I own a 1971 Ericson 29 that has some spongy areas on the deck. Not large and don't appear to be structural but I want to fix them. I also want to update the non-skid on my deck and it seems appropriate to do both at the same time. The current non skid is just a simple slightly raised molded grid. The process I was planning to follow was. 1. Drill small holes throughout the top layer of fiberglass throughout the area where the core is spongy. I figured the holes would be about a quarter inch apart where the corners of the raised grid come together in the low area. 2. Injecting Acetone I think into those holes to dry them out. 3. Inject Polyester resin into the holes to fill them up. 4. Using Polyester resin fill the existing non skid grid patter with a thickened agent to make it flat and fill in all the valleys. 5. Fair and smooth this new finish. 6. Paint these areas with Durabak or Rhino Liner or some similar non skid paint. I would use a gray or similar neutral color. I have heard of this approach being used before and it seems good since I don't have to rip up the decks and make a big mess. I also like this because I can work on it in sections without having to do the entire deck all at once. Anyone done this before, how did it work, lessons learned, advice, etc. Thanks in advance.
Spongy Deck Restore Project
- Thread starter maccauley123
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Deck Repair
I have used the same basis method to repair solf areas in my deck ( 1972 O'Day 22). Except: Did not use acetone. Used "non-expanding" insulation foam (Home Depot, Lowe's & etc.) The foam is activated by moisture. Fill the "hole" at the deck level with Marine-Tex. Paint the Marine-Tex using automobile touch-up paint (small bottle) that matches the deck color. You can only do so much to an older glass boat. It will drive you nuts trying to get it perfect. Good Luck
I have used the same basis method to repair solf areas in my deck ( 1972 O'Day 22). Except: Did not use acetone. Used "non-expanding" insulation foam (Home Depot, Lowe's & etc.) The foam is activated by moisture. Fill the "hole" at the deck level with Marine-Tex. Paint the Marine-Tex using automobile touch-up paint (small bottle) that matches the deck color. You can only do so much to an older glass boat. It will drive you nuts trying to get it perfect. Good Luck
There is in all things a way to fix the problem
and several ways to remedy the problem. If the deck has gone spongy it is a structrual problem. You can blindly drill holes and fill with what ever comes to hand or you can take the deck apart and replace the rotted core with new structrual core. If you choose the former it will last for a while and if you choose the latter it will last for many years. The fill and go method is a one shot deal and when it finally goes bad you will either junk the boat or bite the bullet and make a proper repair. I know that there are many that count the cost of repairs against the future sale of the boat. And I also know that there are more old boats than there are willing buyers. I won't go into the economics of boat ownership because I don't consider it to be an investment.
and several ways to remedy the problem. If the deck has gone spongy it is a structrual problem. You can blindly drill holes and fill with what ever comes to hand or you can take the deck apart and replace the rotted core with new structrual core. If you choose the former it will last for a while and if you choose the latter it will last for many years. The fill and go method is a one shot deal and when it finally goes bad you will either junk the boat or bite the bullet and make a proper repair. I know that there are many that count the cost of repairs against the future sale of the boat. And I also know that there are more old boats than there are willing buyers. I won't go into the economics of boat ownership because I don't consider it to be an investment.
Maccauley123
Where do you keep your Ericson? I also have an Ericson. Looks like we have a lot in common. We both live in Maine Both work with computers I was born in 66 you in 67 My name is also Tim The name of you boat is "The Other Woman", my wife considers our boat my "Other Woman" I agree with Ross and Greg. Do the job right. Live with it for another season and attack it in the fall. A friend with a C&C 27 just did this and it turned out great like Greg's. It is not that complicated to do really. I am currently doing a lot of upgrades on my boat. Luckily my deck it solid. Tim R.
