Spring lines, Yes or no?

[paul1938]

I have a Hunter 33 that is docked in Marina Del Rey, in a slip, not an End-tie. I have been using dock lines on all 4 corners[?] and have been using a spring line also. Where I am in MDR there is little or no wave action, and in fact little wind, most of it, the wind, being broken up by the buildings and the mass of masts surrounding us. Once you are in the main channels you have both wind and some waves.
But my question is, why do I need spring lines? I was walking around the docks Sunday and it seems that half of the boats have them, and half don't. The End-ties all have spring lines.

 

[kappykaplan]

Spring lines are useful to keep winds that are parallel to the dock from pulling the vessel away from its position

I use two spring lines, in addition to the other four. I single hand a lot, and the forward spring is the first line on as I back into the slip - can't hit the dock with the stern. The second line on is usually the aft spring.

BoatUS did an article on spring lines last year - https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...kQFjAG&usg=AFQjCNFl5ZW1h0U1xi5SlpTB3BBFWAF5_Q

 

[Skipper]

In MDR I'm guessing that you have floating docks. If so, don't need spring lines. Just cinch the corners down. I was in Dana Point for years; never used a spring line except for added protection during an oncoming storm.

Spring lines are for stationary docks, where tidal ranges require loose corner lines. The spring lines then prevent the boat from hitting the dock forward (or aft, depending on how you park it) since all the lines are loose. Stationary docks are much wider, to allow for loose lines.

 

[Benny17441]

It just depends on how high the average tides are at your location. A floating dock for the effect of tie lines just represents zero tide fluctuations. Spring lines can also assist in steering the boat when docking or departing. There are no set rules, it just depends on your conditions.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Spring lines prevent the boat from moving fwd or aft appreciably. Straight bow and stern lines can't prevent that motion.

Additionally, springs can facilitate docking, stopping and turning out of a slip, They are your friend.

 

[bffatcat]

spring lines

listen to Kappy, Don etc use em

 

[Skipper]

Again, don't need them with So Cal floating docks. Many years in So Cal. Those who are foreign, don't know. The slips are barely wider than the boats (pictures). If you wanted, you could pull in, step off the boat, chat with your dock mates, rummage for beer in the cooler, etc, before even tying a dock line (unless there's wind ahead). The slip holds the boat in position. I usually tied it up before anything else, but it was a leisurely task.

The floating dock is a great luxury. Some don't realize that floating docks negate the need for spring lines. 4 lines and fenders, in a splayed fashion. Cinched down. That's it. The corner lines hold the boat fore, aft, stbd and port. Any salt from So Cal can tell you this.

The exception is bad weather, which is a once-a-year (if that) rarity in So Cal. Then you need spring lines for added safety and movement prevention. Maybe. Otherwise, the boat sits in it's slip in the calm harbor waters, and doesn't move. There are no surprise thunderstorms, no freak wind events, no storms at all really, and if there are, we know days ahead that they're coming.

Edit: Afterthought - if you look at the one pic, there's only one boat using a spring line. Depending on the size of the boat vs the slip, and the cleat locations, a spring line may be needed. However, don't just assume - then you'll be managing 2 more lines for the rest of your sailing life for no reason.

 

[Winkfish]

Again, don't need them with So Cal floating docks. Many years in So Cal. Those who are foreign, don't know. The slips are barely wider than the boats (pictures). If you wanted, you could pull in, step off the boat, chat with your dock mates, rummage for beer in the cooler, etc, before even tying a dock line (unless there's wind ahead). The slip holds the boat in position. I usually tied it up before anything else, but it was a leisurely task.

The floating dock is a great luxury. Some don't realize that floating docks negate the need for spring lines. 4 lines and fenders, in a splayed fashion. Cinched down. That's it. The corner lines hold the boat fore, aft, stbd and port. Any salt from So Cal can tell you this.

The exception is bad weather, which is a once-a-year (if that) rarity in So Cal. Then you need spring lines for added safety and movement prevention. Maybe. Otherwise, the boat sits in it's slip in the calm harbor waters, and doesn't move. There are no surprise thunderstorms, no freak wind events, no storms at all really, and if there are, we know days ahead that they're coming.

Edit: Afterthought - if you look at the one pic, there's only one boat using a spring line. Depending on the size of the boat vs the slip, and the cleat locations, a spring line may be needed. However, don't just assume - then you'll be managing 2 more lines for the rest of your sailing life for no reason.

Wow!!! Talk about packing 'em in!!!

 

[Joe]

The position of the dock cleats in relation to your boat's cleats will determine if you need a spring line. In my slip, when the boat is bow in, both sets of dock cleats are well inside the bow and stern, which means both sets of dock lines angle back/forward... preventing fore and aft movement. (by tensioning the lines correctly I never need fenders either, which keeps the side of the boat from getting marred.)

If I slip the boat stern in.... the dock cleat and stern cleat are abreast of each other, so the line provides no resistance fore and aft. In this case a spring is needed to prevent the boat from surging towards the walkway.

So... to answer your question.... If you can adjust your bow and stern lines so the boat doesn't move fore and aft, then you don't need springs. Whether it's a floating dock or not is not going to be the decision maker.... it's cleat position.

 

[Skipper]

Whether it's a floating dock or not is not going to be the decision maker.... it's cleat position.

It will be if there's tide. You have to leave the lines very loose if it's a stationary dock and there's tide. This means needing a spring line to prevent hitting the dock forward at level tide. There are no aft and mid dock cleats on the stationary docks out here in the east. Only pylons in the water to attach lines. And one little short dock finger on one side. Oh how I miss CA.

