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Speed freak 2
I had been sailing on racing and regular monohulls for a longtime at relatively fast (12 knts) to moderate (6 knts) speeds until few years ago when I had the opportunity to be a guest for half a day on Explorer and few years later on Orange, two giant catamarans. Overseing the water rushing under the net, I was truly impressed by the impression of speed and power. Bruno Peyron, the skipper kept both time the boat at 20 - 22 knts mostly due to the traffic in the NY harbor. The powerful rigid inflatable escorting us was unable to follow us in the choppy water of the Hudson. We all know that catamarans are the fastest sailing boats, in the last around the world, Explorer II has reached numerous time speeds of 35 to 36 knts and an impressive average speed of 20 knts.
I had been sailing on racing and regular monohulls for a longtime at relatively fast (12 knts) to moderate (6 knts) speeds until few years ago when I had the opportunity to be a guest for half a day on Explorer and few years later on Orange, two giant catamarans. Overseing the water rushing under the net, I was truly impressed by the impression of speed and power. Bruno Peyron, the skipper kept both time the boat at 20 - 22 knts mostly due to the traffic in the NY harbor. The powerful rigid inflatable escorting us was unable to follow us in the choppy water of the Hudson. We all know that catamarans are the fastest sailing boats, in the last around the world, Explorer II has reached numerous time speeds of 35 to 36 knts and an impressive average speed of 20 knts.
Clipper Ships.
I was surprised, back in the mid 80's when I read about a brand new sailboat which had just broken a record formerly held by a clipper ship from the 1880s for time over a 1000 mile run down the East Coast. I was surprised to learn that those clipper ships could, and did sail at over 20 knots! These were freighters, for Pete's sake, FAST freighters, but freighters nonetheless.
I was surprised, back in the mid 80's when I read about a brand new sailboat which had just broken a record formerly held by a clipper ship from the 1880s for time over a 1000 mile run down the East Coast. I was surprised to learn that those clipper ships could, and did sail at over 20 knots! These were freighters, for Pete's sake, FAST freighters, but freighters nonetheless.
records
Records come in many categories. The outright speed record is currently held by a windsurfer. Surfboard as boat? I dunno - how do you sail without spilling your drink? *o Ocean crossing? Not me thanks. But you don't really have to hold the sail up at all times. You can always drop the sail to rest/sleep. Rough weather would be really exciting.
Records come in many categories. The outright speed record is currently held by a windsurfer. Surfboard as boat? I dunno - how do you sail without spilling your drink? *o Ocean crossing? Not me thanks. But you don't really have to hold the sail up at all times. You can always drop the sail to rest/sleep. Rough weather would be really exciting.
Some records by people we know
http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/ships/html/sh_091600_thursdayschi.htm Jim
http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/ships/html/sh_091600_thursdayschi.htm Jim
Here you go...
JohnS, Since you asked about crossing the ocean on a windsurfer, follow the link. I am with you though about the drink spilling bit! Sailing and no beer for days? I think not! (I mean in the evening after the boat is tied-up etc... etc...)
JohnS, Since you asked about crossing the ocean on a windsurfer, follow the link. I am with you though about the drink spilling bit! Sailing and no beer for days? I think not! (I mean in the evening after the boat is tied-up etc... etc...)
Re: Here you go...
Yeah, I saw that. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that thing a windsurfer or sailboard. Not to take away from her accomplishment, or anything. Interestingly, I think I read somewhere that stated she's the first woman to do an ocean crossing on a sailboard (as opposed to stating she's the first person to do it), which leads me to think a man had already done it, but I can't find any info on anyone else. Maybe she is the first person.
Yeah, I saw that. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call that thing a windsurfer or sailboard. Not to take away from her accomplishment, or anything. Interestingly, I think I read somewhere that stated she's the first woman to do an ocean crossing on a sailboard (as opposed to stating she's the first person to do it), which leads me to think a man had already done it, but I can't find any info on anyone else. Maybe she is the first person.
Another French...
Stephane Peyron was the first person to cross the atlantique unassisted with a windsurf in 1987. Interestingly enough the woman used that very same board to do her crossing.
Stephane Peyron was the first person to cross the atlantique unassisted with a windsurf in 1987. Interestingly enough the woman used that very same board to do her crossing.