Where do you keep your Ericson? I also have an Ericson. Looks like we have a lot in common. We both live in Maine Both work with computers I was born in 66 you in 67 My name is also Tim The name of you boat is "The Other Woman", my wife considers our boat my "Other Woman" I agree with Ross and Greg. Do the job right. Live with it for another season and attack it in the fall. A friend with a C&C 27 just did this and it turned out great like Greg's. It is not that complicated to do really. I am currently doing a lot of upgrades on my boat. Luckily my deck it solid. Tim R.
polyester resin?
A friend of mine did this procedure on an Eriksen and instead of polyester resin used penetrating epoxy. Can one of our experts comment on which would work better?
A friend of mine did this procedure on an Eriksen and instead of polyester resin used penetrating epoxy. Can one of our experts comment on which would work better?
Drill and fill is OK
It's a lot of work to tear up the deck and replace. Really hard to make it look good, too. Is the boat worth it? Heat and air will dry the deck after you drill your holes. Put a shop vac on one hole at a time. Heat UNDER the deck for a week or two to drive the water out. Make the holes bigger in the core with a bent nail in an electric drill. Use epoxy, not polyester. Run resin into the holes. Here in Canada we get a thin resin called S10, I think. Ater the thin resin has run into the holes and cracks, and hardened, fill with epoxy thickened with microballoons, sand and do your paint as you suggested. The fellow who said the deck is structural has a valid point, but lots of boats do fine with soft decks for years. Unless the deck is really flexibe and you're going off shore for extended periods, don't worry about this as a safety issue.
It's a lot of work to tear up the deck and replace. Really hard to make it look good, too. Is the boat worth it? Heat and air will dry the deck after you drill your holes. Put a shop vac on one hole at a time. Heat UNDER the deck for a week or two to drive the water out. Make the holes bigger in the core with a bent nail in an electric drill. Use epoxy, not polyester. Run resin into the holes. Here in Canada we get a thin resin called S10, I think. Ater the thin resin has run into the holes and cracks, and hardened, fill with epoxy thickened with microballoons, sand and do your paint as you suggested. The fellow who said the deck is structural has a valid point, but lots of boats do fine with soft decks for years. Unless the deck is really flexibe and you're going off shore for extended periods, don't worry about this as a safety issue.
I would like to see a deck that has been
repaired by the drill and fill method, core sampled. I can not picture how anyone can remove rotted wood from a core through a small drilled hole. I think at best you will get small columns of epoxy filled with rotted wood tieing the inner and outer skins together.
repaired by the drill and fill method, core sampled. I can not picture how anyone can remove rotted wood from a core through a small drilled hole. I think at best you will get small columns of epoxy filled with rotted wood tieing the inner and outer skins together.
try this
most decks are segregated into zones, each zone being an area with non-skid. Tap your deck every inch, and mark the bad spots. Then, figure out the area to be removed, and do it using a roto-zip tool. Peel off the top glass layer carefully. Now, repair the rotten area that was under the glass. Repair the glass area from underneath. Then put it back together like a sandwich. The only thing left to fiz is the roto-zip groove.
most decks are segregated into zones, each zone being an area with non-skid. Tap your deck every inch, and mark the bad spots. Then, figure out the area to be removed, and do it using a roto-zip tool. Peel off the top glass layer carefully. Now, repair the rotten area that was under the glass. Repair the glass area from underneath. Then put it back together like a sandwich. The only thing left to fiz is the roto-zip groove.
I'm Convinced!
You have all convinced me to do the job right. Instead of trying to do the injection method I will remove the top layer, replace core and epoxy back on. I will continue with the process of filling the existing grid and covering with Durabak or similar. Tim R, sounds like we are very similar! My boat is stored at Yankee Marina now but I keep it at Handy Boat for the sailing season. I am hoping to find a mooring or slip closer to Biddeford but not having a lot of luck. What is the name or your boat? I will keep an eye out for you this summer. Good Luck, Smooth Sailing and thanks for everyone's help!
