Speaking of "Fresh Water" flushing.... How?

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rfrye1

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Jun 15, 2004
589
Hunter H376 San Diego
In a previous post discussing the merits of different marine heads/toilets, a few folks mentioned they have converted to fresh water for flushing, SOmething I'd like to do. But know they are some "do's & don'ts" to keep the fresh water "fresh" (no backflows).

How have some of you plumbed into your system to keep things separated?

Happy New Year.
Thanks. Bob
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,650
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
The Question I Have is .....................

rfrye1 said:
In a previous post discussing the merits of different marine heads/toilets, a few folks mentioned they have converted to fresh water for flushing, SOmething I'd like to do. But know they are some "do's & don'ts" to keep the fresh water "fresh" (no backflows).

How have some of you plumbed into your system to keep things separated?

Happy New Year.
Thanks. Bob
Click to expand

..................... WHY ? ? ? ?

Many people here have spoken of changing over so I would imagine there's some merit in doing this, but why ? I'm in the dark here :confused: but what else's new. It's always dark here when you're looking at continuous rain until the end of April.

Other than having to carrying extra water and checking the backflow preventer every year, what're the advantages.

I'm always looking for new projects ! ! !
 
Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,695
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The biggest 'don't' is to not connect your source for flush water to the boat's potable water system. The reason is simple - The only thing(s) which prevent mixing of the two are the flexible and prone to breakdown values in the toilet or backflow preventer. If you have separate tanks for potable water, isolate one for dedicated use as flush water. If you don't have separate tanks which can be isolated, install one.

As to why people prefer fresh water flushing, the reason is simple. Stagnant salt water (which sits idle in the head and plumbing between uses) has all sorts of critters which die and stink when they do. That odor is often confused with a problem in the head or holding tank.
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,650
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
On Our Boat ............................

Don S/V ILLusion said:
Stagnant salt water (which sits idle in the head and plumbing between uses) has all sorts of critters which die and stink when they do. That odor is often confused with a problem in the head or holding tank.
Click to expand
.................. that odor is always associated with the last person to use the head, and particularly when they're a newbie :eek:.
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
as for the fresh water to head thing......you never hook up a head to fresh water tanks.....what you do do is to hook up your head water pickup to your sink drain hose with a tee just above the through hull sea cock valve.....when you use the head pump put a stopper in the sink to insure you get water from the outside water source..... IE lake or oceian....when you want to flush with fresh water through the head you close the sea cock valve and poor fresh water in the head sink...then you have cleared out all the critters in the water in your heads pump and intake lines.......now i am quoting Peggy Halls recommendation here from memory so if i stated it incorrectly don't blame her....

regards

woody
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
stu..... you made mention in you reference artical... of how the water would come in stopper or no stopper after changing to the shower drain sea cock ....could it be because there is a pump on the shower drain hose and acting like a stopper or maybe all the water lines involved are below the water line excepting the head pick up hose....

regards

woody
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
woody, they're both below the water line, but the top of the sink is above. Go figure. It works.

For those of you who haven't seen this, it includes lots of Peggie's tips.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
It depends on how low in the water the sink drain system is, and how much higher the hose plumbing runs to the head pump. I did the sink drain thing per Peggy's advice, but if the stopper is not in the sink, the head sucks air when trying to flush the dirty water.. Stopper in, the sea water is sucked in. Seems the thru-hull fitting is long, plus the cutoff valve and tee make the water path rise above sea level. Next time I haul out, i'm going to cut the thruhull as short as it can be and still have the shutoff on it.
 
shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
8,008
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
We just keep a jug of fresh water by the head and use it to flush rather than pumping water in from the head intake. It works pretty well. We refill it from the head sink. An additional benefit is that we turn over the fresh water tank more often limiting stagnation and growth of micro-organisms.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Andrew, not quite. My link earlier covers a lot of Peggie's Greatest Hits, and yours is one of them. On page one of that link, she notes:

"Stagnant sea water trapped in the head intake is a major source of TEMPORARY odor...odor that goes away as soon as the first flush flushes all the stagnant water out of the intake and pump. Teeing the intake line into the head sink drain line is an excellent solution, 'cuz it provides a means providing clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the WHOLE system before it can stagnate. Unfortunately just pouring fresh water into the bowl doesn't work very well...'cuz bowl contents aren't recirculated through the intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl (thank goodness!)....whatever is in the bowl only goes out the bottom part of the pump and down the discharge line."

If you want to use up your fresh water, just keep the seacock closed.
 
RAD

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
I have mine plumbed with a two way valve in case were cruising and need to conserve fresh water......in ten years I've never had to switch over to salt water
 
Ralph Johnstone

Ralph Johnstone

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Jan 4, 2006
7,650
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Far, Far, Far ..............................

woodster said:
when you want to flush with fresh water through the head you close the sea cock valve and poor fresh water in the head sink...then you have cleared out all the critters in the water in your heads pump and intake lines.......now i am quoting Peggy Halls recommendation here from memory so if i stated it incorrectly don't blame her....

regards

woody
Click to expand
......................... far more sense than having a separate fresh water flushing system. Flush with sea water and a final rinse with fresh water from the sink drain.

The only downside is "no more stench when the newbie makes the first flush" :D
 
S

Steve Dion

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Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
To continue on Stu's comments. Peggie also recommended that the fresh water flush should only be connected to a pressurized water system. Personally I would never hook it up that way.

Put a bypass system on the intake line and flush with fresh water after your outting.
 
onecoolair

onecoolair

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Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
Why not just use the K.I.S.S. Principle! Just Keep bowl in dry mode and use the Shower Head.:doh: And always remember to flush several bowels of fresh water thru the system leaving no poop in the lines.:puke:
 
MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

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May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
we use to just add water from the shower head (flexable) for the last fill/pump.
 
Mike B

Mike B

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Apr 15, 2007
1,013
Beneteau 43 Baltimore, MD
If you tap into your fresh water system you'll need to use a check valve that prevents backflow of toilet water into your tanks. We have electric toilets which required the installation of a solenoid valve. Between the solenoid and the check valves, plus the fact there's little to no chance of water backflow based on how the toilet is plumbed, I'm comfortable with the freshness of our fresh water. BTW electric toilets make effiecient use of water so we haven't noticed any issues with water consumption. The lack of odor from sea water is a real plus.
Mike
 
gpd955

gpd955

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Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
We use the sink drain method for our Wilcox-Crittenden electric head. It works very well and there is no way for backflow to get into the fresh water tank. There's a Y-valve under the sink that we can switch over as needed for draining of the sink. The sea water intake for the head is sealed up (done by PO) and I plan on reversing that in order to have the option for water conservation when out for an extended time. However it is low on the priority list.

Our head never has an odor...unless the First Mate has used it, but that's another story....and it makes it easy to winterize the system. If I get down to the boat this week I will take a few pics.
 
seadaddler

seadaddler

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Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Fresh Water

I added a sprayer hose like used on some home sinks to under sink fresh water and have next to the head and use it for flushing when sailing local aand use salt water flushing when out on longer cruises away from docks and also have the sink draining switch over for flushing out the salt water flushing part of the head too,I also have a vent filter and never have any odors,using fresh water keeps maintance down for the PHII and keeps odors away too.
Nick
 
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