Howdy- I just bought my first sailboat in November and am plunging into fixing, refurbishing and equipping her. One of my first needs is some speed and depth info. I have been scouring ebay and have been tempted to purchase several items, but I thought I'd get some advice first. First off, if I buy a transducer, will it work with any display, or does it need to be matched? I'm leaning toward buying a whole package, but you can get some great deals if you buy them separately. Secondly, I'd love to not fool with a through-hull transducer this early in my sailing career. I'm thinking transom mount would rock since it's easy to clean if something gets in the impeller. But the downside would seem to be that you get depth info when you need it least, i.e. aft of the keel. I supposed I could just set the alarm a bit lower to compensate for getting the data later. Aside from transom mount and through hull, I've seen inside the hull options as well. That sounds really attractive, but I can't imagine how that would work for speed. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! chris
Speed Log / Depth Sounder
- Thread starter Chris Arias
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Garmin and RayMarine, probably others too.....
make depthfinders/fishfinders that shoot through the hull as long as your boat is fiberglass and you're not trying to shoot through lead ballast. Sure, no speed if you go this route, but GPS is more accurate for your actual speed over ground anyhow. The Fishfinders are great, even if you don't fish; it can be quite valuable in anchoring to be able to see the bottom contour. Transducer's are very specific to their head units. I recommend NOT buying components separately!
make depthfinders/fishfinders that shoot through the hull as long as your boat is fiberglass and you're not trying to shoot through lead ballast. Sure, no speed if you go this route, but GPS is more accurate for your actual speed over ground anyhow. The Fishfinders are great, even if you don't fish; it can be quite valuable in anchoring to be able to see the bottom contour. Transducer's are very specific to their head units. I recommend NOT buying components separately!
Great Idea
QM1- Thanks for the info. That's great. I may indeed go the fish finder route. I never thought of that for anchoring. How accurate is GPS for speed if you're really trying to tune in your speed? J&R- I got a 79 US Yachts 25. It's no great prize, but it was $500 and decently appointed rigging wise. Needs cleaning up, re-wiring, etc. My guess is that the PO sailed this several years ago when lake level was a non-issue. In the last two years, our lake is down 15', so passing between two islands, for instance, can be a much dicier proposition than it used to be, as I learned when I took it out the first time and ran aground 200' from shore
QM1- Thanks for the info. That's great. I may indeed go the fish finder route. I never thought of that for anchoring. How accurate is GPS for speed if you're really trying to tune in your speed? J&R- I got a 79 US Yachts 25. It's no great prize, but it was $500 and decently appointed rigging wise. Needs cleaning up, re-wiring, etc. My guess is that the PO sailed this several years ago when lake level was a non-issue. In the last two years, our lake is down 15', so passing between two islands, for instance, can be a much dicier proposition than it used to be, as I learned when I took it out the first time and ran aground 200' from shore
Do some research in the archives here.
Type in - depth sounder transducers - for a start. Then progress to - gps speed readings - for some great information. Sounds like you have a great bargain to work on. Good luck with it.
Type in - depth sounder transducers - for a start. Then progress to - gps speed readings - for some great information. Sounds like you have a great bargain to work on. Good luck with it.
We love our fish finder. It not only shows bottom contours but
you can see a trend in bottom slope. We will head straight towards shore and watch the depth and the slope. Sometimes the bottom is as flat as a table and in other places it wouldbe a steep hill if it were dry. Sometimes we find a gully in an otherwise flat bottom. We often sail the 8 foot contour along shore.
you can see a trend in bottom slope. We will head straight towards shore and watch the depth and the slope. Sometimes the bottom is as flat as a table and in other places it wouldbe a steep hill if it were dry. Sometimes we find a gully in an otherwise flat bottom. We often sail the 8 foot contour along shore.
Toilet rings
There's been a lot written about mounting transducers in wax rings that are usually used for seting toilets. They will read through the wax and hull assuming the hull isn't cored. This can be done forward of the keel. GPS is probably more accurated for speed over ground. Speed thru the water can be different due to current, tides (obviously not an issue on Lanier), etc. That is, if you're travelling with the current, your speed thru the water will be less than your speed over ground. I'd go with something that shows you the bottom and not worry too much about speed. As your skills improve, you'll get your boat to go as fast as she'll go. You really don't need a meter to tell you what the number is. On a boat that cost you $500 at the jump, I'd be careful about spending more than the cost of the boat to find out if I like to sail or not. Besides, at that price, it's likely that you'll need to spend money on more critical items like rigging (both standing and running) and maybe sails. How's the motor? Anyway, instrumentation on an inland lake would be the last place I'd spend my money until I was certain the boat was sound and I really liked sailing it.
