Spinnaker graphic cost

[25yearslater]

Ok here's the question for those willing to answer. I will be purchasing an asymetrical cruising spinnaker as part of my recycling project. What I would like to know is some of the cost experience others have had with the application of graphics and the techniques they were applied with. The sailmakers I have spoken with were noncommital without exact size etc.
And yes a Google search revealed nothing, thanks.

 

[Ted]

How large is your graphic? How many colors? Inlaid material or screened? It's a common practice so if your sailmaker is non committal try another one. I had a four color graphic screened on a spinnaker for $300 for a 4' x 6' graphic size. The work was done by a custom silk screen shop not a sailmaker.

 

[25yearslater]

Thanks Ted. That is encouraging to say the least. I'm looking at a frog the boss likes and the prices were all over the place up to 2000 to 3000 dollars for near that size. The design is fairly straight forward 2 colors.

 

[31seahorse]

Hello 25yearslater,

If the frog isn't Kermit, I'd be concerned about warts!

Phil

 

[Kermit]

If the frog isn't Kermit, I'd be concerned about warts!
Phil

No warts here!

 

[Kermit]

Check the "A Few Boating Images" album in my profile and see what FX Sails did for me. They charged an additional $300 over the cost shown on the website. The tree and moon are inlaid. Looks great from both sides. Go to www.fxsails.com. Call Bill and tell him the guy with the South Carolina state flag spinnaker sent you.

 

[Ted]

You might try this link. No affiliation.
http://www.sailing-graphics.com/index.html

 

[25yearslater]

Thanks folks. Here are a couple of images I'm mulling over. I will definately give FX Sails a call. While the boss kissed the frog I didn't turn into a prince that was for sure. At least she didn't get warts though.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Whatever you do, don't allow the sailmaker to cut out the structural fabric of the sail and use the shape of the graphic itself as structural fabric in its place. In other words, if your graphic were a heart, the sailmaker should not cut out a heart-shaped piece of the sail and sew in a heart-shaped piece of some other color. Imagine what this would do to the stitching patterns and layout of the seams of the sail, which sailmakers and yacht designers spend an awful amount of time trying to perfect.

Any sail graphic should be a lightweight applique, attached with adhesive and then sewn over top of the existing and otherwise serviceable sail. This is for the strength, performance, maintenance and longevity of the sail above all else.

 

[25yearslater]

Thank you Diana. From what I have gathered the inlaid image was also one of the most expensive methods not to mention the sail construction being compromised. The applique and silk screen methods Ted mentioned seem the most cost effective and least performance/durability damaging methods. The ink airbrush dyes seem to have a problem with the inks bleeding which concerned me. Coupled with the cost to have the sailmaker's artist 'paint' it, the image price was higher than the sail cost. This definately gives me some info from which to proceed.

 

[Kermit]

Whatever you do, don't allow the sailmaker to cut out the structural fabric of the sail and use the shape of the graphic itself as structural fabric in its place. In other words, if your graphic were a heart, the sailmaker should not cut out a heart-shaped piece of the sail and sew in a heart-shaped piece of some other color. Imagine what this would do to the stitching patterns and layout of the seams of the sail, which sailmakers and yacht designers spend an awful amount of time trying to perfect.

Any sail graphic should be a lightweight applique, attached with adhesive and then sewn over top of the existing and otherwise serviceable sail. This is for the strength, performance, maintenance and longevity of the sail above all else.

That is something I did not research when looking into having my spinnaker made. I checked the graphic closely yesterday. The blue sail was definitely cut for the white graphic. Never once occurred to me to even consider if that should be a concern.

That being said, I'm very happy with my spinnaker. I don't race and have no desire to fly it in heavy weather. I guess time will tell if it will hold up.

We hoisted it at the dock at Lake Wateree State Park this past Saturday trying to figure out what the heck I did wrong when trying to fly it on the way to the park. I felt like I had never flown a spinnaker before. Just couldn't get it rigged right for anything. I did get it figured out at the dock.

 

[Jackdaw]

Kermit,

This cut-in technique can be O.K. IF the design is small and in the non-radial panels (middle) of the spinnaker. Your design is HUGE and very close to the corners where the panels are under much more load. I'm with DoB on this one.

PS - But is IS awesome looking!

 

[RichH]

Slashing out the main panels and re inserting with graphics is easy and structurally sound, IF you stay away from the 'cross, mid-cord, etc. seams' that divide the spinn top and foot in the middle although if you do need to apply in that area then you must reinforce the main horizontal seam with an extra wide triple stitching, etc. A spinnaker concentrates almost all its stresses in the 'corners' so just stay away from the 'corners' when designing 'graphics'.

