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8 knots in C25
Just two weeks ago, I sailed in a Regatta on the Columbia River. Saw 35 knots of wind (true) on the bay near Astoria, but did not raise the chute that day. On Friday, 7/29, on the last leg, we hit 8 knots surfing off 3-4 foot waves under spinnaker. Of course these speeds were not maintained for long. We snapped the rudder off at the waterline during our final near broach! (These are calibrated km speeds, not GPS as we were fighting a 2+ knot current). My old Tartan 30 hit 10 knots on numerous occasions, under spinnaker as well as reaching with 135 and full main in 30+ knots of wind. Felt like a rock.....
Just two weeks ago, I sailed in a Regatta on the Columbia River. Saw 35 knots of wind (true) on the bay near Astoria, but did not raise the chute that day. On Friday, 7/29, on the last leg, we hit 8 knots surfing off 3-4 foot waves under spinnaker. Of course these speeds were not maintained for long. We snapped the rudder off at the waterline during our final near broach! (These are calibrated km speeds, not GPS as we were fighting a 2+ knot current). My old Tartan 30 hit 10 knots on numerous occasions, under spinnaker as well as reaching with 135 and full main in 30+ knots of wind. Felt like a rock.....
Not quite made it!
The handbook for my Beneteau First 35 states that "in perfect conditions" a speed of 14.1 knots is acheivable! I guess this was written BEFORE we had GPS (1984) so currents and tides could have created an influence. However, with GPS I have recorded 13.2 knots, this lasted for seven hours, and I originally had it verified by a tug that I overtook. When I overtook the tug it was at slack tide, and with 25 knots of wind - the sheets were eased enough that I would not round up. I was impressed, and I have a witness! I suspect that the elongation of the WL on this beamy boat may have something to do with it - get her sailing on her lines, and she will do her best.
The handbook for my Beneteau First 35 states that "in perfect conditions" a speed of 14.1 knots is acheivable! I guess this was written BEFORE we had GPS (1984) so currents and tides could have created an influence. However, with GPS I have recorded 13.2 knots, this lasted for seven hours, and I originally had it verified by a tug that I overtook. When I overtook the tug it was at slack tide, and with 25 knots of wind - the sheets were eased enough that I would not round up. I was impressed, and I have a witness! I suspect that the elongation of the WL on this beamy boat may have something to do with it - get her sailing on her lines, and she will do her best.
Speed
Our Legend 43 is a fairly spritely sailor, but we usually cruise with the drag from a tow generator providing most of our DC juice. We did log three 200-mile days, back to back, one time going from Vanuatu to Oz. Not a pleasant ride; just about shook the boat to pieces, slamming from one wave to another. Winds were from the port quarter at 25 to low 30s. Took an occasional hard leeward roll from waves breaking while we were at the top. Broke the jib halyard and the topping lift for the main. Kind of a mess with just two of us on the boat. I recommend a hard vang for everyone. The tow generator seems to act like a speedbrake at high speeds. Fastest we've ever seen in that configuration was 10.3 knots. Racing our C&C 40 would sometimes see a surge to 12-14 surfing.
Our Legend 43 is a fairly spritely sailor, but we usually cruise with the drag from a tow generator providing most of our DC juice. We did log three 200-mile days, back to back, one time going from Vanuatu to Oz. Not a pleasant ride; just about shook the boat to pieces, slamming from one wave to another. Winds were from the port quarter at 25 to low 30s. Took an occasional hard leeward roll from waves breaking while we were at the top. Broke the jib halyard and the topping lift for the main. Kind of a mess with just two of us on the boat. I recommend a hard vang for everyone. The tow generator seems to act like a speedbrake at high speeds. Fastest we've ever seen in that configuration was 10.3 knots. Racing our C&C 40 would sometimes see a surge to 12-14 surfing.
Standqard/Horizon Speed/log
We have clocked 7 knots on my 1981 Hunter 33, but now I can only measure speed on my GPS. The Standard Horizon Speed/log that came with the boat is &%$@# not working. The instrument is fine but the thru hull transducer is fergufket! and S?H does not have any more. Does anyone know someone who might have a spare transducer for sale?
