Spar supplier?

[patrscoe]

After looking through a old sailing log, I found out that in 1989, the first owner of our recently purchased 84' S2 11 cut the mast down by 30" due to a near by bridge. It was disclosed to me and I never notice the difference and perhaps just leaving it alone would save a lot of money and time that I could put some where else but now that I do know, it is driving me crazy.

It appears that they cut the top of the mast as the lower shrouds have not been modified along with the boom attachment and mainsail track.

I want to look into providing a 30" splice at the bottom, modify the spreader and lower shroud locations (move them down 30"), modify my roller furling, alter my sails and replace the upper shrouds. I know this procedure can be done successfully and what would save more time if this could be done towards the top of the mast but I am afraid of failure and I would never be able to see it.

Does anyone know a spar supplier that has the mast profile for the S2 11.0?
I'm in the process of contacting Rig Rite.

Has anyone removed the mast and have already taken measurements of shroud and spreader locations? I don't want to completely assume that they do not modify these locations so I want to double check the measurements.


Thanks!

 

[sailcruiser]

After looking through a old sailing log, I found out that in 1989, the first owner of our recently purchased 84' S2 11 cut the mast down by 30" due to a near by bridge. It was disclosed to me and I never notice the difference and perhaps just leaving it alone would save a lot of money and time that I could put some where else but now that I do know, it is driving me crazy.

It appears that they cut the top of the mast as the lower shrouds have not been modified along with the boom attachment and mainsail track.

I want to look into providing a 30" splice at the bottom, modify the spreader and lower shroud locations (move them down 30"), modify my roller furling, alter my sails and replace the upper shrouds. I know this procedure can be done successfully and what would save more time if this could be done towards the top of the mast but I am afraid of failure and I would never be able to see it.

Does anyone know a spar supplier that has the mast profile for the S2 11.0?
I'm in the process of contacting Rig Rite.

Has anyone removed the mast and have already taken measurements of shroud and spreader locations? I don't want to completely assume that they do not modify these locations so I want to double check the measurements.

Thanks!

Have you downloaded the 11.0 owners manual? They have published standing rigging shroud details. I do know that the 11.0 has a two piece mast. It caught me by surprise until I did some reading to find most boats have to do the same thing. It has something to do with the available length of extrusions. SC

 

[sailcruiser]

After looking through a old sailing log, I found out that in 1989, the first owner of our recently purchased 84' S2 11 cut the mast down by 30" due to a near by bridge. It was disclosed to me and I never notice the difference and perhaps just leaving it alone would save a lot of money and time that I could put some where else but now that I do know, it is driving me crazy.

It appears that they cut the top of the mast as the lower shrouds have not been modified along with the boom attachment and mainsail track.

I want to look into providing a 30" splice at the bottom, modify the spreader and lower shroud locations (move them down 30"), modify my roller furling, alter my sails and replace the upper shrouds. I know this procedure can be done successfully and what would save more time if this could be done towards the top of the mast but I am afraid of failure and I would never be able to see it.

Does anyone know a spar supplier that has the mast profile for the S2 11.0?
I'm in the process of contacting Rig Rite.

Has anyone removed the mast and have already taken measurements of shroud and spreader locations? I don't want to completely assume that they do not modify these locations so I want to double check the measurements.

Thanks!

http://web.mac.com/overholtzer/impliedconsent/Documents_files/S2 11point0 owners manual.pdf


There is a company listed out of Chicago that can probably point you in the right direction if still around. The above manual is from an '81.

HTH. SC

 

[BobM]

sounds...

...expensive to fix. New rigging...mast repair...new sails...new furler...$20K easy. Sure its worth it? Might be cheaper to buy another boat. Are you having performance issues? Investing in a full roach / battened main and bigger genoa would be far cheaper.

 

[jackhararis]

I replaced the mast on my S2. I used Rig Rite and they provided me the exact same mast. Trace a pattern of the end of the mast. Then go to Rig Rite's web site and you can match up the same pattern. Then call them and get a price on a piece the length you need. They gave me the name of a Rig Rite dealer in Kemah, Texas. They shipped it there and I picked it up. That was the cheapest and easiest way for me.

 

[patrscoe]

Bobm,
It is not quite $20k.
I had a rigging company price up the following - extending the roller furling, replace upper shrouds, install the sleeve and mast extrusion and inspect the lower shrouds. $2,600. New main (I was planning to get a new one in the spring) $2,320, modify the genoa $580. Budget total $5,500. I priced up a new mast (extrusion) $2,439 plus freight.
At this point, the way the S2 11.0 mast was design, it will be hard to properly splice within a local rigging boatyard.

