This summer we used our spinnaker with a full crew and was wondering how I would take town the chute (while single handed with autohelm) in heavy air.
Thanks
Thanks
Spinnaker - A Tiger By The Tail
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Get a spinnaker sock, it is worth every penny. They should have them discounted at the annapolis boat show, if you are going....
Several ways to do this, all involve having the terminal end of the spinn halyard having a stopper knot and the spinn terminated to a cleat, etc. ... so it doesnt go overboard or 'up the mast'
1. Chutescoop, but with the scoop's control lines long enough to reach back to the cockpit and 'double blocked' to the rail somewhere 'under' the foretriangle .... but adds a lot of complexity to raising/lowering ..... as does using a Chutescoop/sock.
2. Allowing the spinn with tightened sheet to be completely wind-shadowed by the main (and unfurled jib/genoa ... careful not to jam the spinn in the top swivel of the genoa). "Blow" the spinn halyard and pull in the foot, etc. before the spin fallls into the water and goes under the boat ... called a BIG DROP where you pull in the spinn faster than it can 'fall'. You need the spinn halyard terminal end cleated to the mast.
3. Tighten 'premarked' spinn sheet, tighten tack-line (Aspinn) or spinn pole downhaul and foreguy on SymmSpinn, Unfurl jib/genoa, 'TACK through the eye of the wind, 'blow' lazy guy or lazy sheet, and heave-to with the spinn forced/stuck to the windward side of main/jib ... release spinn halyard (terminal end cleated to mast) and PEEL/pull the spinn down and into a hatch/turtle, etc. Practice starting in light wind and work your way up in ever stronger winds.
and the ultimate BEST method is:
4. Get a spinnaker furler. http://www.bamarusa.com/bamar-rollgen.htm or a competitive spinnaker furler.
Chutescoops or spinnaker socks, etc. IMHO add a lot of unneeded complexity to spinnaker handling. Simply learn/practice to raise lower with a tight (premarked) spinn sheet, the terminal end of the halyard cleated to the mast and with the spinnaker 'shadowed' by the mainsail faster, safer, easier. Of course you have to practice practice practice to get this 'right'.
1. Chutescoop, but with the scoop's control lines long enough to reach back to the cockpit and 'double blocked' to the rail somewhere 'under' the foretriangle .... but adds a lot of complexity to raising/lowering ..... as does using a Chutescoop/sock.
2. Allowing the spinn with tightened sheet to be completely wind-shadowed by the main (and unfurled jib/genoa ... careful not to jam the spinn in the top swivel of the genoa). "Blow" the spinn halyard and pull in the foot, etc. before the spin fallls into the water and goes under the boat ... called a BIG DROP where you pull in the spinn faster than it can 'fall'. You need the spinn halyard terminal end cleated to the mast.
3. Tighten 'premarked' spinn sheet, tighten tack-line (Aspinn) or spinn pole downhaul and foreguy on SymmSpinn, Unfurl jib/genoa, 'TACK through the eye of the wind, 'blow' lazy guy or lazy sheet, and heave-to with the spinn forced/stuck to the windward side of main/jib ... release spinn halyard (terminal end cleated to mast) and PEEL/pull the spinn down and into a hatch/turtle, etc. Practice starting in light wind and work your way up in ever stronger winds.
and the ultimate BEST method is:
4. Get a spinnaker furler. http://www.bamarusa.com/bamar-rollgen.htm or a competitive spinnaker furler.
Chutescoops or spinnaker socks, etc. IMHO add a lot of unneeded complexity to spinnaker handling. Simply learn/practice to raise lower with a tight (premarked) spinn sheet, the terminal end of the halyard cleated to the mast and with the spinnaker 'shadowed' by the mainsail faster, safer, easier. Of course you have to practice practice practice to get this 'right'.
Re: The real chute...
At risk of being the party pooper, I think flying a "bog boy" spinnaker single handed on a 36' boat qualifies one for consideration of this year's Darwin Awards.
At risk of being the party pooper, I think flying a "bog boy" spinnaker single handed on a 36' boat qualifies one for consideration of this year's Darwin Awards.
I would say that the more one becomes experienced and confident with spinnaker handling .... the easier and safer it becomes.
Perhaps I should post (at some later/future time) "how to easily/safely 'unwrap' a LARGE spinnaker from a forestay, etc.' in the Sail Trim forum ... so to help remove or lessen such 'terror'. Plus how to prevent such 'wraps/bubbles' should be helpful for your learning curve. http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17
If you can fly a large genoa downwind you can easily and with increasing confidence fly a spinn ... after all even if its blowing-20 and the boat is approaching 7 kts. DDW .... the 'apparent wind' will only be 13.
My wife and I routinely fly a 1750 sq. ft. A-spinn. (see my avatar) on long passages ... one below sleeping while the other is 'single handing' on deck. Its just an easily accumulated 'experience' factor that I believe anyone can learn.