There's been a lot written about mounting transducers in wax rings that are usually used for seting toilets. They will read through the wax and hull assuming the hull isn't cored. This can be done forward of the keel. GPS is probably more accurated for speed over ground. Speed thru the water can be different due to current, tides (obviously not an issue on Lanier), etc. That is, if you're travelling with the current, your speed thru the water will be less than your speed over ground. I'd go with something that shows you the bottom and not worry too much about speed. As your skills improve, you'll get your boat to go as fast as she'll go. You really don't need a meter to tell you what the number is. On a boat that cost you $500 at the jump, I'd be careful about spending more than the cost of the boat to find out if I like to sail or not. Besides, at that price, it's likely that you'll need to spend money on more critical items like rigging (both standing and running) and maybe sails. How's the motor? Anyway, instrumentation on an inland lake would be the last place I'd spend my money until I was certain the boat was sound and I really liked sailing it.
Transducers
Transducers do need to be matched with the read out. A transom mount will probably serve you well. Most of today's sounders are "forward looking" so that one can see impending shallows. However, with a chart one can do just fine with a stern read out.
Transducers do need to be matched with the read out. A transom mount will probably serve you well. Most of today's sounders are "forward looking" so that one can see impending shallows. However, with a chart one can do just fine with a stern read out.
That Brings Up A Good Question
John- Thanks for those thoughts. That's a good word on expensive instrumentation. I'll tell you what I was thinking and everyone can chime in. Over-improving "Novice Breakdown" (that's her name) may be inevitable given the sticker price. If it was immaculate (which it isn't) it would be worth $2-3k. Electronics aside, I could probably make it immaculate for $2k, which means I might, at best, break even on her. As far as figuring out whether I like sailing, I'm afraid I'm already ruined for the sport. I love it. I took her out in 10 knots a couple of days ago and was on cloud nine, it's underwhelming looks and performance notwithstanding. I crew on a nicely appointed Soverel 33, so I'm already eyeballing my next boat, probably a J/22 or 24 in a couple of years, Lord willing. But I'd like to learn some basic lessons in something cheap and non-pristine ;-) The sails are a little tired, but serviceable, so I didn't plan on spending much there. Maybe add a tired but serviceable genoa and / or a decent spinnaker. If I play my cards right, I might be able to take the spinnaker to my next boat. The rigging is more or less sound. I'm replacing halyards, sheets, etc. and plan on bringing the control lines aft to the cockpit to make for easier single handing. It has some funky glasswork around the mast step. It looks like a previous owner just slapped some untrimmed glass around the step, wetted it out and left it. There may be a bigger issue there than I think. I'll post some pictures in the next week or two. The motor is a Suzuki DT-4 outboard. I'm overhauling the lower unit as we speak. Another good learning experience. I have a couple of deck leaks to chase down, which looks more like an expenditure of time than money. First bucks are going to a solar charger. Tunes are a priority ;-) Next is new line and bringing controls to the cockpit. (BTW if anyone has any standup blocks and / or rope clutches you'd like to sell for cheap, drop me a line) Next bucks will be on a simple rewire and some inexpensive cabin lights. As long as the step doesn't get any weirder over the spring and summer, I don't plan on dropping the mast till next winter when I will redo the step, rewire the mast, etc. That will be the first big project. In the meantime, I'll replace the window frames and blow all the latex paint off the deck, and do anything else that will still let me enjoy sailing her in the meantime. I thought about flipping this one, which I may still do, but I also thought about just viewing it as an expendable test bed for everything from gadgets to fiberglass work. "I wonder if I could install a head? Oops. That didn't go too well. Learned a lot for next time." Or maybe it does go well and I add a quick $500 to the resale. At any rate, if I improve it and sell it, even if at a slight loss, it's all good. But I could probably trash it and still get well more than I paid for it if I just sold the motor, sails and rigging. Then I could donate the hull or just give it to someone else who wants to experiment. All that to say, I really would like to get a depth sounder at the very least to help me navigate Lanier's narrower margins safely. But if I can find a great deal on a GPS for a couple hundred bucks, it could be useful now and go with me whenever I move up into something else. So...Is my reasoning sound or are these the classic misguided ramblings of an over-enthusiastic greenhorn? I earnestly seek the wisdom and guidance of you, the more experienced sailors of the world. All the best- chris
