Spinnaker style question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
I am plnning on outfitting my P42 with a spinnaker and need to decide which spinnaker style to purchase. Ilike the looks of the furlers as opposed to the ATN socks. With that as a basis of thought, which is best spinnaker for downwind cruising? I won't be racing but downwind cruising will be in my future. so, gennaker, asym-spinnaker, spinnaker pole with sym spinnaker. What is the opinion out there? Thanks yet again, Sandy
 
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
For me, I would go with an asymtric spi. A traditional spinaker will do better than a asymetric dead downwind but that does not make up for having to deal with the pole (setup, gybes and storage).

An asymmetric will do very well from a beam reach down to a broad reach. On anything approaching a run the main will tend to shadow it but that's easily addressed by dropping the main.

Cheers

Mat
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
For me, I would go with an asymtric spi. A traditional spinaker will do better than a asymetric dead downwind but that does not make up for having to deal with the pole (setup, gybes and storage).

An asymmetric will do very well from a beam reach down to a broad reach. On anything approaching a run the main will tend to shadow it but that's easily addressed by dropping the main.

Cheers

Mat
Thanks Mat, that is kind of my sentiment as well. And since a dead run is never a very fun point of sailing an asym spi sounds good. What is meant by "Code 0"? I am not quite sure of that terminology...
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,792
- -- -Bayfield
Code 0 The code 0 asymmetric is a tight reaching sail, the most upwind capable of the asymmetrics. The luff is as straight as possible, and the sail is flatter than other spinnakers. Due to the flatness of the code 0, it is usually made with a wire luff for strength, and of a heavier, less stretchy fabric than normal for a spinnaker. Due to the tight luff and flat cut, the code 0 can be fitted for roller furling.
Code 1 The code 1 is a light air reaching sail, where the apparent wind angles at low speeds has a significant effect to create angles of less than 90 degrees.
Code 2 The code 2 is a medium air running sail, used for apparent wind angles over 90 degrees.
Code 3 The code 3 is a medium air reaching sail, used for apparent wind angles near 90 degrees.
Code 4 The code 4 is a heavy air running sail, used in the heaviest winds normally expected.
Code 5 The code 5 is a heavy air reaching sail, used in the heaviest winds normally expected.
Code 6 The code 6 is a storm sail, for running in storm conditions.
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,792
- -- -Bayfield
The most inexpensive set up would be the asymmetric spinnaker because it does not need the gear that the regular spinnaker requires. It also takes fewer crew to deploy, trim and haul it down. It is not a great dead downwind sail, but you can carry it further to weather than a symmetrical kite. The regular spinnaker that is symmetrical comes in various designs and weights as well, but for starters you need to have the following gear installed: Halyard, 2 sheets (the one attached to the pole end is called the after guy), spinnaker pole, track on the mast with car for the pole, spinnaker pole topping lift, pole downhaul and possibly tweakers or twing lines for choking down the sheet and after guy. If you have a large boat, which I see you do, then you probably will want to dip gybe the pole instead of end for ending it, which means you have to have a car on the mast track that can be raised and lowered with a control line. Then lazy sheets are useful (two sets of sheets to the two corners of the sail). It is more crew hungry as well. You need to have a bow man to do the pole work on a gybe, a mast man to adjust the car on the mast, and at least one trimmer and one person to raise and lower the halyard.
With an asymmetrical spinnaker, you have a halyard, a tack line and two sheets. The halyard is forward of the forestay like a regular spinnaker and you gybe the sail around the front of the forestay like you do a genoa (which is inside the foretriangle). You adjust the luff of the sail with the use of the halyard and/or the tack line (which is a line that goes through a block attached near the stem head fitting) and runs aft to the cockpit where it can be adjusted and cleated off. When sailing closer to the wind, you need to make the luff straighter and as you fall off the wind, you open up the luff to give the sail more belly when sailing more down wind. You trim accordingly just on the edge of luffing feeling good pressure in the sail. Performance boats have a retractable sprit which pushes the tack of the asymmetrical kite outboard so that the mainsail does not blanket it so much. There are after market retractable sprits available through Selden spars that you can install to do the same thing.