Perhaps I should post (at some later/future time) "how to easily/safely 'unwrap' a LARGE spinnaker from a forestay, etc.' in the Sail Trim forum ... so to help remove or lessen such 'terror'. Plus how to prevent such 'wraps/bubbles' should be helpful for your learning curve. http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17
If you can fly a large genoa downwind you can easily and with increasing confidence fly a spinn ... after all even if its blowing-20 and the boat is approaching 7 kts. DDW .... the 'apparent wind' will only be 13.
My wife and I routinely fly a 1750 sq. ft. A-spinn. (see my avatar) on long passages ... one below sleeping while the other is 'single handing' on deck. Its just an easily accumulated 'experience' factor that I believe anyone can learn.
It is not impossible. Two guys in our club race the big chute single handed all the time. It's all about preparation and experience.
Always raising it behind the jib.
Dowsing it is quite easy actually.
(1) Sail down wind and rollout the jib opposite to the pole to blanket the spinn.
(2) Release the guy and tighten the pole-down line to bring the pole towards the forestay.
(3) Release the clew at the guy first. The spinn fly forward with the sheet attached.
(4) Grep the sheet and start stuffing it with the spinn down the hatch.
(5) The person at the helm lower the halyard while you keep stuffing the spinn down the hatch.
(6) The foredeck guy secure all the loose lines, take down the pole and you are Done
We regularly fly it with just two person with one at the helm. Haven't try single hand yet.
Always raising it behind the jib.
Dowsing it is quite easy actually.
(1) Sail down wind and rollout the jib opposite to the pole to blanket the spinn.
(2) Release the guy and tighten the pole-down line to bring the pole towards the forestay.
(3) Release the clew at the guy first. The spinn fly forward with the sheet attached.
(4) Grep the sheet and start stuffing it with the spinn down the hatch.
(5) The person at the helm lower the halyard while you keep stuffing the spinn down the hatch.
(6) The foredeck guy secure all the loose lines, take down the pole and you are Done
We regularly fly it with just two person with one at the helm. Haven't try single hand yet.
now that I'm not typing from my phone...
I usually fly my symmetrical spinnaker with just me and someone at the helm, doing all the rigging myself. I have done it both with and without a sock, and found that the sock does not add complexity at all, in fact it reduces it. I will often set the pole and raise the spinnaker in the sock while the genoa is still flying.
With it in the sock it makes the process very easy, and I have never had a problem with wraps or bubbles since getting the sock (the first time you douse the chute with the sock, it will "pack" the chute into the sock nice and straight, and it always comes out just as straight as it was packed).
My procedure is to (all done at a comfortable / relaxed pace) rig / set the pole, raise the chute and double check that all my lines are properly routed. Once I have double checked everything to ensure it is correct, then I raise the sock and make sure the chute is flying more or less correct, then as quick as I can drop the genoa and secure it so it won't go in the water, and then do my final trim on the chute to get the most power out of it. You can even have the chute hoisted and rigged, but still doused while you are prepping everything before turning for your downwind tack, then to raise the sock the moment you make your turn (around the mark, if racing)...
To douse the chute it's the same calm and relaxed procedure, just in reverse.
raise the genoa inside the chute (if applicable for your situation), douse with sock (which can be done in a few seconds before rounding a mark), then calmly take your time lowering the sail, taking the pole down and putting everything away.
Using a sock takes 95% of the stress out of the raising / lowering of a spinnaker....
I usually fly my symmetrical spinnaker with just me and someone at the helm, doing all the rigging myself. I have done it both with and without a sock, and found that the sock does not add complexity at all, in fact it reduces it. I will often set the pole and raise the spinnaker in the sock while the genoa is still flying.
With it in the sock it makes the process very easy, and I have never had a problem with wraps or bubbles since getting the sock (the first time you douse the chute with the sock, it will "pack" the chute into the sock nice and straight, and it always comes out just as straight as it was packed).
My procedure is to (all done at a comfortable / relaxed pace) rig / set the pole, raise the chute and double check that all my lines are properly routed. Once I have double checked everything to ensure it is correct, then I raise the sock and make sure the chute is flying more or less correct, then as quick as I can drop the genoa and secure it so it won't go in the water, and then do my final trim on the chute to get the most power out of it. You can even have the chute hoisted and rigged, but still doused while you are prepping everything before turning for your downwind tack, then to raise the sock the moment you make your turn (around the mark, if racing)...
To douse the chute it's the same calm and relaxed procedure, just in reverse.
raise the genoa inside the chute (if applicable for your situation), douse with sock (which can be done in a few seconds before rounding a mark), then calmly take your time lowering the sail, taking the pole down and putting everything away.
Using a sock takes 95% of the stress out of the raising / lowering of a spinnaker....
...you need two experienced people with the symmetric. Autohelm is great until something goes wrong, a gybe, a kite in the water, a spin pole wrapped around the stick and you need adaptable intelligence at the wheel. A human being. This is why the asym is such a beautiful thing, it makes single handing a spinnaker possible. And if you get a furler it gets even easier.
You can get a symmetric to be just as 'gentle' as an asymmetric ..... by pulling down the pole, lay it on and hold it to the forestay. Besides, if you need to or occasionally fly an A-spinn DDW you're going to need a 'pole' anyway.