A floating dock allows tight dock lines and precise positioning, negating the need for spring lines.

 

[shemandr]

Are you MDR guys saying that each boat has floating dock fingers on each of it's port and starboard sides? That would seem to waste a lot of marina space.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Are you MDR guys saying that each boat has floating dock fingers on each of it's port and starboard sides? That would seem to waste a lot of marina space.

Andrew, it all depends on how you approach the "design" of the marina, and what the criteria are.

Yes, no doubt it "wastes" space, but the convenience for boaters is tremendous. We have one harbor here that has double slips, i.e., finger, two boats, finger, two boats, etc. It also happens to be beam on to the prevailing westerlys here. It S*cks BIG TIME, and there is NO ONE who likes the layout. The only reason it is so popular is that it is right downtown SF next to the ballpark, and you've probably seen it on TV if you watch baseball.

Undoubtedly, they did it that way to fit more boats in, but at what cost to scarred hulls from imprudent skippers, compared to almost every other single marina in Northern California, and, I don't doubt, in So. Cal, too.

Are we "spoiled?" Compared to what has been described and what I've seen back east, and in countless "How do I dock my boat?" discussions on this and other forums, YOU BETCHA.

We recognize that you're lucky if you have more than four planks length on a "slip" and then some pilings halfway into the fairway.

But there may well be reasons for that. Like, you may not have floating docks. Almost all of ours are, I have yet to see one that isn't. You have to take your docks out of the water for winter, we don't have to. Less docks, less work for seasonal stuff.

So, it's both a reality and one with good reasons.

That's why, like almost everything else in boating, there is no BEST, nor one size fits all.

 

[Skipper]

Are you MDR guys saying that each boat has floating dock fingers on each of it's port and starboard sides? That would seem to waste a lot of marina space.

Yes, both sides. This means that tying up the boat can be done completely while standing on the dock. You just walk over pick up the line off the dock and tie it to the boat cleat. No boat hooks. No running around pushing off. No getting cockeyed in the wind. Also easy to wash and maintain the boat especially the hull sides.

It takes up about as much space as other docks, as the slips are narrower, and they can be because loose lines are not needed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You just walk over pick up the line off the dock and tie it to the boat cleat. No boat hooks.

I use a boat hook. I never get off my boat until all four docklines are connected to the boat. I leave the dock lines on my dock and pick 'em up with the boat hook. In the slip, two aft lines, engine off, two bow lines. I never jump off my boat, even at other docks. Bad for the knees and back, ya know.

 

[Skipper]

I use a boat hook. I never get off my boat until all four docklines are connected to the boat. I leave the dock lines on my dock and pick 'em up with the boat hook. In the slip, two aft lines, engine off, two bow lines. I never jump off my boat, even at other docks. Bad for the knees and back, ya know.

Yes, no jumping. Also bad for other body parts if you slip and fall. :-0. It was easy for me to just step off and grab the stbd stern line and wrap it to the cleat. The boat is touching the dock. Everything is right there. Then meander forward to the bow cleats, while positioning the boat with a hand. Then port stern. I could see a safety issue in other circumstances, but in this case I believe it's safe to exit the boat then attach the lines. I mean, it's not going anywhere. If there's wind or etc then maybe set a couple first.

 

[shemandr]

Stu and Skipper,
No judgement about the arrangement - just a little surprise.
Yeah, I've had "Slips" that are little more than a few planks to tie up to. Some of them half rotted. I've also sailed on OPB's where the trip out on the docks was way more hazardous than anything that might happen underway.
I'll check out that marina the next Giants home game I watch.

 

[Johnb]

One advantage of spring lines is that by virtue of their position they are more in line with fore and aft forces on the boat. That means that if the wind is coming from bow or stern they hold the boat in position with much less line tension than if the bow and stern lines have to resist that force. That translates to smaller forces on the cleats and lines and thus less wear and tear.

 

[Joe]

The guy's in a floating dock in Marina del Rey... that's in California...... let's give him some info that will help him there, today.

This is typical so cal marina floating dock slip..... with fingers on both sides and the dock cleats inside the bow and stern cleats... they're somewhat diagonal and preventing the boat from moving side to side and fore and aft, therefore, no spring is necessary.

If you flip the boat around stern in....the walk way side cleat (now the bow end) would not be in a position to inhibit fore and aft movement.... so a spring would be advised to prevent the boat moving too much.....

So.. as I stated before... it depends on your dock cleats' position relative to your boat's cleats...as to whether you need a spring... just because you think the waters are calm or there's no boat wake action.. is not a good reason to 86 the spring line... if you can push your boat around in the slip where it might hit the edge or cause excessive wear.... then you need a spring for further security.... I don't know about MDR, but in San Diego we do get storms, Santana winds and high wave surge occasionally affecting or vessels, even though they seem secure most of the time... so... as stu says: "It's your boat....and it's your neighbors boat, too" .

 

[paul1938]

reply to dock finger question

Are you MDR guys saying that each boat has floating dock fingers on each of it's port and starboard sides? That would seem to waste a lot of marina space.

Yes most if not all of the slips in MDR have fingers on both Port and Starboard sides. I have done away with fenders also as I installed lateral fenders[bumpers?] on both sides of my slip. That does away with dealing with fenders when leaving or entering my slip.
i must admit that i have the dock wheels on my slipalso, my wife calls them "training wheels'