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HF antenna
I believe the way Hunter suggests is to use one of the diagonal uppers which may be of sufficient length even when split with insulators. Check with them to be sure. If that isn't acceptable, another option is to use an owner-installed topping lift and spare halyard to parallel a wire (sloper) antenna which would be more effective than the diagonal. Assuming you have a furling main (small roach sail), you could always put a dummy backstay up and there are probably lots more options. I had a ham radio aboard a couple of years ago and used to have our antenna parallel the backstay (Legend series 40.5) but anything that will tune will work if you have an effective counterpoise. Don
I believe the way Hunter suggests is to use one of the diagonal uppers which may be of sufficient length even when split with insulators. Check with them to be sure. If that isn't acceptable, another option is to use an owner-installed topping lift and spare halyard to parallel a wire (sloper) antenna which would be more effective than the diagonal. Assuming you have a furling main (small roach sail), you could always put a dummy backstay up and there are probably lots more options. I had a ham radio aboard a couple of years ago and used to have our antenna parallel the backstay (Legend series 40.5) but anything that will tune will work if you have an effective counterpoise. Don
Don, question;
I've yet to reconnect our SSB to our backstay but it's slated as a winter project. What do you think of those bronze counterpoise plates. We have one next to the prop that serves as a lightening ground now. Before our rebuild we used the keel but that is all sealed up now. I know the laws of physics haven't changed lately but I would appreciate a knowledgeable opinion.
I've yet to reconnect our SSB to our backstay but it's slated as a winter project. What do you think of those bronze counterpoise plates. We have one next to the prop that serves as a lightening ground now. Before our rebuild we used the keel but that is all sealed up now. I know the laws of physics haven't changed lately but I would appreciate a knowledgeable opinion.
Fred
I'll give you my opinion but no guarantees regarding how knowledgeable... I think the keel is preferable as it's sheer size acts as a larger counterpoise regardless of wheter it's encapsulated. The bronze scintered grounding plates are just that - grounding plates as in DC ground - although used as RF "ground", they are neither intended nor effective as RF grounding. I infer you want to have a counterpoise in close contact with the water?? What little experimenting I did with the ham radio on our boat makes me believe in the old tried-and-true method of spreading as much copper foil around as possible and connecting it to the keel bolt(s). If nothing else, spreading the counterpoise out to achieve greater efficacy will lower the radiation angle of the signal (greater range) and will also minimize the amount of time you spend tracking down all the stray RF getting into all the other electronics (which has nothing to do with DC grounding). Don
I'll give you my opinion but no guarantees regarding how knowledgeable... I think the keel is preferable as it's sheer size acts as a larger counterpoise regardless of wheter it's encapsulated. The bronze scintered grounding plates are just that - grounding plates as in DC ground - although used as RF "ground", they are neither intended nor effective as RF grounding. I infer you want to have a counterpoise in close contact with the water?? What little experimenting I did with the ham radio on our boat makes me believe in the old tried-and-true method of spreading as much copper foil around as possible and connecting it to the keel bolt(s). If nothing else, spreading the counterpoise out to achieve greater efficacy will lower the radiation angle of the signal (greater range) and will also minimize the amount of time you spend tracking down all the stray RF getting into all the other electronics (which has nothing to do with DC grounding). Don
Thanks Don. What do you think of copper (or brass)
screen? You know, like screen door material, only copper. I've read that some boat manufactures glass it into the stern during layup just for future SSB installs. Might be easier to work with. Did you have to keep you foil strips close together?
screen? You know, like screen door material, only copper. I've read that some boat manufactures glass it into the stern during layup just for future SSB installs. Might be easier to work with. Did you have to keep you foil strips close together?