We have clocked 7 knots on my 1981 Hunter 33, but now I can only measure speed on my GPS. The Standard Horizon Speed/log that came with the boat is &%$@# not working. The instrument is fine but the thru hull transducer is fergufket! and S?H does not have any more. Does anyone know someone who might have a spare transducer for sale?
speed ODay 302
ODay 302, 12 knots on Signet Digital Knotmeter. Down wind, 8 mile Lake in Kansas 30 knot windy, water depth of lake average about 28 feet. 135 Genoa open full. Surfing down short steep waves. jeff lane aka sailorshrink
ODay 302, 12 knots on Signet Digital Knotmeter. Down wind, 8 mile Lake in Kansas 30 knot windy, water depth of lake average about 28 feet. 135 Genoa open full. Surfing down short steep waves. jeff lane aka sailorshrink
Danger?
I keep reading that broaching is the result of going too fast in following seas causing the helm to loose control of the boat and the boat turns the beam to the oncomming waves. How is it that some/many can surf the waves with no problem and others broach? What's the trick and how safe is it?
I keep reading that broaching is the result of going too fast in following seas causing the helm to loose control of the boat and the boat turns the beam to the oncomming waves. How is it that some/many can surf the waves with no problem and others broach? What's the trick and how safe is it?
Fast is relative
We had our Hunter 44 DS up to 8.7 kts on GPS in 17 kt wind with 10 people aboard in June in Santa Monica Bay on a broad reach. I though we were zooming along. Sails probably weren't trimmed perfectly and we were nicely heeled but we had fun! Any time we get up to half the speed of the wind we're ecstatic!
We had our Hunter 44 DS up to 8.7 kts on GPS in 17 kt wind with 10 people aboard in June in Santa Monica Bay on a broad reach. I though we were zooming along. Sails probably weren't trimmed perfectly and we were nicely heeled but we had fun! Any time we get up to half the speed of the wind we're ecstatic!
Not too many multihull responses here
One of the keys to the speed of a multihull is the individual hull's length/beam ratio. They are typically so skinny that the "square of waterline" rule has little bearing on their overall performance. Their bow waves can be so small, and their sail plans so powerful, that their speed is more limited by weight, volume, and surface area. Two examples: I once crossed Tampa Bay (12 miles) in 45 minutes on a 27' Stilleto, and we were just doing a delivery. Racing a 38' Newick Tri along the north coast of Cuba, the committee boat couldn't keep up with us and had us record our own finish time at where we thought the finish line should be. We were on a beamy spinnaker run and saw continuos speeds of 14-20 knots.
One of the keys to the speed of a multihull is the individual hull's length/beam ratio. They are typically so skinny that the "square of waterline" rule has little bearing on their overall performance. Their bow waves can be so small, and their sail plans so powerful, that their speed is more limited by weight, volume, and surface area. Two examples: I once crossed Tampa Bay (12 miles) in 45 minutes on a 27' Stilleto, and we were just doing a delivery. Racing a 38' Newick Tri along the north coast of Cuba, the committee boat couldn't keep up with us and had us record our own finish time at where we thought the finish line should be. We were on a beamy spinnaker run and saw continuos speeds of 14-20 knots.
Catalina to LA Harbor . . .
Catalina Island to LA harbor entrance - 1 hour, 15 min. NACRA 5.8 catamaran, the wind came uo as we cleared the island - never shifted or varied, perfect wind on a reach so we flew back in. My buddy and I just hung out on the trap wires the whole way back. 'Course I was younger then & it was a real lucky day with the wind & a flat sea.
Catalina Island to LA harbor entrance - 1 hour, 15 min. NACRA 5.8 catamaran, the wind came uo as we cleared the island - never shifted or varied, perfect wind on a reach so we flew back in. My buddy and I just hung out on the trap wires the whole way back. 'Course I was younger then & it was a real lucky day with the wind & a flat sea.
Surfing counts ?!?!?