You have all convinced me to do the job right. Instead of trying to do the injection method I will remove the top layer, replace core and epoxy back on. I will continue with the process of filling the existing grid and covering with Durabak or similar. Tim R, sounds like we are very similar! My boat is stored at Yankee Marina now but I keep it at Handy Boat for the sailing season. I am hoping to find a mooring or slip closer to Biddeford but not having a lot of luck. What is the name or your boat? I will keep an eye out for you this summer. Good Luck, Smooth Sailing and thanks for everyone's help!
Ross, small columns of epoxy/filler
surrounded by partially saturated core is exactly what you get, and it makes a satisfactory deck, which, in my experience, is good enough for a knowlegable marine surveyor who has been informed of how the repair was done. You can alway do more to a boat, but where do you draw the line? It is especially easy to take the position that every boat should be fixed to gold plateed rich folks standard when you're telling someone else to do the work and spend the money. Too many boat owners take on big projects that suck up sailing time, often years of it. Too often, the process sours them (or more often their spouse) on sailing, they sell the boat for peanuts because it's torn apart, and they give up the idea of sailing.
surrounded by partially saturated core is exactly what you get, and it makes a satisfactory deck, which, in my experience, is good enough for a knowlegable marine surveyor who has been informed of how the repair was done. You can alway do more to a boat, but where do you draw the line? It is especially easy to take the position that every boat should be fixed to gold plateed rich folks standard when you're telling someone else to do the work and spend the money. Too many boat owners take on big projects that suck up sailing time, often years of it. Too often, the process sours them (or more often their spouse) on sailing, they sell the boat for peanuts because it's torn apart, and they give up the idea of sailing.
Biddeford
The only marina I know of in the Biddeford area is Marstons marina which is technically in Saco about halfway down the Saco River. There is also the Saco Yacht Club and the Biddeford Pool yacht club. Both towns have mooring areas along the river which is where I would like to keep my boat; waiting lists though. My new plan. - Sound out and mark the areas that are soft. 3 areas, in the bow, port deck and a cockpit seat. - Cut out top layer and remove. I would make my cuts within the existing raised grid of non skid. This would then be covered by the new fairing and non skid paint. - Remove/Chisel out the rotten core. - Replace core with one of the newer high tech materials. - Epoxy the old top layer back on. - Using Epoxy resin with a fairing filler fill the existing non skid grid pattern to make it flat and fill in all the valleys. - Fair and smooth this new finish. - Paint these areas with Durabak or Rhino Liner or some similar non skid paint. I would use a gray or similar neutral color.
The only marina I know of in the Biddeford area is Marstons marina which is technically in Saco about halfway down the Saco River. There is also the Saco Yacht Club and the Biddeford Pool yacht club. Both towns have mooring areas along the river which is where I would like to keep my boat; waiting lists though. My new plan. - Sound out and mark the areas that are soft. 3 areas, in the bow, port deck and a cockpit seat. - Cut out top layer and remove. I would make my cuts within the existing raised grid of non skid. This would then be covered by the new fairing and non skid paint. - Remove/Chisel out the rotten core. - Replace core with one of the newer high tech materials. - Epoxy the old top layer back on. - Using Epoxy resin with a fairing filler fill the existing non skid grid pattern to make it flat and fill in all the valleys. - Fair and smooth this new finish. - Paint these areas with Durabak or Rhino Liner or some similar non skid paint. I would use a gray or similar neutral color.
Fred, I expect that if the distribution of these
epoxy columns was carefully planned so as to avoid continous unsupported spans it would work very well. One of my concerns would be the complete imposibility of surface preparation. That is not a very large concern as I have often dropped spills onto areas that would not be thought of as ideal for bonding and had to remove the cured spill with a grinder.
epoxy columns was carefully planned so as to avoid continous unsupported spans it would work very well. One of my concerns would be the complete imposibility of surface preparation. That is not a very large concern as I have often dropped spills onto areas that would not be thought of as ideal for bonding and had to remove the cured spill with a grinder.