SSB antenna and ground continued
None of the "experts" can agree on the foil/plate/screen counterpoise issue. On our previous boat we used 4" flat weaved tinned copper mesh, layed down in acessable areas in the hull. the effect worked very well. Regarding the topping lift as an antenna. On the 44DS I would think it would interfer with our mainsail. Not fond of using the diagonal either. Perhaps a temp antenna, hoisted aloft when needed is the solution. Thoughts? Thanks in advance, Mike
None of the "experts" can agree on the foil/plate/screen counterpoise issue. On our previous boat we used 4" flat weaved tinned copper mesh, layed down in acessable areas in the hull. the effect worked very well. Regarding the topping lift as an antenna. On the 44DS I would think it would interfer with our mainsail. Not fond of using the diagonal either. Perhaps a temp antenna, hoisted aloft when needed is the solution. Thoughts? Thanks in advance, Mike
antenna stuff
Fred/Mike If I were to do over, that's what I'd try - the mesh screen. No clue how mesh will hold up long-term but so far, so good Fred. One option rather than foil is to use coax braid if you can find any discarded coax - just strip the braid and use that. Proximity is critical but not very practical The efficacy of the counterpoise is directly related to the number of radials and their length, e.g., have over 100 radials 1/4 wavelength long spread in an arc at home for a ham radio vertical antenna - totally impractical for a boat. That's where the mesh will shine and having all that (salt) water around certainly helps mitigate the limitations of my copper strips. Mike - whatever you try, the sunspot cycle and solar flux are at a dead low now so a good antenna and counterpoise becomes more crucial these days. Don
Fred/Mike If I were to do over, that's what I'd try - the mesh screen. No clue how mesh will hold up long-term but so far, so good Fred. One option rather than foil is to use coax braid if you can find any discarded coax - just strip the braid and use that. Proximity is critical but not very practical The efficacy of the counterpoise is directly related to the number of radials and their length, e.g., have over 100 radials 1/4 wavelength long spread in an arc at home for a ham radio vertical antenna - totally impractical for a boat. That's where the mesh will shine and having all that (salt) water around certainly helps mitigate the limitations of my copper strips. Mike - whatever you try, the sunspot cycle and solar flux are at a dead low now so a good antenna and counterpoise becomes more crucial these days. Don
SSB Antenna
Just installed a 9 foot whip SSB ant. from SCG on my stern rail. Its coupled with an ant. tuner and is grounded with a single 10 AWG wire connected to a strut bolt. I have gone the other route and grounded with copper foil through out the boat on my other boats with an insolated backstay. I see no differnce in the radio performance. Go figure!
Just installed a 9 foot whip SSB ant. from SCG on my stern rail. Its coupled with an ant. tuner and is grounded with a single 10 AWG wire connected to a strut bolt. I have gone the other route and grounded with copper foil through out the boat on my other boats with an insolated backstay. I see no differnce in the radio performance. Go figure!
Hunter refers the question out
After a long try at getting an answer out of Hunter, they finally came back with "call Selden, perhaps they would know". One would think Hunter, who aspires to be a company selling cruising boats, would have looked into this issue by now and had a solution. Their response was more putting their head in the sand, than trying to help solve a problem. I can't be the first B&R rig owner wanting to install an SSB. I'll contact Selden and report back on their advice. Mike
After a long try at getting an answer out of Hunter, they finally came back with "call Selden, perhaps they would know". One would think Hunter, who aspires to be a company selling cruising boats, would have looked into this issue by now and had a solution. Their response was more putting their head in the sand, than trying to help solve a problem. I can't be the first B&R rig owner wanting to install an SSB. I'll contact Selden and report back on their advice. Mike
Rick, they're long. A 9 foot antenna that is free
to whip needs to be carefully thought out. On a sailboat the structure to secure it isn't there like on a power yacht. My B&R has a backstay so I installed an insulated section in it. But the ground system was lacking. That's why I'm looking for ideas. And I thought SSB antennas were longer than nine feet. Maybe that was for other ham bands. I don't know. Where's my text book?
to whip needs to be carefully thought out. On a sailboat the structure to secure it isn't there like on a power yacht. My B&R has a backstay so I installed an insulated section in it. But the ground system was lacking. That's why I'm looking for ideas. And I thought SSB antennas were longer than nine feet. Maybe that was for other ham bands. I don't know. Where's my text book?
Pretty Standard Here Now, Fred...
...I also have an insulated backstay. But, most of the guys doing Baha or racers have gone to a whip. Usually mounted on the stern and tied off to the top of the pushpit. I have heard reports of excellent reception and transmission, and many of them just ground to a thru-hull. (Gordon West disputes the need for a full-on foil ground.) Rick D.
...I also have an insulated backstay. But, most of the guys doing Baha or racers have gone to a whip. Usually mounted on the stern and tied off to the top of the pushpit. I have heard reports of excellent reception and transmission, and many of them just ground to a thru-hull. (Gordon West disputes the need for a full-on foil ground.) Rick D.
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