John- Thanks for those thoughts. That's a good word on expensive instrumentation. I'll tell you what I was thinking and everyone can chime in. Over-improving "Novice Breakdown" (that's her name) may be inevitable given the sticker price. If it was immaculate (which it isn't) it would be worth $2-3k. Electronics aside, I could probably make it immaculate for $2k, which means I might, at best, break even on her. As far as figuring out whether I like sailing, I'm afraid I'm already ruined for the sport. I love it. I took her out in 10 knots a couple of days ago and was on cloud nine, it's underwhelming looks and performance notwithstanding. I crew on a nicely appointed Soverel 33, so I'm already eyeballing my next boat, probably a J/22 or 24 in a couple of years, Lord willing. But I'd like to learn some basic lessons in something cheap and non-pristine ;-) The sails are a little tired, but serviceable, so I didn't plan on spending much there. Maybe add a tired but serviceable genoa and / or a decent spinnaker. If I play my cards right, I might be able to take the spinnaker to my next boat. The rigging is more or less sound. I'm replacing halyards, sheets, etc. and plan on bringing the control lines aft to the cockpit to make for easier single handing. It has some funky glasswork around the mast step. It looks like a previous owner just slapped some untrimmed glass around the step, wetted it out and left it. There may be a bigger issue there than I think. I'll post some pictures in the next week or two. The motor is a Suzuki DT-4 outboard. I'm overhauling the lower unit as we speak. Another good learning experience. I have a couple of deck leaks to chase down, which looks more like an expenditure of time than money. First bucks are going to a solar charger. Tunes are a priority ;-) Next is new line and bringing controls to the cockpit. (BTW if anyone has any standup blocks and / or rope clutches you'd like to sell for cheap, drop me a line) Next bucks will be on a simple rewire and some inexpensive cabin lights. As long as the step doesn't get any weirder over the spring and summer, I don't plan on dropping the mast till next winter when I will redo the step, rewire the mast, etc. That will be the first big project. In the meantime, I'll replace the window frames and blow all the latex paint off the deck, and do anything else that will still let me enjoy sailing her in the meantime. I thought about flipping this one, which I may still do, but I also thought about just viewing it as an expendable test bed for everything from gadgets to fiberglass work. "I wonder if I could install a head? Oops. That didn't go too well. Learned a lot for next time." Or maybe it does go well and I add a quick $500 to the resale. At any rate, if I improve it and sell it, even if at a slight loss, it's all good. But I could probably trash it and still get well more than I paid for it if I just sold the motor, sails and rigging. Then I could donate the hull or just give it to someone else who wants to experiment. All that to say, I really would like to get a depth sounder at the very least to help me navigate Lanier's narrower margins safely. But if I can find a great deal on a GPS for a couple hundred bucks, it could be useful now and go with me whenever I move up into something else. So...Is my reasoning sound or are these the classic misguided ramblings of an over-enthusiastic greenhorn? I earnestly seek the wisdom and guidance of you, the more experienced sailors of the world. All the best- chris
basics
To sail your boat, you need a hull, a mast and a sail. Anything else is gravy. I'd be very concerned about a sloppy fiberglass job at the base of the mast. Rigging that is "sound, more or less" makes me think there are a few problems and that isn't good enough in an unexpected blow particularly if the mast is stepped on a shaky footing. Standing rigging that fails at the wrong time can be life threatening. I'm not the first to say that a $5000 boat will cost $5000 regardless of how much you pay for her up front. Before sinking (sorry, bad expression here) a lot of money into her, I'd want to be sure that the structural questions you raised were adequately answered. The same amount of money might just buy you a boat that is worth the amount. Tunes can wait. Good luck with your adventure.
To sail your boat, you need a hull, a mast and a sail. Anything else is gravy. I'd be very concerned about a sloppy fiberglass job at the base of the mast. Rigging that is "sound, more or less" makes me think there are a few problems and that isn't good enough in an unexpected blow particularly if the mast is stepped on a shaky footing. Standing rigging that fails at the wrong time can be life threatening. I'm not the first to say that a $5000 boat will cost $5000 regardless of how much you pay for her up front. Before sinking (sorry, bad expression here) a lot of money into her, I'd want to be sure that the structural questions you raised were adequately answered. The same amount of money might just buy you a boat that is worth the amount. Tunes can wait. Good luck with your adventure.