30 knot gusts in Hunter 27-2
Hull Speed is 6.3 Got caught in a spring front Easter this year. GPS had us at 8.9 downwind with nothing but the main. Sounds like fun, but Lake Pontchartrain averages less than 20ft. Those winds had us riding a chop up to 6ft that day. It felt more like a rodeo or motocross ride than sailing. The lake sucker punched a bunch of us that day. Several boats left Bayou Lacombe bound back for New Orleans expecting heavy winds. Everyone had reefed sails as they hit the lake. Winds died to nothing so fist reefs were shaken out and then later we eventually gave up and motored one by one. Five miles out the wind hit like a locomotive. A boat ahead of us rounded up and almost layed over. Then we got hit by it. We're so light that instead of getting knocked down we took off.
Hull Speed is 6.3 Got caught in a spring front Easter this year. GPS had us at 8.9 downwind with nothing but the main. Sounds like fun, but Lake Pontchartrain averages less than 20ft. Those winds had us riding a chop up to 6ft that day. It felt more like a rodeo or motocross ride than sailing. The lake sucker punched a bunch of us that day. Several boats left Bayou Lacombe bound back for New Orleans expecting heavy winds. Everyone had reefed sails as they hit the lake. Winds died to nothing so fist reefs were shaken out and then later we eventually gave up and motored one by one. Five miles out the wind hit like a locomotive. A boat ahead of us rounded up and almost layed over. Then we got hit by it. We're so light that instead of getting knocked down we took off.
18.4k sog on my Beneteau M405/O400
When my wife and 2 other crew embarked for the VI's from SC in Jan 01, we encountered a winter storm headed southeast. Winds were 45k with 55 k gusts and the seas were 30' to 40' with 10 second period. The hull speed on this boat is 8k. I had about 9 sq ft of jib out. When the storm subsided 36 hours later I check the 2 GPS units on board and they had the boat doing max 18.4k speed over ground (SOG). It wasn't a pleasent experience but it did shave 2 days off the trip to the VI's. I don't need to do that again.
When my wife and 2 other crew embarked for the VI's from SC in Jan 01, we encountered a winter storm headed southeast. Winds were 45k with 55 k gusts and the seas were 30' to 40' with 10 second period. The hull speed on this boat is 8k. I had about 9 sq ft of jib out. When the storm subsided 36 hours later I check the 2 GPS units on board and they had the boat doing max 18.4k speed over ground (SOG). It wasn't a pleasent experience but it did shave 2 days off the trip to the VI's. I don't need to do that again.
Final results
Final results for the Quick Quiz ending August 21, 2005: The fastest I've ever sailed my boat was about: 60% 6-8 kts 24% 9-12 kts 09% More than 12 kts 07% 5 kts 1,028 owners responding
Final results for the Quick Quiz ending August 21, 2005: The fastest I've ever sailed my boat was about: 60% 6-8 kts 24% 9-12 kts 09% More than 12 kts 07% 5 kts 1,028 owners responding
Top Speed
Trying to outrun a Hurricane from Cape Hatteras was the fastest our Intercat had ever sailed. I have to say we did have a following sea with 6 ft swells which took us to 12 knots. Had full enclosure so warm and dry, but was a hairy ride.
Trying to outrun a Hurricane from Cape Hatteras was the fastest our Intercat had ever sailed. I have to say we did have a following sea with 6 ft swells which took us to 12 knots. Had full enclosure so warm and dry, but was a hairy ride.
Hunter 356 / 36 UK
In a Legend 36 (new UK Version of Legend 356) Sailing West Coast Scotland in a recent F7 (steady 32 Knts) running with well reefed main sail I logged a steady 10 - 10.5 Knots against 1 Knt tide with 2 on board. Also recently experienced a real rush in less than 10 Knot breeze managed to do 12.3 SOG Knots through Cuan Sound on West Coast Scotland. Reason was an amazing 8 Knt Spring Tide that pushed us through this spectacular stretch of water near the famous Corryvreckan Whirlpool. In the middle of this 8 Knt spring travels a tiny little 2 car Ferry that has to fight its way across a quarter mile gap with its nose into the surging tide all the way. Kenny "Westlin Winds" Scotland
In a Legend 36 (new UK Version of Legend 356) Sailing West Coast Scotland in a recent F7 (steady 32 Knts) running with well reefed main sail I logged a steady 10 - 10.5 Knots against 1 Knt tide with 2 on board. Also recently experienced a real rush in less than 10 Knot breeze managed to do 12.3 SOG Knots through Cuan Sound on West Coast Scotland. Reason was an amazing 8 Knt Spring Tide that pushed us through this spectacular stretch of water near the famous Corryvreckan Whirlpool. In the middle of this 8 Knt spring travels a tiny little 2 car Ferry that has to fight its way across a quarter mile gap with its nose into the surging tide all the way. Kenny "Westlin Winds" Scotland
need for speed
7.4 knots through the water. White sails as to windward. Tide slack, small (very) waves on a J27. And you feel you are on a race track!!