An advantage to a chute-scoop or sock is that you can partly 'reef' a (any) spinnaker while gybing, etc. , ditto with a spinnaker furler. ...... if the scoop/sock control lines are lead all the way back to the cockpit you dont even have to go forward,,,, unless you need to 'dip' a pole, etc.
An advantage to a chute-scoop or sock is that you can partly 'reef' a (any) spinnaker while gybing, etc. , ditto with a spinnaker furler. ...... if the scoop/sock control lines are lead all the way back to the cockpit you dont even have to go forward,,,, unless you need to 'dip' a pole, etc.
#2 for me
I do #2, but keep the spinnaker halyard in my hand to give it friction allowing me to pull in the spinnaker at my pace behind the main. This of course after I've eased the spin pole over to the furled jib.
JerryA
I do #2, but keep the spinnaker halyard in my hand to give it friction allowing me to pull in the spinnaker at my pace behind the main. This of course after I've eased the spin pole over to the furled jib.
JerryA
Several ways to do this, all involve having the terminal end of the spinn halyard having a stopper knot and the spinn terminated to a cleat, etc. ... so it doesnt go overboard or 'up the mast'
1. Chutescoop, but with the scoop's control lines long enough to reach back to the cockpit and 'double blocked' to the rail somewhere 'under' the foretriangle .... but adds a lot of complexity to raising/lowering ..... as does using a Chutescoop/sock.
2. Allowing the spinn with tightened sheet to be completely wind-shadowed by the main (and unfurled jib/genoa ... careful not to jam the spinn in the top swivel of the genoa). "Blow" the spinn halyard and pull in the foot, etc. before the spin fallls into the water and goes under the boat ... called a BIG DROP where you pull in the spinn faster than it can 'fall'. You need the spinn halyard terminal end cleated to the mast.
3. Tighten 'premarked' spinn sheet, tighten tack-line (Aspinn) or spinn pole downhaul and foreguy on SymmSpinn, Unfurl jib/genoa, 'TACK through the eye of the wind, 'blow' lazy guy or lazy sheet, and heave-to with the spinn forced/stuck to the windward side of main/jib ... release spinn halyard (terminal end cleated to mast) and PEEL/pull the spinn down and into a hatch/turtle, etc. Practice starting in light wind and work your way up in ever stronger winds.
and the ultimate BEST method is:
4. Get a spinnaker furler. http://www.bamarusa.com/bamar-rollgen.htm or a competitive spinnaker furler.
Chutescoops or spinnaker socks, etc. IMHO add a lot of unneeded complexity to spinnaker handling. Simply learn/practice to raise lower with a tight (premarked) spinn sheet, the terminal end of the halyard cleated to the mast and with the spinnaker 'shadowed' by the mainsail faster, safer, easier. Of course you have to practice practice practice to get this 'right'.
This sounds like the best short handed method.
If you have a loose footed main, then you can pull the spinnaker over the boom (use the lazy guy ) and down the companionway hatch. It is very controlled. Called a "letterbox drop".
I have done a lot of spinnaker work with a takedown line attached to what used to be called the belly button. have a sailmaker make a reinforce patch with a loop 1/3 to 1/2 up the middle. Attach a line long enough to go down the forward hatch or over the boom (letterbox drop) or directly to the companion way. Look mat some of the latest TP 52's. If you leave both clews tight and blow the halyard, the spinnaker will float down behind the jib while pulling the takedown line. Once you have pull as much as possible, release the guy or sheet and bring the rest down below. Watch a video of professionals doing a drop. I race my J-36 single and double handed with an asymmetrical on a pole. Best of both worlds. A symmetrical can be controlled by lowering the pole all the way to the deck. It can't get away from you and will aslo let you reach at tighter angles.
Interesting discussion. Have to think that a Ben 36.7 - about 5900 kg with a narrow and deep fin keel - would be a bit more lively with its chute up in 25 knots of breeze than a Tayana 37and it's close to 10,000 kg displacement. I'd want the autopilot on the Beneteau hooked up to the rudder quadrant and a sure-fire dousing system (which may or may not have been described above... ) before I'd try to fly a chute singlehanded on it in that much wind.
Thanks...Great Suggestions
I like the suggestion of the attaching a bellybutton patch in the center of the spinnaker with a line attached to it. I watched the youtube video of a TP52 and they used that method. The line was pulled at the same time the halyard was eased. This tensioned line caused a crease in the spinnaker which looked to quickly de-powered the chute which made for a quicker/safer drop.
Yup, the 36.7 can get pretty exciting while under spinnaker and 25 kts is our magic number just before we decide to douse it. Having a full crew makes it easy however I would really like to learn how to safely do it single handed.
I like the suggestion of the attaching a bellybutton patch in the center of the spinnaker with a line attached to it. I watched the youtube video of a TP52 and they used that method. The line was pulled at the same time the halyard was eased. This tensioned line caused a crease in the spinnaker which looked to quickly de-powered the chute which made for a quicker/safer drop.
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