Since surfing is mentioned in the opening comments, I assume it counts in speed sailing. We were doing a race on Monterey Bay in a Wilderness 30SX. The Spinnaker run was from the outer bay into Moss Landing with 25+kt winds and a following sea of 12 - 15 ft swells. With 4 crew behind the tiller and trimmers as far back as they could get, we regularly clocked 17kts and topped out at 19+ kts in a most hair raising ride. We risked over-running the chute or plowing the next swell and broaching or rounding up. (damned fool racers!) But good driving and constant trimming (and incredible luck!) got us in without breaking the boat or injuring any of the crew. The really amazing sight was watching the big-boats, Santa Cruz 40's and 50's and Olson 40's running away from us and nearly disappearing in the distance!!
Since surfing is mentioned in the opening comments, I assume it counts in speed sailing. We were doing a race on Monterey Bay in a Wilderness 30SX. The Spinnaker run was from the outer bay into Moss Landing with 25+kt winds and a following sea of 12 - 15 ft swells. With 4 crew behind the tiller and trimmers as far back as they could get, we regularly clocked 17kts and topped out at 19+ kts in a most hair raising ride. We risked over-running the chute or plowing the next swell and broaching or rounding up. (damned fool racers!) But good driving and constant trimming (and incredible luck!) got us in without breaking the boat or injuring any of the crew. The really amazing sight was watching the big-boats, Santa Cruz 40's and 50's and Olson 40's running away from us and nearly disappearing in the distance!!
that's because they're not displacement
hulls. That hull speed theory was determined back in the 17th century for those heavy wooden sailing ships. Multihulls are not displacement vessels. They are planing vessels. Their hulls are designed to be most effecient when running on top of the water. So the waterline thing means nothing. Asymetric catamaran hulls, such as those on smaller Hobies and Prindles, were an attempt to control sideslip without the necessity of daggerboards. The goal being to make them easy to sail off the beach, through the surf, without the risk of daggerboards striking the bottom. The hulls are flat on the outside and curved on the inside which provides a winglike lifting force when the leeward hull is submerged and the windward hull is flying. On larger catatmarans, say 18 feet and up, the asymetric hull becomes very ineffecient for sailing vessels.
hulls. That hull speed theory was determined back in the 17th century for those heavy wooden sailing ships. Multihulls are not displacement vessels. They are planing vessels. Their hulls are designed to be most effecient when running on top of the water. So the waterline thing means nothing. Asymetric catamaran hulls, such as those on smaller Hobies and Prindles, were an attempt to control sideslip without the necessity of daggerboards. The goal being to make them easy to sail off the beach, through the surf, without the risk of daggerboards striking the bottom. The hulls are flat on the outside and curved on the inside which provides a winglike lifting force when the leeward hull is submerged and the windward hull is flying. On larger catatmarans, say 18 feet and up, the asymetric hull becomes very ineffecient for sailing vessels.
Speedfreak
Hi all, I'm the bowman for SWIMMART, a sponsored 27' Stiletto Catamaran. At 2200lbs, in 15+kts and lumpy seas in the Gulf of Mexico I've put up 18.7kts by GPS. The Captain, 6 time Stiletto National Champion, Mike Speth, put up over 20 on several occasions. The picture is during the fifth race of the 2003 Stiletto Nationals In Sarasota FL. Doing the high teens there....Crew Erik Macklin of Hunter Marine and James Mills, afterguard.
Hi all, I'm the bowman for SWIMMART, a sponsored 27' Stiletto Catamaran. At 2200lbs, in 15+kts and lumpy seas in the Gulf of Mexico I've put up 18.7kts by GPS. The Captain, 6 time Stiletto National Champion, Mike Speth, put up over 20 on several occasions. The picture is during the fifth race of the 2003 Stiletto Nationals In Sarasota FL. Doing the high teens there....Crew Erik Macklin of Hunter Marine and James Mills, afterguard.