One person added that if the main is blocking the spinnaker too much, then drop the main. Not a good idea unless the wind is light. The main can be useful because it can block the wind. If you have ever raised a spinnaker in heavier air with out a main, you are in for a surprise. It will catch the wind and tear the lines out of your hands. The mainsail is very helpful to keep things under control. Two or three people can raise, trim and lower an asymmetrical spinnaker (also called a Gennaker by North Sails, or a cruising spinnaker as a general term).
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
The most inexpensive set up would be the asymmetric spinnaker because it does not need the gear that the regular spinnaker requires. It also takes fewer crew to deploy, trim and haul it down. It is not a great dead downwind sail, but you can carry it further to weather than a symmetrical kite. The regular spinnaker that is symmetrical comes in various designs and weights as well, but for starters you need to have the following gear installed: Halyard, 2 sheets (the one attached to the pole end is called the after guy), spinnaker pole, track on the mast with car for the pole, spinnaker pole topping lift, pole downhaul and possibly tweakers or twing lines for choking down the sheet and after guy. If you have a large boat, which I see you do, then you probably will want to dip gybe the pole instead of end for ending it, which means you have to have a car on the mast track that can be raised and lowered with a control line. Then lazy sheets are useful (two sets of sheets to the two corners of the sail). It is more crew hungry as well. You need to have a bow man to do the pole work on a gybe, a mast man to adjust the car on the mast, and at least one trimmer and one person to raise and lower the halyard.
With an asymmetrical spinnaker, you have a halyard, a tack line and two sheets. The halyard is forward of the forestay like a regular spinnaker and you gybe the sail around the front of the forestay like you do a genoa (which is inside the foretriangle). You adjust the luff of the sail with the use of the halyard and/or the tack line (which is a line that goes through a block attached near the stem head fitting) and runs aft to the cockpit where it can be adjusted and cleated off. When sailing closer to the wind, you need to make the luff straighter and as you fall off the wind, you open up the luff to give the sail more belly when sailing more down wind. You trim accordingly just on the edge of luffing feeling good pressure in the sail. Performance boats have a retractable sprit which pushes the tack of the asymmetrical kite outboard so that the mainsail does not blanket it so much. There are after market retractable sprits available through Selden spars that you can install to do the same thing.
One person added that if the main is blocking the spinnaker too much, then drop the main. Not a good idea unless the wind is light. The main can be useful because it can block the wind. If you have ever raised a spinnaker in heavier air with out a main, you are in for a surprise. It will catch the wind and tear the lines out of your hands. The mainsail is very helpful to keep things under control. Two or three people can raise, trim and lower an asymmetrical spinnaker (also called a Gennaker by North Sails, or a cruising spinnaker as a general term).
Man thanks Bill! I need to sign up for your class because this ismost helpful!!So essentially an asym spinnaker is best for my needs but not necessarily a Code 0 since that ismore of a reaching spinnaker. Great info! thanks again. Sandy
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
There is a 40.5 doing a pacific crossing (Knotty Lady). They had good success with a high-cut 110, code zero on a continuous line furler off the anchor bale and a main sail with a deep first reef and a second reef where the third would have gone. It worked well for them at half the crossing to Australia at drifting to 40 knots.
 