Although it is not $20k, still not sure if it is worth it but I am learning a lot about masts and their design. Interesting is that half of the rigging companies said that it must be done at the bottom and the other half said it should be done at the top where it was cut. Mast extrusions come in 41' stock lengths and that most sailboats will have a splice, you just can't see it.

The most reasonable option is to clean up the main and for the next season, sail her for the full season and the decide from there. If I am not happy, then I will invest in a new mast. Unless anyone has a extra mast in their backyard.... probably not.

 

[patrscoe]

Also... for info on 11.0 spars.

Schaefer Marine fabricated the masts in 1975 - 1978, Hall Spars started in 1980 but stopped in 1982 and only fabricated the boom from their after. Offshore and another fabricator took over. The 11.0 mast was a performance mast extrusion not a cruising mast which makes it very hard to find. Hall has a similar profiles instock but not exact. That means they need to purchase 5,000 to 10,000 lbs min for additional stock from their extrusion fabricator (which is not cost prohibitive). Whatever spar manufacturer you have, has the die, then they have the patent on it and no else has the "exact" profile, similar but not exact.
At least that is what I have learned but talking to about 6 spar companies and 3 rigging companies.
That is the problem I'm running in to which is making me rethink this project.

 

[BobM]

I understand your concern

I wouldn't want to lose two feet from the top of my mast. There is more wind up there. However, I don't think it would actually affect performance much. If you were class racing a bunch of 11.0's you might notice it. Other than that, new sails that fit the boat as is will make a much bigger difference in performance in my experience. In terms of adding value to the boat, a repower is worth considering. However, my 30 year old 2QM15 runs great, so what's the point? I have plenty of other things to work on.

 

[patrscoe]

What is a little upsetting is that the previous owner knew that the mast was shorten but never told me. I found the information in an old maintenance log book and the survey did not pick up on the mast shortening since it was done at the top. I think I would of still purchased her, just would of had a better bargaining tool.

 

[Bron]

Look at the 11.0 on yacht world that Bob M posted. If it has a mast and sails, it might be the cheapest way to get a mast and a couple of sails. If nearby, it might solve your problems easily and quickly.

Bron

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Did you ever as the guy who cut your mast short if he still has the section that he chopped off? If so, you could use that and splice it back in. Of course you would then have to make a longer mainsail (which he might still have too - the original, I mean) and lengthen the forestay, backstay and shrounds. I assume he just cut the top of the mast off, or was it on the bottom? Certainly if you are racing, you have a big disadvantage and handicap numbers will not be accurate. I imagine you have thought of all of this.

 

[patrscoe]

Bill,
No, I have not tried contacting him. Good idea.
That is the thing, I would like to race her a 4 or 5 times a year as I did with our previous sailboat but of course most of our sailing is cruising.

I can't believe how hard this has become. I felt like I have emailed and called so many spar companies has it is all contingent on the exact extrusion. Of course they can custom my a 30" piece and a splice for about the same amount for a new mast.
Very frustrating. Giving up on this project for a while.

 

[mark_swart]

If you aren't in a hurry, maybe you should continue your research to find any other boats that used the same extrusion. Then keep an eye on ebay, craigslist and even sailboatowners.com for one of them or another 11.0. Hurricanes happen, boats get old, neglected, parted out, etc. I'll bet within a year a suitable one will turn up that someone just wants to get rid of. And also, if you get the length right, even if you switched to a different profile mast I would think it would only require a different step to make it fit. Just a thought.

 

[patrscoe]

Good idea Mark, that may be my best option. Thanks

 

[CaptDanS]

If you are going to race PHRF, you can ask the local PHRF committee to have your handicap adjusted due to the smaller sail area.

 

[BobM]

Your 11.0 is, was and even with the mast 4 feet longer...a cruiser. It just isn't worth it to make this improvement for the small potential gain...perhaps a couple of tenths of a knot under certain conditions. Spend a couple of grand on a nice feathering three blade prop. You will probably get more out of it under sail and motor.

 

[westport11]

You can also try a call to the very wonderful Hall Spars. We added a rigid vang to our 1981 11.0A S2 through Hall Spars and that has been great as well. By the way, we also recently had our mast refinished and awl-gripped. It was purely cosmetic, a but along with our new sails, the trusty gal is really sparkling.

 

[sailcruiser]

You can also try a call to the very wonderful Hall Spars. We added a rigid vang to our 1981 11.0A S2 through Hall Spars and that has been great as well. By the way, we also recently had our mast refinished and awl-gripped. It was purely cosmetic, a but along with our new sails, the trusty gal is really sparkling.

West would love to see a photo if you have one. I have contemplated that but it's further down the list. SC