Painting is just as easy .... just do it BEFORE the panels go together. An 'insert graphic' wont eventually flake off as when 'paint' ages, and cause 'shape and flexibility' problems in the spinnaker cloth and will have the essentially same life-span of the other spinnaker cloth.

A spinnaker is a VERY easy sail to make DIY from scratch (especially with loft pre-cut panels, etc.) and that allows free reign for the application of graphics, even 'slash and fill' graphics.
The attached pic shows a graphic applied (slashed and cut then inserted) spinn.
The loft laser-cut the panels. I projected the image onto the side of a barn with the unsewn panels individually 'affixed' to the barn and then 'hand transferred' the image - panel by panel - and then overlaid the graphics material (same as the base ripstop and in the exact same fabric weft/warp orientation of the panel (important if you dont want 'stress puckers' or 'girts'), projected the panels over the projected graphic and outlined the panels ... and then added seaming allowances.
Each *individual* panel was then cut to accept the 'graphic inserts', the graphic 'insert' was added, and sewn to the base panel. Seaming of the graphics to the panels was done with stitching over 'pre-glued' (PECO double sided spinnaker seam tape ... sometimes used in small spinnakers instead of stitching) - I "PECO tape" all seams before stitching on all my sailmaking. Careful sail panel sewing insured that all the graphics were in line with the 'next' panel to be sewn. The 'details' were simply black/yellow 'ripstop' that was sewn to the base panels as an 'applique' after the sail was assembled/sewn. There are NO wrinkles, mismatches, creases from panel to graphic misalignment, etc. Time for the graphic application and set up time - about ~25 hours of extra sail making.

BTW ... that 'eagle' is approx 24+ft 'across'. and is 'glowingly translucent' in the sunlight because its 0.75oz. 'ripstop'. The sail is 170%LP at approx. 1775 sq. ft.

 

[Kermit]

...that 'eagle' is approx 24+ft 'across'. and is 'glowingly translucent' in the sunlight because its 0.75oz. 'ripstop'...

And what an incredibly cool eagle it is! I always admired it in your avatar. I'm glad you posted it big for us to see.

I have checked the seams on mine. They seem to be pretty strong. I absolutely PROMISE to let y'all (and FX Sails) know if it ever goes bad.

 

[25yearslater]

Thanks Rich. You were one of the folks I was hoping would answer my call. That eagle is fantastic. Right now I have contacted Doyle to discuss graphics but more importantly the basic spinnaker. With SBO offering a good price on Oday sails I can't pass it up. I'm wondering about post construction applied graphics as I narrow things down. You're method seems quite promising as to the cut and stitch inlay. I'm a bit chicken when it comes to chopping into a new spinnaker but having it done by a pro after market has a certain appeal. The silk screen method also seems a plausible alternative as far as aftermarket graphics go. Again thanks everybody. Now if the boss would change her mind about the frog.

 

[Kermit]

Now if the boss would change her mind about the frog.

Watcha got against frogs???????

 

[25yearslater]

Nothin, nothin at all. I like fluffy bunnies though.

 

[RichH]

Thanks Rich. You were one of the folks I was hoping would answer my call. That eagle is fantastic. Right now I have contacted Doyle to discuss graphics but more importantly the basic spinnaker. With SBO offering a good price on Oday sails I can't pass it up. I'm wondering about post construction applied graphics as I narrow things down. You're method seems quite promising as to the cut and stitch inlay. I'm a bit chicken when it comes to chopping into a new spinnaker but having it done by a pro after market has a certain appeal. The silk screen method also seems a plausible alternative as far as aftermarket graphics go. Again thanks everybody. Now if the boss would change her mind about the frog.

Painting or screening a graphic is easy but the choice of such has to be carefully selected because nylon fiber does not dye or accept 'paint' very well ... and when the nylon fabric becomes wet it enhances 'bleeding' into the non-painted areas. Suggest that the screening, etc. be done to BOTH sides of the sail ... or one side will be OK and the other side will be a 'reverse shadow'.

Also suggest that you get some ripstop of the same color of your spinn, and have whoever you choose to apply the painted/screened graphic apply a small 'test' onto the small panel submitted for the test. THEN, hang the finished trial panel outside in direct sun for a few WEEKS .... to verify color fastness (expect the uncoated sample ripstop to be severely UV burned/destroyed/weakened by sunlight in that time it takes to verify the colorfastness, etc.)

good luck.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Yes, I am not fond of printed artwork for exterior products like sails, as we all know what happens to printed flags. I would say to choose colors carefully so as not to have them cancel each other out (red on blue, for example).

My own issue is that the preferred logo for Diana is white on royal blue. I may choose to reverse this and make it a blue angel on white just to make use of the applique method.