Howdy Sailors! Well, I am trying to figure out how to strengthen the cabin and cockpit soles in my boat. I was thinking of laying new glass cloth and matt using West System’s epoxy. Would that help strengthen the sole? I was going to use 3 layers of each. The problem with the sole is that there are small cracks forming near the bilge compartment access doors. Now if I do this, how do I use the epoxy with the cloth and matt? Am I suppose to omit the hardener and use plastic on top of everything when I’m done, to keep the air out, or can I use the hardener with laying new cloth / matt? I will of course grind the surface that this is going on, and clean with an overabundance of acetone.
Srengthen cabin and cockpit soles
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Epoxy nut
Strength by design
The fact that you mentioned 'omitting' the hardener shows that you aren't comfortable with epoxy and how it works. Get the WestSystem book and read it - twice, then look at your project again. My opinion is that you can strengthen the sole by making it thicker but it is a heavy and expensive way to do things. I think you might have better luck trying to figure out why it is flexing and, if possible, looking underneath to see if you can design and implement some sort of support structure. Good luck.
The fact that you mentioned 'omitting' the hardener shows that you aren't comfortable with epoxy and how it works. Get the WestSystem book and read it - twice, then look at your project again. My opinion is that you can strengthen the sole by making it thicker but it is a heavy and expensive way to do things. I think you might have better luck trying to figure out why it is flexing and, if possible, looking underneath to see if you can design and implement some sort of support structure. Good luck.
S
Sanders LaMont
On the right track
I think Epoxy Nut is right. That WM book is very helpful and cheap to boot. As for the strengthening, I would also look underneath first. It may be possible to use fiberglass straps to strengthen the joints where bulkheads meet the overhead decking. That was done on my boat by a previous owner and the surveyor approved it as a way of strengthening the boat's structure. It may also be possible to glass in a sheet of marine plywood from underneath. Good luck.
I think Epoxy Nut is right. That WM book is very helpful and cheap to boot. As for the strengthening, I would also look underneath first. It may be possible to use fiberglass straps to strengthen the joints where bulkheads meet the overhead decking. That was done on my boat by a previous owner and the surveyor approved it as a way of strengthening the boat's structure. It may also be possible to glass in a sheet of marine plywood from underneath. Good luck.
Aluminum
Actually, I have removed all of the wood from the boat, not that I don't care for wood ( I don't) its just that alumimnum I think will be much less of a PITA. I like the idea of laying a sheet of aluminum down, and eposing that in...once its etched. I asked about the Epoxy 'cause in the West Systems book it makes mention of using a vacuum seal with laying new lamintaes, but wasn't sure if I was reading that right.
Actually, I have removed all of the wood from the boat, not that I don't care for wood ( I don't) its just that alumimnum I think will be much less of a PITA. I like the idea of laying a sheet of aluminum down, and eposing that in...once its etched. I asked about the Epoxy 'cause in the West Systems book it makes mention of using a vacuum seal with laying new lamintaes, but wasn't sure if I was reading that right.
Epoxy doesn't have "hardener"
polyester has that. The polyester hardener is properly called an initiater. It simply starts the process of polymerization and does not become an essential chemical component of the final product. There are other things which will do that too - ultraviolet light, heat. Polyester resin contains other components too. They are promoters and inhibiters. Promoters speed up the process and reduce shelf life. Inhibiters slow the process and air is an inhibiter. Thus the unprotected surfaces will remain sticky for a long time while the main mass will set up. Do not thin polyester with acetone as it inhibits as well. With epoxy, there are two components which actually react with each other. Both are necessary for polymerization to happen and both will contribute to the final result. It is essential that they are in the correct ratio to each other or else you will have a weak product or it may not harden at all. You can thin epoxy with lacquer thinner and others without too much problem and it will penetrate cracks very well. If you want to stiffen the deck, put something under it like wood or plastic to give it some thickess and glass over that. I would use epoxy and thin the first coat to get a good bond and seal and fill any cracks.
polyester has that. The polyester hardener is properly called an initiater. It simply starts the process of polymerization and does not become an essential chemical component of the final product. There are other things which will do that too - ultraviolet light, heat. Polyester resin contains other components too. They are promoters and inhibiters. Promoters speed up the process and reduce shelf life. Inhibiters slow the process and air is an inhibiter. Thus the unprotected surfaces will remain sticky for a long time while the main mass will set up. Do not thin polyester with acetone as it inhibits as well. With epoxy, there are two components which actually react with each other. Both are necessary for polymerization to happen and both will contribute to the final result. It is essential that they are in the correct ratio to each other or else you will have a weak product or it may not harden at all. You can thin epoxy with lacquer thinner and others without too much problem and it will penetrate cracks very well. If you want to stiffen the deck, put something under it like wood or plastic to give it some thickess and glass over that. I would use epoxy and thin the first coat to get a good bond and seal and fill any cracks.
lots of info
Patrick, thanks for the information. What about your link though, there was nothing there, could you maybe repost it. This is something I plan on attacking next weekend so all the information you have for me is greatly needed
Patrick, thanks for the information. What about your link though, there was nothing there, could you maybe repost it. This is something I plan on attacking next weekend so all the information you have for me is greatly needed
No link
I do not know what happened but I did not mean to include any link. Maybe look up West Systems or West Marine or just do a search online. One other point, I would not use aluminum too much in my boat. It corrodes easily and fiberglass does not stick to it as well as plastic or wood. It expands at a different rate than plastics and over time will break away. You could use PVC pipe cut in half for a cheap structural form to lay glass onto. Like I said, foam works too and contributes some floatation. Make sure that the resin does not dissolve the foam before you commit to using it. Whatever you do, epoxy is the best for most of these kinds of projects. I have been told that epoxy will adhere to polyester but polyester will not adhere to epoxy.
I do not know what happened but I did not mean to include any link. Maybe look up West Systems or West Marine or just do a search online. One other point, I would not use aluminum too much in my boat. It corrodes easily and fiberglass does not stick to it as well as plastic or wood. It expands at a different rate than plastics and over time will break away. You could use PVC pipe cut in half for a cheap structural form to lay glass onto. Like I said, foam works too and contributes some floatation. Make sure that the resin does not dissolve the foam before you commit to using it. Whatever you do, epoxy is the best for most of these kinds of projects. I have been told that epoxy will adhere to polyester but polyester will not adhere to epoxy.
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