South pacific single handed explorer seeking advice

[PEBI]

Hi my first post on these forums. I want to build my own boat. But I'm also considering upgrading a manfactured sail yacht if I can find a worthy one. To cross the south pacific (I'm not racing) around the globe 55th parelle. I have a budget of 50k canadian. Not much. But that's what I got to work with. I'm looking for advice sailing with route planning from vanouver island down through the pacific to the south pacific. Any ideas would be great. Or some reference to a good book too. I realized I could build a 20 foot marine aluminum boat within budget or a 20 to 30 foot plywood epoxy build. This isn't a fake post I really intend on.

I looked at a boat on yachtworld a: 1988 Tillotson-Pearson Freedom 36. But.... Not sure if it can handle the winds experienced on the south pacific. But for single handed it appears well built. And it has a carbon fiber self tacking jib. Nice right?

Then I saw this french boat: 1984 Elite 32. Looks tough right? Good self righting. Displacement. Etc.

Either I build a boat or buy one second hand. But either way. I want to replace the sails, electronics, and all that has to be in my budget. I'm inclined on buying used equipment except for sails.

 

[dLj]

Looks like you first posted over on Cruisers Forum, no?

Seems you have two very separate questions: 1) should you build your own boat for your budget? 2) Routing advice starting in Vancouver and running down into the South Pacific.

Two very different topics.

On the first question - I first have to ask when do you wish to begin the trip? If you want to begin sailing in a decade or so in the future then building a boat could be an option, but generally I would say that's a poor way to go at this point as you are not a seasoned sailor. Now you could build from plans (I don't know where to get them) for a Phil Bolger designed boat similar to what Annie Hill and Pete (don't remember his last name) did. I think the boat was called a Badger? Junk rigged - fairly easy to build and a seaworthy boat. But do expect to spend a serious amount of time building. It would be foolish to think you can design and build your own boat for such a trip.

But I think it's a better plan to buy a second hand boat and learn a lot more while sailing that boat. Then depending upon how your sailing life goes, you may wish to then build a boat.

On the second part - routing - I'd suggest you pick up a copy of Jimmy Cornell's World Cruising Routes. There are several ways to get a copy.

Also you should download the free Pilot Charts from

Maritime Safety Information

msi.nga.mil

Although they have stopped updating these - sadly - they contain over a century of historical data of weather and much more. It will take you a fair bit of time to digest these charts and begin to understand just how data rich they are.

You will want to subscribe to Noonsite. While there is a free access option, you really want to have a paid access - it's very inexpensive, something like 2 or 3 dollars a month.

Now, as you begin planning your trip, I highly recommend John Harries web site, Attainable Adventures. You do have to pay for access but it is also very cheap to pick up a yearly subscription. You might be able to get a month access, but I'd recommend getting at least a year subscription as there is so much information there on ocean cruising that you need more than just a one month subscription.

Attainable Adventure Cruising

Reference and technical site for offshore voyaging and cruising in sail and motorboats.

www.morganscloud.com

Once you have read through a fair bit of the above, then come back with more questions.

dj

 

[rgranger]

So 20K canadian is about 15K US. I don't see how you can outfit new sails and electronics AND buy/build a boat in that range.

But I don't want to squash your dreams. There are different types of boat markets and you need to understand each... so before we just dig in, lets trim the list down. How are you going to use the boat?

Some important things to consider.

1. Are you going to be able to look for good weather widows and mostly be tucked away safe during storms?
2. Are you going to live on the boat when in port?
3. What sort of draft can you live with... deep draft = fewer ports of call available// deep draft = better stability and windward ability.

I would work up a list of preferences... both in the form of performance and accomodations.

Ask those questions here and you will get a lot of good first-hand advice. Once you know the type of boat you want, STUDY THE MARKET. There is an inflection point that happens in every used market. Below that inflection point you are saving money on the initial purchase but you will lose all of those savings (and time) fixing all of the broken and outdated equipment. For example a new set of sails for a 30'+ sailboat is easily $5K. AND above that inflection point, you are getting added value in the form of well kept equipment and a nicely outfitted boat and you are not paying for all of that new equipment.

 

[dLj]

@rgranger - he said $50k - not $20k. Just a fyi. Another point is if he wants to go from Vancouver to the South Pacific - it's impossible to have weather windows long enough to avoid bad weather. Being able to survive bad weather must be part of boat preparation. There is no route between those two generic locations that would allow sheltering from a storm through that entire trip.

dj

 

[CrispyCringle]

Buy a boat if you ever want to do this trip. A build will take a long long time.

 

[Phil]

Start by getting a copy of John Vigor's "20 Small Boats to Take You Anywhere". Odds are you can pick up one of the boats in reasonable shape for not much cash. Use the rest of your cash to get the boat in shape and outfitted.

