently lay them onto her for the maneuver so they are in my hands already.
When running my wife is almost always asleep under the sheets. I either have to lift them off her, or gently lay them onto her for the maneuver so they are in my hands already.
Kermit;
Is that the lake on the left going south on I 77 toward Columbia from Charlotte. If so, I am bringing back a 260 I have been working on for the doc.
Crazy dave Condon
Is that the lake on the left going south on I 77 toward Columbia from Charlotte. If so, I am bringing back a 260 I have been working on for the doc.
Crazy dave Condon
Sure is. The signs you see take you to Lake Wateree State Park. We sail there during the summer for ice cream. We're on what we call "The Camden Side" of the lake. The state park is on "The Lugoff Side." When will you be there and which doc are you delivering to?
For Kermit
I had decided not to reef because if I lost time and got caught by the storm, I'd have to drop and secure all sail, deploy the anchor and wait the storm out, which would delay me an hour or so. I believe airplane pilots call that mind-set "get-home-itis". I got nailed by a strong downburst well ahead of the storm, dumped the mainsheet but couldn't reach the jibsheet in time. Given the point of sail and the force of the wind, the boat went over instead of rounding up.
As you discovered, jibing the H23 with the mainsheet can be tricky. You have to let the sheet run freely to avoid the exact situation you had, but you also have to maintain control of the sheet so the boom doesn't slam into the shrouds - which are farther aft of the mast than on most boats. The four-part mainsheet tackle doesn't help because it makes the line run VERY quickly. I wear gloves when the wind picks up to avoid a rope burn when jibing.
The situation was about the same both times: It was late in the day and I was beam-reaching hard to get out of the path of a small, fast-moving thunderstorm. Both times there was a light to moderate chop.
I had decided not to reef because if I lost time and got caught by the storm, I'd have to drop and secure all sail, deploy the anchor and wait the storm out, which would delay me an hour or so. I believe airplane pilots call that mind-set "get-home-itis". I got nailed by a strong downburst well ahead of the storm, dumped the mainsheet but couldn't reach the jibsheet in time. Given the point of sail and the force of the wind, the boat went over instead of rounding up.
As you discovered, jibing the H23 with the mainsheet can be tricky. You have to let the sheet run freely to avoid the exact situation you had, but you also have to maintain control of the sheet so the boom doesn't slam into the shrouds - which are farther aft of the mast than on most boats. The four-part mainsheet tackle doesn't help because it makes the line run VERY quickly. I wear gloves when the wind picks up to avoid a rope burn when jibing.
Peter,
Glad you survived the squall. And thanks for sharing your experience.
Funny thing about jibing. I've found I have less trouble with jibing when I can't see the sail when the bimini is up. Maybe it's because the wind is usually less intense during the summer. Who knows. Maybe last weekend was a one-time fluke. But dang I love our boat!
Glad you survived the squall. And thanks for sharing your experience.
Funny thing about jibing. I've found I have less trouble with jibing when I can't see the sail when the bimini is up. Maybe it's because the wind is usually less intense during the summer. Who knows. Maybe last weekend was a one-time fluke. But dang I love our boat!
Kermit;
Can you email me at davecondon@mindspring.com I will respond in a private email as I try to keep the personal chatter down on this forum. thank you sir.
CRAZZZZZZZZZZZZY
Can you email me at davecondon@mindspring.com I will respond in a private email as I try to keep the personal chatter down on this forum. thank you sir.
CRAZZZZZZZZZZZZY
This video's a bit over the top, but it does show the h23 will right itself after knockdown. I think these guys drank all their "ballast" (and maybe threw the Mother-in-law overboard)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w00suzaDh_A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w00suzaDh_A&feature=related
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