Cat is the way to go
A catamaran is the way to go for the speed demons of sailing. I now sail a 25' monohull however at 16 my father brother and I built a 16' cat from a Glen-L designs. The boat was fiberglass on marine plywood and although it wasn't as light as a Hobie Cat it had daggerboards and would blow by a Hobie in heavier winds. You knew you were in a groove when the hull to the weather came out of the water, the wires would start to hum, the ride was incredibly smooth and the wake behind us look similar to a power boat. At times we challenged power boats, we would sail amongst the yacht clubbers and leave them looking like they were standing still. The point could point into the wind much better which eliminated some of the need to tack. I note now that catamarans are becoming incredibly popular with power boat services such as the services in Boston Harbor for commuters or the service to Martha's Vineyard from New Bedford Harbor. They have less drag, are more stable and don't bob side to side and get you to your destination quicker. Those are the pros, now that I am a monohull sailor I realize some of the cons of catarmarans. The big one is that they are difficult to come about and can pitchpole (though I never had that happen). Smaller cats can easily capsize and though they have Farrari like speed, relatively speaking, their handling is more like an Edsel. My 25' sloop turns on a dime and reacts to the helm almost instantaneously. You have to put much more work into the helm of a cat and turning is not nearly as quick. Also, the chance of capsizing my boat is quite remote.
A catamaran is the way to go for the speed demons of sailing. I now sail a 25' monohull however at 16 my father brother and I built a 16' cat from a Glen-L designs. The boat was fiberglass on marine plywood and although it wasn't as light as a Hobie Cat it had daggerboards and would blow by a Hobie in heavier winds. You knew you were in a groove when the hull to the weather came out of the water, the wires would start to hum, the ride was incredibly smooth and the wake behind us look similar to a power boat. At times we challenged power boats, we would sail amongst the yacht clubbers and leave them looking like they were standing still. The point could point into the wind much better which eliminated some of the need to tack. I note now that catamarans are becoming incredibly popular with power boat services such as the services in Boston Harbor for commuters or the service to Martha's Vineyard from New Bedford Harbor. They have less drag, are more stable and don't bob side to side and get you to your destination quicker. Those are the pros, now that I am a monohull sailor I realize some of the cons of catarmarans. The big one is that they are difficult to come about and can pitchpole (though I never had that happen). Smaller cats can easily capsize and though they have Farrari like speed, relatively speaking, their handling is more like an Edsel. My 25' sloop turns on a dime and reacts to the helm almost instantaneously. You have to put much more work into the helm of a cat and turning is not nearly as quick. Also, the chance of capsizing my boat is quite remote.
hull speed
I have an o'day 37 not the quickest or slowest out there but making a passage last oct. between block island and norfolk we had a front come through and with 35kts of wind we were doing 12kts on the gps with a full main glad we were going down wind. On the other hand when we raced on a hobie 33 the norm was 10-15kts of boat speed with a lot less wind
I have an o'day 37 not the quickest or slowest out there but making a passage last oct. between block island and norfolk we had a front come through and with 35kts of wind we were doing 12kts on the gps with a full main glad we were going down wind. On the other hand when we raced on a hobie 33 the norm was 10-15kts of boat speed with a lot less wind
It's a rush
The calculated hull speed on my Oceanis 281 is 6.6 knots (7.6 mph). I have had the boat to 7.3 kts and 7.1 kts this summer. Both times on a beam reach with about 20 knot winds. had both the 135 genoa and main (in-mast) furled to about 50%. I usually keep my speed reading in MPH 'cause it looks cooler to guests. To all those that frown at in-mast furling because of reduced main size, I concede that it may hurt a little in light air but once you start getting into some real wind and have to reef, in-mast furling gives superior sail control and helps balance the boat for max performance.
The calculated hull speed on my Oceanis 281 is 6.6 knots (7.6 mph). I have had the boat to 7.3 kts and 7.1 kts this summer. Both times on a beam reach with about 20 knot winds. had both the 135 genoa and main (in-mast) furled to about 50%. I usually keep my speed reading in MPH 'cause it looks cooler to guests. To all those that frown at in-mast furling because of reduced main size, I concede that it may hurt a little in light air but once you start getting into some real wind and have to reef, in-mast furling gives superior sail control and helps balance the boat for max performance.