7.4 knots through the water. White sails as to windward. Tide slack, small (very) waves on a J27. And you feel you are on a race track!!
need for speed 2
sorry, a J27 (Jaguar 27) is a UK built version of the Catalina 27...in my case with twin keels.
sorry, a J27 (Jaguar 27) is a UK built version of the Catalina 27...in my case with twin keels.
Speed is relative.
I have two boats, A Nacra 6.0 cat for racing and a Hunter 25.5 - "the wife boat". When we are on the Hunter and have her healed over my wife yells back to me " we are really sailing now!". I just chuckle to myself knowing we are only doing 6 knots. But to her that is fast. I have seen 24 knots SOG on my cat with the monster masthead a-chute up known as "big red". I've got a photo of the leeward hull at 20+ knots and will try to post it if I can find it. All you see is a 6 foot rooster tail of water jetting into the air from bow to rudder. It's like being lashed to a locomotive. She'll dish out all you can take and more. I was sailing the Nacra in the St John's one day when I saw a J35 up head. Naturally I had to run him down. The skipper saw me coming and started barking orders to the crew. The skippers wife watched us as we passed on the high side, hiked out drinking beers and grinning from ear-to-ear. She yelled back to the skipper "Honey why are we going so slow". Ouch. Ted
I have two boats, A Nacra 6.0 cat for racing and a Hunter 25.5 - "the wife boat". When we are on the Hunter and have her healed over my wife yells back to me " we are really sailing now!". I just chuckle to myself knowing we are only doing 6 knots. But to her that is fast. I have seen 24 knots SOG on my cat with the monster masthead a-chute up known as "big red". I've got a photo of the leeward hull at 20+ knots and will try to post it if I can find it. All you see is a 6 foot rooster tail of water jetting into the air from bow to rudder. It's like being lashed to a locomotive. She'll dish out all you can take and more. I was sailing the Nacra in the St John's one day when I saw a J35 up head. Naturally I had to run him down. The skipper saw me coming and started barking orders to the crew. The skippers wife watched us as we passed on the high side, hiked out drinking beers and grinning from ear-to-ear. She yelled back to the skipper "Honey why are we going so slow". Ouch. Ted
MALARKY vs PRACTICALITY
Only occassionaly do I sail on a monohull; which I thoroughly enjoy. Skiming along at 10 knots in a 28' E scow with three other sailors under 1,000 sq. ft. of sail is really fun. But it also weighs a half a ton. Keel boats can't touch it. And a one ton 38' A scow is even faster. But even these boats, that eat keel boats for lunch aren't high performance boats. To consistently sail fast requires skill first and a fast boat second. On inland waters the fastest boats are catamarans. And the fastest among the cats are the newest formula boats, with hulls ranging from seventeen to twenty feet long. They are sailed solo or with a maximum of two. Scows are fast because they have a relatively flat hull designed to "get up." Under the right conditions of good air and minimum chop they come as close to full, prolonged, planing as some dingys. But you don't want to be in a scow on a large inland lake when the waves are running three to six feet. Then they are out of their design element. Cats too, have their limitations and while the new models with their high volume, canted hulls can handle a tremendous amount of heavy water (cat sailors have sailed in 7' to 8' waves); frankly it's really just hanging on when your out in thirty knots on a slippery trampoline that's only 7' by 7' with nothing to hang on to other than the tiller and the side stay. When it really starts to blow nasty all the boats head in; scows first, next the keel boats, folowed by the last the few remaining crazy cat sailors. Every sailboat has its' design limitations. Exceeding a boat's capabilities, is for most boats more a matter of chance. While for cats, going fast and hanging on is more the norm. And by the way cats don't plane, at least not for those of us who sail four or five days a week, ten months a year. Those of you that contend Hobies plane--with all due respect, I don't think so. Of all the cats, until quite recently, Hobiecats with their asymetrical hulls and heavy weight, were the barges of the cat world. Really fun, but not speed demons. Absent hydrofoils, the best of cats whether 17' or 20' all are quite close in terms of speed performance. Twenty footers are faster than seventeens, but not all that much, because new seventtens weigh 300 lbs. and a twenty weighs 400 lbs. Weight makes a tremendous difference. Modern A cats weigh in at 165 lbs; boat, sails, spar, rigging, and all. It's little wonder they sail fast in as little as 2-3 knots when everyone else in laying dead in the water. The new seventeen sports about 350 sq. ft. of sail, while the twenty carries about 520 sq. ft. Both of which utilize the latest designed high aspect, mylar sails, hanging off lightweight carbon spars, all of which minimizes weight aloft. Both the dagger boards as well as the rudders are also high aspect in design and made of light weight carbon. Anybody who tells you they can't turn a cat on a dime hasn't sailed a high performance cat. These boats have an ultra sensitive rudder repsonse that would amaze a Catalina 27 skipper. Catalina's are designed for a pleasing ride, and they deliver. Performance catamarans are designed for speed and they're fast, though bloody uncomfortable after several hours. Cat sailors are also physically much more active; constantling hiking out, and hoisting and dousing the spinnaker by the solo crew member, a few dozen times an afternoon. These high performance machines are fast, but not a one of them planes. Most of the best boats for planing were designed in Australia and are skiffs. They not only plane, some start to fly in as little as 5 or 6 knots. Boats like a Bethwaite designed 49er practically walk on water once they get cranking. One of the biggest problems they have is they get going so fast they have issues with sailing safely through crowed habors like Sydney's. Once you see how much sail they crowd on and watch their 18' hull skim completely free of the water except for the last two or three feet, you'll agree they not only plane, they fly.
