spec'ing new turnbuckles

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njl

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May 30, 2011
64
Westsail 32 NYC
I'm looking to replace my closed body turnbuckles with open body turnbuckles. The ones I have are toggle to toggle, and I need to replace the t-bolts also as they are not forged but screwed. As I understand it, that is no good, so I need to replace the whole assembly.

I took initial measurements. The wire is 5/16 inch 1x19 SS and has norseman end fittings labelled "3/8" which I assume to be the pin size.

When I look up Hayn open body toggle to toggle turnbuckles, the ones that are supposed to match 5/16 inch wire have a pin size of 5/8 inch and the 3/8 inch pins go with 1/4 inch wire.

I'm planning to buy a caliper guage to double check the measurements, but wondered if the more experienced might have some advice.

On the same subject, is toggle to toggle better than eye to eye turnbuckles paired with properly sized shackles?
 

LloydB

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Jan 15, 2006
927
Macgregor 22 Silverton
Sometimes a tape measure and a crescent wrench will save a time and a trip back into the shop to get a number within 1/16" on round stuff.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
you may want to contact SECO South in Largo Fl and talk to them about your rigging...they are very helpful and a pleasure to do business with.....and they are are very reasonable in there pricing as well...and it will help you to say that i (woody in Georgia) told you to contact them....it is some thing i told them i would do as long as they are there ....i was very impressed with there service and hospitality.....

regards

woody
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I would find a chanderly that has a rigging department and discuss this with them. Certainly in NYC there must be some very good riggers you could contact.
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,736
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I would rather find someone I could talk to face to face as opposed to a rigging company half way across the country.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Your selection all depends on what the wire connection to the mast configuration is.

Most 'good' riggers will use a swaged eye connection for the upper mast to wire connection ... (if thats possible), replace the closed 'barrel' turnbuckle with an 'open frame' type, etc.
The bottom connection to replace the 5/8" T bolt should involve using a 1/2" Ø forged T-bolt connected to strap eyes ... the proper sized 1/2 strap eye, and not a 1/2 Tbolt assembled to a 5/8" strap eye to minimize 'flex' for 'fatigue' purposes. If you use a 1/2" Tbolt on a 5/8" strap eye the strap eye will unduly 'flex' and will lead to short life and fatigue.
I 'believe' that you can use both 5/16 or 3/8 wire in the Norseman ... all depends on the size of the insert. However, you have a WS 32, built probably in the mid 1980s or earlier and if there are Norseman fittings used, it means that someone cut away swaged connections and added the Norseman to the then 'old' wire. Your OEM rigging is at least 15-25 years old ..... and if you plan to sail this boat hard and long I'd recommend that at least the capshrouds, BOBSTAY, headstay and backstay be entirely replaced with *all* new ...
On a cutter rig If you lose a bobstay, the whole damn rig comes down. If that lower bobstay connector is those damned machined together T-bolts and with the constant dipping of that lower connection continually into salt water .... the lower bobstay connection WILL be the connection in the most vulnerable condition for 'failure' .... check out that BOBSTAY and its connections, first. If the bobstay and its connections are 'shot', also remove/inspect/replace the BOW-EYE fitting ... any visual sign of 'rust weepage' on a bobstay means ---- crevice corrosion .... "warning Will Robinson, warning, warning".
.... and then there are the chainplates.

Check the bowsprit's cranse collar for fatigue cracks especially near any of the 'welded on' lugs ... take it off and take it to an 'automotive machine shop' or machine shop that does specialty stainless steel fabrication ... and have it 'magnafluxed' to insure that this vital rigging component is still 'healthy'. Any localized 'dulling' of the surface on a cranse and near any 'weld affected zone', usually means that the cranse has 'crystalized' and is getting ready to 'fall apart' from fatigue. If the cranse needs to be replaced, PM me and I will supply a dwg. of a much better FATIGUE RESISTANT design.

I 'think' the rigging on the WS32 was well overbuilt ... with a safety factor of 4:1 using 14,000 psi wire .... so that wire and rigging fatigue is well lessened. Nevertheless, in the very fine print of most insurance policies nowadays, youll find to keep the policy in effect ... "rigging entirely changed out every 10-12 years OR rigging failure and consequential damages are excluded and not covered ... .

Get an experienced rigger who actually races sailboats or who actually sails long distances ... many dont and then simply dont KNOW what to look for.
Replace the most vulnerable first in sequence if youre on a tight budget: bobstay -->, Head & backstays, --> caps shrouds ... --> then forestay and aux. lowers, and 'finally' the intermediate stays (or replace or them with amsteel/dyneema running backstays).
Your WS can easily sail in F9-10 conditions and survive .. IF the rigging is intact.

What was the name of this boat when you bought her? If the boat's name was "East Snai" with homeport of NYC" ... PM me.

;-)
 
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