Oct 24, 2011
278
Hunter Passage 450 Lake Lanier, GA
The most inexpensive set up would be the asymmetric spinnaker because it does not need the gear that the regular spinnaker requires. It also takes fewer crew to deploy, trim and haul it down. It is not a great dead downwind sail, but you can carry it further to weather than a symmetrical kite. The regular spinnaker that is symmetrical comes in various designs and weights as well, but for starters you need to have the following gear installed: Halyard, 2 sheets (the one attached to the pole end is called the after guy), spinnaker pole, track on the mast with car for the pole, spinnaker pole topping lift, pole downhaul and possibly tweakers or twing lines for choking down the sheet and after guy. If you have a large boat, which I see you do, then you probably will want to dip gybe the pole instead of end for ending it, which means you have to have a car on the mast track that can be raised and lowered with a control line. Then lazy sheets are useful (two sets of sheets to the two corners of the sail). It is more crew hungry as well. You need to have a bow man to do the pole work on a gybe, a mast man to adjust the car on the mast, and at least one trimmer and one person to raise and lower the halyard.
With an asymmetrical spinnaker, you have a halyard, a tack line and two sheets. The halyard is forward of the forestay like a regular spinnaker and you gybe the sail around the front of the forestay like you do a genoa (which is inside the foretriangle). You adjust the luff of the sail with the use of the halyard and/or the tack line (which is a line that goes through a block attached near the stem head fitting) and runs aft to the cockpit where it can be adjusted and cleated off. When sailing closer to the wind, you need to make the luff straighter and as you fall off the wind, you open up the luff to give the sail more belly when sailing more down wind. You trim accordingly just on the edge of luffing feeling good pressure in the sail. Performance boats have a retractable sprit which pushes the tack of the asymmetrical kite outboard so that the mainsail does not blanket it so much. There are after market retractable sprits available through Selden spars that you can install to do the same thing.
One person added that if the main is blocking the spinnaker too much, then drop the main. Not a good idea unless the wind is light. The main can be useful because it can block the wind. If you have ever raised a spinnaker in heavier air with out a main, you are in for a surprise. It will catch the wind and tear the lines out of your hands. The mainsail is very helpful to keep things under control. Two or three people can raise, trim and lower an asymmetrical spinnaker (also called a Gennaker by North Sails, or a cruising spinnaker as a general term).
Thanks for the info to everyone on this thread. I have a Doyle UPS sail on a roller furler which we took out for the second time last weekend since purchasing the boat. You can have a look at it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIheWcfuhC4
From what I have read here, I probably should had the luff out a bit more.
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Thanks for the info to everyone on this thread. I have a Doyle UPS sail on a roller furler which we took out for the second time last weekend since purchasing the boat. You can have a look at it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIheWcfuhC4
From what I have read here, I probably should had the luff out a bit more.
Great video "Bowed", thanks for that. but it looked like you were perhaps on a low close reach or beam reach so I am wondering why the use of the spi instead of the jib?? Wind conditions? Sandy
 
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
Regarding sailing with the spi only, i.e. dropping the main to keep the spi full:

Absolutely he main is a great help in controlling the spinnaker especially if you do not have a sock or furler. It comes down to your level of experience an thus your level of comfort with the prevailing conditions., i.e. a judgement call. As you gain experience with the spinnaker, you will become more able to predict it's effect on the boat and your ability to (easily) control it given the conditions at hand. Baby steps are a good thing.

Last year, on our new to us boat, we were out on Lake Huron an had only the spinnaker up. As the day went on, the wind kept building and the sailing got better and better. At one point, I decided to douse the sail despite the fact that we had no boat control issues but I did not want the first douse to turn into something spectacular. As it turns out, the sock worked much better than I thought and the sail came down easily. Next time I will likely wait a little longer.

Play and never stop learning

Matt
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Regarding sailing with the spi only, i.e. dropping the main to keep the spi full:

Absolutely he main is a great help in controlling the spinnaker especially if you do not have a sock or furler. It comes down to your level of experience an thus your level of comfort with the prevailing conditions., i.e. a judgement call. As you gain experience with the spinnaker, you will become more able to predict it's effect on the boat and your ability to (easily) control it given the conditions at hand. Baby steps are a good thing.

Last year, on our new to us boat, we were out on Lake Huron an had only the spinnaker up. As the day went on, the wind kept building and the sailing got better and better. At one point, I decided to douse the sail despite the fact that we had no boat control issues but I did not want the first douse to turn into something spectacular. As it turns out, the sock worked much better than I thought and the sail came down easily. Next time I will likely wait a little longer.

Play and never stop learning

Matt
Perfect because I can learn from you guys and then play more easily! So Matt, you use a sock (ATN?) instead of furler? I am wavering, sock and less $ or furler and a little more $. Sock with spi that is maybe more downwind sail vs furler with more of a reaching spi. Hmmm? Sandy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.