Splicing Braided and High Modulus line

C

chrisyse

.
Apr 7, 2011
39
1989 catalina 27 Pearson 1987 milford
I'm considerng buying a splicing wand from Brion Toss riggers ($75) vs splice kit from West marine ($30). Which works better? Any experience. I'm need to add two penants with eye's to top and bottom of my jib. 4 eye loops. I plan to use low stretch NE Ropes VPC 3/8".

Thanks
 
Les

Les

.
May 8, 2004
375
Hunter 27 Bellingham, WA
I think I've written about my splicing once before. I too used Brion Toss's equipment although your cost of $75 and $30 is a little bit under what it cost me.

I had to do an end to end spicing with line specifically for the main roller furling gear on my H380. I don't remember the costs of the materials exactly but I'll give a close enough price to give you the idea. I first bought replacement line for the splicing ($60), Brion Toss' splicing wand ($55), and a Brion Toss video tape ($19.95) which included ALL his instructions on ALL of his spices. I also bought his book to take the the boat (another $19.95).

Down to the boat, I reroved the new line, got both ends where I could work on them, opened the book and started. Measuring and pulling out the insides were not too bad and I was able to mark essential places on both the inner and the outer line. Then I was to take the wand, insert one line or the other and push it through until it came out at a specific place. Except it would not push through. I reread the book page. Tried again and BROKE the wand.

Okay, back to West Marine and buy another wand ($55) and back home to watch the video once more. But in the fast re-wind I jammed the video in the tape player. I took video out of the player and carefully and slowly rewind the tape. Then I inserted the tape once again and tried to find the section of end to end splicing. Again the tape jammed, this time doing damage to the tape. Took it out of the machine, took machine apart to clean, went back to West marine and bought another new tape ($19.95) and on the way home bought another new tape recorder ($160) just in case.

Back on board I again open the book, took the new wand and started to place one line inside the other. After several tried, I once again broke the second wand. WTH! I think I mentioned Brion Toss' parents, Hunter's lack of quality control, West Marine in general, etc as I calmed down.

Back to the house I once again, perhaps my eighth time to watch Brion do the splice. I mean I really watch it....with intensity. Ah-ha, you don't push the one line into the other, you PULL it through. Well, damn.

On the way back to the boat I stopped by the electronics store and bought a small television set with tape player inside (saw it when I bought the new tape player for home) that was 12 volt. I would now watch as I did the splice.This time it worked! And I finally got my end to end splice done.

So let's see here. Two wands ($55 apiece $110), one book ($19.95) two tapes ($19.95 each or let's just say $40 bucks), the new line ($60) one VCR tape player/recorder ($160) and one 12 volt TV/player ($200). I will admit that after I told Brion this story, he offered and repaired both of the wands for free which are now enshrined on my new boat. Probably will never get used again. It would be cheaper to get a professional to do then the $600 (tax and gas) I paid for the first spice.

I do a lot of dumb things but this one ranks right up in the top ten. Best of luck to you.
 
M

maxrdr

.
Dec 19, 2011
19
Hunter 310 Lake Oolagah, Oolagah, OK
chrisyse said:
I'm considerng buying a splicing wand from Brion Toss riggers ($75) vs splice kit from West marine ($30). Which works better? Any experience. I'm need to add two penants with eye's to top and bottom of my jib. 4 eye loops. I plan to use low stretch NE Ropes VPC 3/8".

Thanks
Click to expand
I teach splicing using the West Marine Fid kits from Samson and their cost today is closer to $50 before tax and a quick check on the Wand pricing from Amazon is $65 for the basic tool. Unless you are really into splicing your own future needs, I would suggest you ask West Marine folks who is doing their splicing and cost per splice, since a bad splice on your jib pennant might lead to worse problems and more expense. If you were in Oklahoma, I would be glad to teach you how to use the Samson fid kit.
 
Rick D

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Huh!

Ron20324 said:
There's always gun-cleaning rods.
Click to expand
I have one on the boat for clearing thru-hulls. Never thought about it. I have to try that! I have plenty of old fids around, but i tend to use and old fiberglass rod piece I have.
 
Indysailor

Indysailor

.
Oct 10, 2009
1,035
Catalina 27 3657 Lake Monroe
I feel for you Les! It was an end for end splice for an old continuous line furler that taught me how much easier it is to pull than push. Then I noticed when researching some other splices that a lot of arborists are into splicing and many of them make their own fids out of heavy gauge wire and tape. My first wire fid was made from a hanger and I've made a few more since then.
 
woodster

woodster

.
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Indysailor said:
I feel for you Les! It was an end for end splice for an old continuous line furler that taught me how much easier it is to pull than push. Then I noticed when researching some other splices that a lot of arborists are into splicing and many of them make their own fids out of heavy gauge wire and tape. My first wire fid was made from a hanger and I've made a few more since then.
Click to expand
go get your self a 1/8 or 5/32 7018 flux coated welding rod from a welder some where and knock off all the flux and make it out of that it will be strong and not bend easy......but it will rust as it is farrous metal but you can store it in and oil rag and i will be fine...

regards

woody
 
woodster

woodster

.
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Les said:
I think I've written about my splicing once before. I too used Brion Toss's equipment although your cost of $75 and $30 is a little bit under what it cost me.