Sail down the coast of North America from Vancouver to ~San Diego or even further south to learn the boat, fix what needs to be fixed, etc. Wait for the right weather window (early summer typically) then hop your way across the Pacific Ocean. Exact route will vary depending on how far south you go before taking off to cross the ocean. For example: San Diego to Hawaii is 20 to 30 days depending on what boat you buy. From there you can head south to French Polynesia and beyond. Hang out in each location long enough to enjoy it while waiting for the safest time of year to move on.

 

[PEBI]

Looks like you first posted over on Cruisers Forum, no?

Seems you have two very separate questions: 1) should you build your own boat for your budget? 2) Routing advice starting in Vancouver and running down into the South Pacific.

Two very different topics.

On the first question - I first have to ask when do you wish to begin the trip? If you want to begin sailing in a decade or so in the future then building a boat could be an option, but generally I would say that's a poor way to go at this point as you are not a seasoned sailor. Now you could build from plans (I don't know where to get them) for a Phil Bolger designed boat similar to what Annie Hill and Pete (don't remember his last name) did. I think the boat was called a Badger? Junk rigged - fairly easy to build and a seaworthy boat. But do expect to spend a serious amount of time building. It would be foolish to think you can design and build your own boat for such a trip.

But I think it's a better plan to buy a second hand boat and learn a lot more while sailing that boat. Then depending upon how your sailing life goes, you may wish to then build a boat.

On the second part - routing - I'd suggest you pick up a copy of Jimmy Cornell's World Cruising Routes. There are several ways to get a copy.

Also you should download the free Pilot Charts from

Maritime Safety Information

msi.nga.mil

Although they have stopped updating these - sadly - they contain over a century of historical data of weather and much more. It will take you a fair bit of time to digest these charts and begin to understand just how data rich they are.

You will want to subscribe to Noonsite. While there is a free access option, you really want to have a paid access - it's very inexpensive, something like 2 or 3 dollars a month.

Now, as you begin planning your trip, I highly recommend John Harries web site, Attainable Adventures. You do have to pay for access but it is also very cheap to pick up a yearly subscription. You might be able to get a month access, but I'd recommend getting at least a year subscription as there is so much information there on ocean cruising that you need more than just a one month subscription.

Attainable Adventure Cruising

Reference and technical site for offshore voyaging and cruising in sail and motorboats.

www.morganscloud.com

Once you have read through a fair bit of the above, then come back with more questions.

dj

So 20K canadian is about 15K US. I don't see how you can outfit new sails and electronics AND buy/build a boat in that range.

But I don't want to squash your dreams. There are different types of boat markets and you need to understand each... so before we just dig in, lets trim the list down. How are you going to use the boat?

Some important things to consider.

1. Are you going to be able to look for good weather widows and mostly be tucked away safe during storms?
2. Are you going to live on the boat when in port?
3. What sort of draft can you live with... deep draft = fewer ports of call available// deep draft = better stability and windward ability.

I would work up a list of preferences... both in the form of performance and accomodations.

Ask those questions here and you will get a lot of good first-hand advice. Once you know the type of boat you want, STUDY THE MARKET. There is an inflection point that happens in every used market. Below that inflection point you are saving money on the initial purchase but you will lose all of those savings (and time) fixing all of the broken and outdated equipment. For example a new set of sails for a 30'+ sailboat is easily $5K. AND above that inflection point, you are getting added value in the form of well kept equipment and a nicely outfitted boat and you are not paying for all of that new equipment.

@rgranger - he said $50k - not $20k. Just a fyi. Another point is if he wants to go from Vancouver to the South Pacific - it's impossible to have weather windows long enough to avoid bad weather. Being able to survive bad weather must be part of boat preparation. There is no route between those two generic locations that would allow sheltering from a storm through that entire trip.

dj

Thank you DLG and RGRANGER. I did read through Jimmy Cornell's World. Informative. British columbia and the pacific northwest to california. May to October. Brilliant. And well established routes to avoid reefs. Great.

Yeah I have no intention of sheltering. Unless it's to restock supplies.

Granger: yes I want good righting movement so I don't stay 180 degree's pitch poled swept upside down from port to starboard.

DLG: yes i did post on those forums, and one good reply. And I posted on Anarchy forums as well. But there I got a lot of armchair responses. Frustrating. Learn to ride the bike (sail) then build/buy on experience. I know how to sail. I haven't circumnavigated the globe but I i do have some experience.

Or " I really don't think you want to accomplish around the globe in the south pacific what few have done already. They did it so you don't have to."