There is almost nothing that can be done to a fiberglass
boat (short of smashing it up) that can't be repaired with a good grinder, some fiberglass and resin and some labor. If you don't like the look around the mast step grind it back to solid structure and relay the glass. This repair will be easy. On Bietzpadlin there had been damage in the way of the rudder post and the repair looked like someone had wet out some chopped strand mat and simply stuffed it in around the damage. No attempt was made for neatness. Try working in a 2 foot high 3 foot wide tunnel with a grinder, and then a pot of resin and several pieces of glass, a paint brush and a roller to compact the work. Material cost for such as that is less than 10 dollars.
boat (short of smashing it up) that can't be repaired with a good grinder, some fiberglass and resin and some labor. If you don't like the look around the mast step grind it back to solid structure and relay the glass. This repair will be easy. On Bietzpadlin there had been damage in the way of the rudder post and the repair looked like someone had wet out some chopped strand mat and simply stuffed it in around the damage. No attempt was made for neatness. Try working in a 2 foot high 3 foot wide tunnel with a grinder, and then a pot of resin and several pieces of glass, a paint brush and a roller to compact the work. Material cost for such as that is less than 10 dollars.
I have found that a belt sander works well for finishing
and matching surrounding contours. Its fast with coarse paper and fine leaves a smooth finish. The belt sander is easy to control and will not gouge or create waves. I have a Garmin 185 GPS/Sounder that I love. Only paid $125 on Ebay. Maps can be a pain to find however. It has been helpful in learning to trim, I can put the boat on autopilot and just focus on the trim while watching the speed SOG and STW. The fish finding feature is terrific and is useful in finding those elusive man made reefs off MDR. The mapping accuracy is amazing. On full zoom the accuracy to the docks is within a few feet. It is a transom mount transducer with paddle wheel attached. Rear mounting has not been a problem. Shallow water alarm will let you know in plenty of time. Anchor watch is priceless. If you can afford color get it. I have seen others and they are much easier to read, though power consumption I hear is higher. Frank
and matching surrounding contours. Its fast with coarse paper and fine leaves a smooth finish. The belt sander is easy to control and will not gouge or create waves. I have a Garmin 185 GPS/Sounder that I love. Only paid $125 on Ebay. Maps can be a pain to find however. It has been helpful in learning to trim, I can put the boat on autopilot and just focus on the trim while watching the speed SOG and STW. The fish finding feature is terrific and is useful in finding those elusive man made reefs off MDR. The mapping accuracy is amazing. On full zoom the accuracy to the docks is within a few feet. It is a transom mount transducer with paddle wheel attached. Rear mounting has not been a problem. Shallow water alarm will let you know in plenty of time. Anchor watch is priceless. If you can afford color get it. I have seen others and they are much easier to read, though power consumption I hear is higher. Frank
There is a wide array of sanders and each has its place
The 4 1/2 angle grinder will allow a range of disks from 25 grit up to about 280 grit. It will gouge and with a very course disk you don't want any distractions, Belt sander are good as are random orbit machines and palm sanders a round disk can't get into a corner. The tools bought for a job cost less than the price of hired labor for one day.
The 4 1/2 angle grinder will allow a range of disks from 25 grit up to about 280 grit. It will gouge and with a very course disk you don't want any distractions, Belt sander are good as are random orbit machines and palm sanders a round disk can't get into a corner. The tools bought for a job cost less than the price of hired labor for one day.
I would recommend a handheld GPS
A handheld GPS can be used on your boat and you can take it with you on any other boat you have the chance to go out on. The one in the link below is similar to the model I bought 5 years ago for $200, now selling for around $150. This is a great product that will serve you well. It is probably available from the Chandlery at this website as well. As to all the other stuff I would think that a depth sounder/fishfinder would be a priority on the shrinking waters of Lake Lanier. Good luck with your project and go sailing.
A handheld GPS can be used on your boat and you can take it with you on any other boat you have the chance to go out on. The one in the link below is similar to the model I bought 5 years ago for $200, now selling for around $150. This is a great product that will serve you well. It is probably available from the Chandlery at this website as well. As to all the other stuff I would think that a depth sounder/fishfinder would be a priority on the shrinking waters of Lake Lanier. Good luck with your project and go sailing.
Welcome to sailing!
You've gotten good advice. Don't over-invest in your current boat. You will not get the $ back. Also, do not be afraid of thru-hulls. They are easy to install and are found on nearly every boat. A well done thru-hull for speed or depth is no big project and no danger to the boat. I agree with others that getting your standing rigging (the wires) in shape is a priority. For Lake Lanier you may also want to get some wheels to bolt to the keel.
You've gotten good advice. Don't over-invest in your current boat. You will not get the $ back. Also, do not be afraid of thru-hulls. They are easy to install and are found on nearly every boat. A well done thru-hull for speed or depth is no big project and no danger to the boat. I agree with others that getting your standing rigging (the wires) in shape is a priority. For Lake Lanier you may also want to get some wheels to bolt to the keel.
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