I had to do an end to end spicing with line specifically for the main roller furling gear on my H380. I don't remember the costs of the materials exactly but I'll give a close enough price to give you the idea. I first bought replacement line for the splicing ($60), Brion Toss' splicing wand ($55), and a Brion Toss video tape ($19.95) which included ALL his instructions on ALL of his spices. I also bought his book to take the the boat (another $19.95).

Down to the boat, I reroved the new line, got both ends where I could work on them, opened the book and started. Measuring and pulling out the insides were not too bad and I was able to mark essential places on both the inner and the outer line. Then I was to take the wand, insert one line or the other and push it through until it came out at a specific place. Except it would not push through. I reread the book page. Tried again and BROKE the wand.

Okay, back to West Marine and buy another wand ($55) and back home to watch the video once more. But in the fast re-wind I jammed the video in the tape player. I took video out of the player and carefully and slowly rewind the tape. Then I inserted the tape once again and tried to find the section of end to end splicing. Again the tape jammed, this time doing damage to the tape. Took it out of the machine, took machine apart to clean, went back to West marine and bought another new tape ($19.95) and on the way home bought another new tape recorder ($160) just in case.

Back on board I again open the book, took the new wand and started to place one line inside the other. After several tried, I once again broke the second wand. WTH! I think I mentioned Brion Toss' parents, Hunter's lack of quality control, West Marine in general, etc as I calmed down.

Back to the house I once again, perhaps my eighth time to watch Brion do the splice. I mean I really watch it....with intensity. Ah-ha, you don't push the one line into the other, you PULL it through. Well, damn.

On the way back to the boat I stopped by the electronics store and bought a small television set with tape player inside (saw it when I bought the new tape player for home) that was 12 volt. I would now watch as I did the splice.This time it worked! And I finally got my end to end splice done.

So let's see here. Two wands ($55 apiece $110), one book ($19.95) two tapes ($19.95 each or let's just say $40 bucks), the new line ($60) one VCR tape player/recorder ($160) and one 12 volt TV/player ($200). I will admit that after I told Brion this story, he offered and repaired both of the wands for free which are now enshrined on my new boat. Probably will never get used again. It would be cheaper to get a professional to do then the $600 (tax and gas) I paid for the first spice.

I do a lot of dumb things but this one ranks right up in the top ten. Best of luck to you.
Click to expand
man thats a good story but i do like your additude....in for a penny in for a pound.....you are not alone i cut a board three times one day and it was still to short:eek:...

regards

woody
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

.
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I have the WM kit and have done numerous splices with them. The instructions that came with the kit are pretty easy to grasp. The first one was a pretty steep learning curve but I only wasted about 3 ft of line.
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

.
Jan 4, 2006
7,154
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Probably be Far Cheaper ................

Les said:
It would be cheaper to get a professional to do then the $600 (tax and gas) I paid for the first spice.
Click to expand
..................... to get a high priced Philadelphia lawyer to do the splice for you :D.
 
Joe

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You might consider making wire pendants and save yourself some frustration when to trying to splice small diameter rope. You can make them right at the West Marine store on the workbench in the sailing hardware department. Everything you need is there, including the nico press tool that makes for a very quick build... I have a number of pendants in various sizes .... all with nico pressed eyes on each end.. that can be used for multiple applications.

It is far easier to splice single braid than double braid and the end for end splice is pretty easy to build. In any event, if you're making an end for end splice in double braid you'll only need a singe fid to fit the rope..... less than $10.00 http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...g&matchtype=&gclid=CK3g_pjtw7wCFUiGfgod-xcA-w

Here's the splicing instructions for double braid line: http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C1_End for End_AUG2012_WEB.pdf

If you go with single braid... the fid is really easy to manipulate, due to the hollow nature of the line.... so you don't really need a pricey tool.... a simple fid, exacto knife, needle and whipping twine for the lock stitches... you're good. Here's the standard "bury" splice: http://www.neropes.com/Splicing Guide Individual Splices/12_Strand_Single_Braid_End_For_End_Bury.pdf

And the very cool "brummel" splice: http://www.neropes.com/Splicing Gui..._Strand_Single_Braid_End_For_End_Brummell.pdf
 
Indysailor

Indysailor

.
Oct 10, 2009
1,035
Catalina 27 3657 Lake Monroe
Another option is to use amsteel, dyneema, spectra. The stuff is very easy to splice.
 
Chris Patterson

Chris Patterson

.
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Les, we've somehow gotta be cosmically related. That is the directions that ought to be included in the kits. Very good Sir.

Woody's idea on the welding rods are good. You can get the same rod in stainless though.. A 308-16 1/8" will last forever.
 
Indysailor

Indysailor

.
Oct 10, 2009
1,035
Catalina 27 3657 Lake Monroe
How come everything we sailors do has to come down to stainless? :)
I was at a scrap yard and pulled a long strand of thick, steel wire out from under an old refrigerator. That's my fid.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

.
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Now that I think about it, I lost a number of radio antennas off my cars over the years.... only a "broken" stub remained.
 
jibes138

jibes138

.
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
DO NOT BUY any of these commercial splicing snake oil splicing tools. I have posted my Magic Splicing Tool that is free of charge and works far better than any other tool I have ever tried. You make it out of a coat hanger for larger line or you can use twisted safety wire or other small diameter wire for small diameter line. If you do a search on here you should get a picture and instructions. I repeat don't waste your money. Since I threw this out there for free I have no financial interest in this recommendation. I have used this for dozens of splices and it works great. Enjoy
 
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