Nida Core
I used a product called nidacore instead of balsa. It is a plastic honeycomb material. On my boat, it was impossible to remove the top layer complete. If you are not looking to save the non skid pattern, I would suggest you just rip the entire thing apart and then glass and fair over the new core. The durabak people are very friendly...I was considering going this route, however ended up going with the original non skid. I have a bunch of photos in the archives of the entire process. Any questions feel free to ask Good luck Greg
I used a product called nidacore instead of balsa. It is a plastic honeycomb material. On my boat, it was impossible to remove the top layer complete. If you are not looking to save the non skid pattern, I would suggest you just rip the entire thing apart and then glass and fair over the new core. The durabak people are very friendly...I was considering going this route, however ended up going with the original non skid. I have a bunch of photos in the archives of the entire process. Any questions feel free to ask Good luck Greg
Ross, remember I suggested opening up the hole
between deck and inside glass with a bent nail on a drill? That gives a chance for the thickened resin to be gigger than the hole, and there's a fair bit of surface area. Epoxy sticks pretty well to anything porous, like rotten core. A half inch hole will open up to 2 inches inside. Thats a pretty good plug. Sometimes you have to fill twice, or squirt resin in with a syringe to fill a hole all the way. They don't all get filled perfectly, but every hole becomes a strong connection/support. Careful planning of holes/columns is just look at the span and do a couple extra if you're worried. 1/2 inch holes are minimium. Maybe 3/4 or 1" in some spots. Then you can really pour the thinned resin, and later the thickened resin out of a small mixing cup. The thing I like about this system is that it goes pretty quick. Drill holes, open up with bent nail, dry as much as possible. Thin resin, thick resin, fill as needed. Grind smooth, paint. I have done this myself on a Catalina 27, and seen it done several times, most recently on an O'Day 32 by one of the local (well qualified) professionals. It makes a deck you can jump on, just like the part where the core is good.
between deck and inside glass with a bent nail on a drill? That gives a chance for the thickened resin to be gigger than the hole, and there's a fair bit of surface area. Epoxy sticks pretty well to anything porous, like rotten core. A half inch hole will open up to 2 inches inside. Thats a pretty good plug. Sometimes you have to fill twice, or squirt resin in with a syringe to fill a hole all the way. They don't all get filled perfectly, but every hole becomes a strong connection/support. Careful planning of holes/columns is just look at the span and do a couple extra if you're worried. 1/2 inch holes are minimium. Maybe 3/4 or 1" in some spots. Then you can really pour the thinned resin, and later the thickened resin out of a small mixing cup. The thing I like about this system is that it goes pretty quick. Drill holes, open up with bent nail, dry as much as possible. Thin resin, thick resin, fill as needed. Grind smooth, paint. I have done this myself on a Catalina 27, and seen it done several times, most recently on an O'Day 32 by one of the local (well qualified) professionals. It makes a deck you can jump on, just like the part where the core is good.
Fred when I was dealing with my ballast
internal lead in the keel. I would drill through the side of the keel in several places and inject filled resin into the lowest hole until it started out of the next holes and plug those in turn. I used new caulking tubes so that I could jam the spout into the holes and apply some real pressure. I have also repaired termite damage in this same manner using filled epoxy. I mix the epoxy in a zipper bag, add the filler and mix again, snip off a corner and fill the caulking tube and insert the plastic plunger cut the spout and get to work. You can apply a lot of pressure this way.
internal lead in the keel. I would drill through the side of the keel in several places and inject filled resin into the lowest hole until it started out of the next holes and plug those in turn. I used new caulking tubes so that I could jam the spout into the holes and apply some real pressure. I have also repaired termite damage in this same manner using filled epoxy. I mix the epoxy in a zipper bag, add the filler and mix again, snip off a corner and fill the caulking tube and insert the plastic plunger cut the spout and get to work. You can apply a lot of pressure this way.
Greg is right, re-core
My advice is sail the darn boat until you fall through (which will never happen). The boat will out live you!
My advice is sail the darn boat until you fall through (which will never happen). The boat will out live you!
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