Only occassionaly do I sail on a monohull; which I thoroughly enjoy. Skiming along at 10 knots in a 28' E scow with three other sailors under 1,000 sq. ft. of sail is really fun. But it also weighs a half a ton. Keel boats can't touch it. And a one ton 38' A scow is even faster. But even these boats, that eat keel boats for lunch aren't high performance boats. To consistently sail fast requires skill first and a fast boat second. On inland waters the fastest boats are catamarans. And the fastest among the cats are the newest formula boats, with hulls ranging from seventeen to twenty feet long. They are sailed solo or with a maximum of two. Scows are fast because they have a relatively flat hull designed to "get up." Under the right conditions of good air and minimum chop they come as close to full, prolonged, planing as some dingys. But you don't want to be in a scow on a large inland lake when the waves are running three to six feet. Then they are out of their design element. Cats too, have their limitations and while the new models with their high volume, canted hulls can handle a tremendous amount of heavy water (cat sailors have sailed in 7' to 8' waves); frankly it's really just hanging on when your out in thirty knots on a slippery trampoline that's only 7' by 7' with nothing to hang on to other than the tiller and the side stay. When it really starts to blow nasty all the boats head in; scows first, next the keel boats, folowed by the last the few remaining crazy cat sailors. Every sailboat has its' design limitations. Exceeding a boat's capabilities, is for most boats more a matter of chance. While for cats, going fast and hanging on is more the norm. And by the way cats don't plane, at least not for those of us who sail four or five days a week, ten months a year. Those of you that contend Hobies plane--with all due respect, I don't think so. Of all the cats, until quite recently, Hobiecats with their asymetrical hulls and heavy weight, were the barges of the cat world. Really fun, but not speed demons. Absent hydrofoils, the best of cats whether 17' or 20' all are quite close in terms of speed performance. Twenty footers are faster than seventeens, but not all that much, because new seventtens weigh 300 lbs. and a twenty weighs 400 lbs. Weight makes a tremendous difference. Modern A cats weigh in at 165 lbs; boat, sails, spar, rigging, and all. It's little wonder they sail fast in as little as 2-3 knots when everyone else in laying dead in the water. The new seventeen sports about 350 sq. ft. of sail, while the twenty carries about 520 sq. ft. Both of which utilize the latest designed high aspect, mylar sails, hanging off lightweight carbon spars, all of which minimizes weight aloft. Both the dagger boards as well as the rudders are also high aspect in design and made of light weight carbon. Anybody who tells you they can't turn a cat on a dime hasn't sailed a high performance cat. These boats have an ultra sensitive rudder repsonse that would amaze a Catalina 27 skipper. Catalina's are designed for a pleasing ride, and they deliver. Performance catamarans are designed for speed and they're fast, though bloody uncomfortable after several hours. Cat sailors are also physically much more active; constantling hiking out, and hoisting and dousing the spinnaker by the solo crew member, a few dozen times an afternoon. These high performance machines are fast, but not a one of them planes. Most of the best boats for planing were designed in Australia and are skiffs. They not only plane, some start to fly in as little as 5 or 6 knots. Boats like a Bethwaite designed 49er practically walk on water once they get cranking. One of the biggest problems they have is they get going so fast they have issues with sailing safely through crowed habors like Sydney's. Once you see how much sail they crowd on and watch their 18' hull skim completely free of the water except for the last two or three feet, you'll agree they not only plane, they fly.
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