Memories
Several years ago, memory fades with old age. I had a Prindle 16 Catamaran. I had meant to sail south during the Columbus Day Reggata and join friends who actually took part in the race. Problems arose and I didn't get out on the water with my friend Dell until almost noon. What a day for sailing the wind was out of the ESE for a perfect reach down to Elliot Key. We literally flew all the way down, one hull just barely lifted out of the water sails pefectly balanced so we didn't fly too high in the puffs, we incredibly made it to Feather Bed Banks as the finishing boats were stll slipping past the Judges boat. Plenty of time to party , even with the late start. I have no idea of the speed as I didn't carry an sort of instruments on such a wet boat. I know its 19 nautical miles on the charts and we made it in under an hour. But I remember it distinctly 20 years later. Another felling of speed was on my friend Dicks Mac 26 pop top with centerboard. This is from the days before water ballast. I remember the center board cable humming as we hovered at around eight Knots. A real feeling of speed and exhileration. Ah memories! I got to get out sailing again.
Several years ago, memory fades with old age. I had a Prindle 16 Catamaran. I had meant to sail south during the Columbus Day Reggata and join friends who actually took part in the race. Problems arose and I didn't get out on the water with my friend Dell until almost noon. What a day for sailing the wind was out of the ESE for a perfect reach down to Elliot Key. We literally flew all the way down, one hull just barely lifted out of the water sails pefectly balanced so we didn't fly too high in the puffs, we incredibly made it to Feather Bed Banks as the finishing boats were stll slipping past the Judges boat. Plenty of time to party , even with the late start. I have no idea of the speed as I didn't carry an sort of instruments on such a wet boat. I know its 19 nautical miles on the charts and we made it in under an hour. But I remember it distinctly 20 years later. Another felling of speed was on my friend Dicks Mac 26 pop top with centerboard. This is from the days before water ballast. I remember the center board cable humming as we hovered at around eight Knots. A real feeling of speed and exhileration. Ah memories! I got to get out sailing again.
Speed....
I know you don't buy a sailboat to compete with power boats, but sailing your boat as fast as the conditions will safely allow is what sailing is all about ... at least to me. Having said that, I do throttle back on the trim and heel angle when I have non-sailing friends aboard and notice how white their knuckles are.... Fastest I've gotten my Hunter 28.5 to go is a bit over 8 kts on a nice beam reach with relatively flat seas. It's a rush.
I know you don't buy a sailboat to compete with power boats, but sailing your boat as fast as the conditions will safely allow is what sailing is all about ... at least to me. Having said that, I do throttle back on the trim and heel angle when I have non-sailing friends aboard and notice how white their knuckles are.... Fastest I've gotten my Hunter 28.5 to go is a bit over 8 kts on a nice beam reach with relatively flat seas. It's a rush.
Cat is the way to go, or....
windsurfer. I'm not sure, but I think the world speed record is still held by a windsurfer. And while there are some specialized single-tack/single-point-of-sail boats that may have caught the record in the past, the record-breaking windsurfers are normal windsurfers. Of course, is a windsurfer really a "boat"?
windsurfer. I'm not sure, but I think the world speed record is still held by a windsurfer. And while there are some specialized single-tack/single-point-of-sail boats that may have caught the record in the past, the record-breaking windsurfers are normal windsurfers. Of course, is a windsurfer really a "boat"?
Cat is the way to go, or... reply
I beg to differ, I believe the fastest sailboat was a long and specialized trimaran looking craft. It's hulls were extremely narrow and broke the record just a few feet off shore. As far as surfboards being boats, I imagine you could classify anything crafted to float by human hands a boat however, sailing a surf board across an ocean is a near to impossible task given that the skipper needs to hold the sail up at all times. I realize that there are hybrids but then they become full blown boats!
I beg to differ, I believe the fastest sailboat was a long and specialized trimaran looking craft. It's hulls were extremely narrow and broke the record just a few feet off shore. As far as surfboards being boats, I imagine you could classify anything crafted to float by human hands a boat however, sailing a surf board across an ocean is a near to impossible task given that the skipper needs to hold the sail up at all times. I realize that there are hybrids but then they become full blown boats!
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