Speed over water

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 6, 2012
4
Abacat Gemini 105mc Cape Canaveral
I am having a difficult time getting this info.....
What should my speed over water be with a Gemini 34' cat with a 27 hp Westerbeke?Assuming a light load and moderate seas at about 22000 rpm.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
At 22,000 rpm about 120 kts. At 2,200 with a 12x12 wheel not quite so fast may 10 to 15 kts.
 
May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
I would suggest you mark a course and run it both upwind and downwind taking a reading of your GPS speed over land indicator on each heading at 2,200 RPM. combine the speeds and divide by 2 and you should have a useful approximation of your speed over water. It is not possible to provide an accurate answer as there are to many variables. You do not mention wind nor the size and pitch of your prop and these would be two major factors in the number you are seeking. In addition the definition of light loads and moderate seas may vary from person to person.
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
Just curious, why do you need your speed over water as opposed to speed over ground?
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Speed THROUGH the water (STW) is how fast the water is going by the hull.
Speed over the ground (SOG) is how fast the boat is moving with respect to the sea floor.
you can have just about any combination of the two due to currents and wind.
example: if the current is flowing at 5 knots SOG south and the boat is going 4 knots STW North then the boat is actually moving 1 knot SOG to the south. Current is always given as SOG BTW
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Speed THROUGH the water (STW) is how fast the water is going by the hull.
Speed over the ground (SOG) is how fast the boat is moving with respect to the sea floor.
I'm going to nitpick you here, Bill. The SOG measured by GPS satellites and recievers is not related to the bottom of the ocean.... it is simply a measurement of a vessel's progress from one point to another... the term "ground" represents the surface of the earth.

Speed over Ground is affected by the many variables of the vessel's environment. Current, wind. etc. while Speed through the Water simply measures the boats progress related to it's containing medium....water. Or to rephrase your description, how fast the hull is passing through the water.

Aviation has a similar relationship between SOG and the plane's "airspeed", so using the ocean floor as a reference would not apply either.
 
Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
GPS sat/rec units measures the speed of the vehicle carrying the GPS/rec over the earth, regardless of all other influences. A knotmeter measures a boats speed through water, regardless of what that water is doing.
Now I'm asking myself why I wrote that? That's what cabin fever does to mindless dolt.
Ray
 
May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
It also ocurred to me to ask what the usefulness of that information would be but, to each it's own.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,986
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
It also ocurred to me to ask what the usefulness of that information would be but, to each it's own.
Benny, I think it has to do with those of us who sail in currents all the time. I always like to know both SOG and STW.
 

LloydB

.
Jan 15, 2006
927
Macgregor 22 Silverton
I take it you have already measured your own boat speed under those conditions and understand the difference between SOG and STW, and were wondering if this was slower or faster than usual for this boat. Be patient I don't have a boat like that either but the answer will surface. :)
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
It also ocurred to me to ask what the usefulness of that information would be but, to each it's own.
The knotmeter, or log, is a measure of performance. When using polars the target speeds are hull speeds, i.e. knotmeter, not gps read outs. The sail trimmers watch the log, not the gps when adjusting trim.....

Aviators monitor the difference between their plane's airspeed and its gps speed.... it tells them if there's a head wind or a tail wind, and thus how fuel mileage will be affected. The same for power boats..... if your fuel use is 1 gal/hr at 10kt.... then an adverse current, waves or headwind, is going to reqluire more power to maintain that same hull speed. If your gps is a lot higher than your hull speed that means you have a good following current or tailwind that will improve your mileage... in both cases here, the hull speed stays the same... it's the externals that affect the SOG.
 
Oct 24, 2011
258
Lancer 28 Grand Lake
To find your speed over water, measure a distance of a nautical mile (6080 feet) on a chart, look at the start position, and the finish position, make sure you are going full speed when you pass the start position, and still going full speed when you get to the finish position. turn around immediately and run back up, add the two times together, then half them, then time over distance, gives your speed. However, this is mainly done on rivers, with ships on trials, and they do it up and down the river, where they have currents, either on the bow, or on the stern. Not so accurate if you have changing currents over that mile. The winds will be factored in, with the double run, you could have the current pushing your stern, and the wind pushing your bow on the first pass. The current on your bow, and the wind on your stern second pass. Which would give the same results as a week later if you did it again, and had wind and current on your stern first pass, and against you second pass, or third week, when their is no wind, and no current.

Again, you could take your speed over ground, in both directions.

As to what your speed should be, havent a clue, Kind of like the last fast car i had, manufacturers data, said top speed, 135 mph, approx, because some will go faster, and some will go slower, and if it does 135mph tops, with a 150 pound driver, it wont do that top speed, with a 300pound driver, and four 300 pound passangers (not that two three hundred pound passangers could have fitted in the back seat, but if they did, and the car didnt do exactly 135, and the manufacturer said it would do that, i could perhaps sue him.

Its like thirty foot boats, that manufacturers consider as bluewater boats, they may well be, but they will never say that, their marketing departments hint at it, They might say "enjoy a trip to Bondi Beach on our new thirty footer" but they dont say sail from new york round the horn to bondi beach on our new thirty footer" because if they did, they would end up getting sued.
 
Nov 28, 2009
495
Catalina 30 St. Croix
If the water line is around 33 feet and the boat will not plane then, the square root of 33 times 1,34 will give around 7.7 knots. It's theoretical but very close. Speed over ground against speed over water is very useful for VMG, velocity made good. It becomes very important when racing. Same as course over water vs. over ground. Is the current favorable? Is one tack better than the other. Is left side favorable. In cruising it is important for time to destination. When I go from Chaguaramas in Trinidad to St. Croix. I get a 1.3 knot current pushing me in a NW course. I adjust the autopilot to compensate for this by going slightly more north and the GPS will also then tell me time of arrival. If you calculate by hand without taking the current in consideration, you'll be many hours off. If you are sleeping and not paying attention, you might end up in Vieques or PR instead. It takes me anywhere from 56 to 72 hours depending on the wind strength.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Isn't speed over water the same as speed over ground? I thought it was speed through the water..... speed through the water infers only the boat's movement compared to the water it sits in.... the fact that that medium moves, rises and falls etc... affects the boat's speed from one point to another.... surface water is the same as "ground"... it's all part of the earth's surface.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.