Just found this article on the badger

Thanks Phil. I have looked at classfides of the Catalina 27,Flicka 20, Vega 27, Contessa, and westsail 32. Nice to see them in the book. Thanks.

 

[dlochner]

At 55°S you are sailing in what most sailors consider is the Southern Ocean. It is not an area of the globe to be trifled with. The boat needs to be strong enough and capable enough to withstand days of gale force winds and mountainous seas. More importantly there is no where to hide when bad weather comes.

In terms of boat choices most production sailboats won't fit the bill, they won't have the strength nor storage to complete the trip safely. Boats from Pacific Seacraft, Shannon, Swan, Oyster, Valiant and others would be better choices, but they come at a price.


Do read John Kretschmer's Cape Horn to Starboard and Sailing a Serious Ocean: Sailboats, Storms, Stories and Lessons Learned from 30 Years at Sea. John is one of the most skilled ocean cruisers in the world. Also consider James Evenson's Be the Captain for more lessons learned at sea.

Frankly, I don't think a $50K US budget, much less $50K CDN would be sufficient to acquire, outfit, and sail the Southern Ocean to be any where near adequate.

 

[jssailem]

WELCOME @PEBI . An ambitious project. Timing as far as looking to buy a boat is in your favor. Many are for sale. Most are not built for the adventure you are considering.

I would seek out information (YouTube, book and fee based consultation) from James Everson, Join Us on our circumnavigation of South America!
His book is well written, about the challenges (be them solo or with a crew) a captain faces when sailing off shore.

John Harries (Attainable Adventure Cruising), John Kretschmer, and Lin & Larry Pardee (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL32CAC8B7893D97F1) are excellent, knowledgeable sources regarding the subject of off shore sailing.

You state that you have a “HomeBuilt 35”. Is that a sail or motor boat? Identifying your location as SK in Canada suggests boating on lakes, not open water experience. James E has a video on the challenge one faces on an ocean. Solo sailing on an ocean is not like coastal sailing. It can play with your mind. The idea of sailing from BC to Mexico can be a beginning. Before you consider crossing an ocean I would consider sailing out onto the ocean and see if you can spend 7 days & nights beyond the sight of land.

There is always the option of flying to the South Pacific and buying your boat there. If you know what to look for (James E has been producing a number of YouTube videos on boats to sail) you might find a real deal. Boats are sailed to the islands and then abandoned. You might be able to find a boat that meets your needs.

There is a bit of value in a small well built boat, even on an open ocean. For one thing the size of the sails is manage able. Lin & Larry Pardee sailed together on their 24’4″ Seraffyn sailboat from California to the South Pacific. They coined the phrase, "Go Small, Go Simple, but Go Now“!

Share more of your idea and maybe we can help.

 

[Phil]

I honestly think that if you pick the right boat you can safely sail from Vancouver to New Zealand spending $50K US for the boat, refit, etc if you are conservative, capable of doing work yourself, and really smart with routing. You can pick up an Albin Vega, Folkboat, or Flicka for $10K to $20K. You can get this 1982 Victoria Frances for $28K assuming you pay the asking price. BTW...that's the boat I would go with having owned one. Bombproof little beast that sails fast for a 26 footer. Things you really need include: windvane self steering with spare parts, VHF with AIS receiver, plenty of water tankage, a few small solar panels, relatively new standing rigging with spare parts, storage for more water and food, good set of sails with storm sails, good anchor with sufficient chain and nylon rode, and a serious sense of adventure.

1982 Victoria Yachts LTD Frances 26 sailboat for sale in Florida

BTW...I spent $61K for my Annie in amazing condition. Sure I've dumped another ~$50K into her to make her absolutely posh, but I would feel comfortable sailing her almost anywhere. She could handle it even if I was puking on the side deck while she did so...that's already happened a few times.

 

[dlochner]

I honestly think that if you pick the right boat you can safely sail from Vancouver to New Zealand spending $50K US for the boat, refit, etc if you are conservative, capable of doing work yourself, and really smart with routing. You can pick up an Albin Vega, Folkboat, or Flicka for $10K to $20K. You can get this 1982 Victoria Frances for $28K assuming you pay the asking price. BTW...that's the boat I would go with having owned one. Bombproof little beast that sails fast for a 26 footer. Things you really need include: windvane self steering with spare parts, VHF with AIS receiver, plenty of water tankage, a few small solar panels, relatively new standing rigging with spare parts, storage for more water and food, good set of sails with storm sails, good anchor with sufficient chain and nylon rode, and a serious sense of adventure.

1982 Victoria Yachts LTD Frances 26 sailboat for sale in Florida

BTW...I spent $61K for my Annie in amazing condition. Sure I've dumped another ~$50K into her to make her absolutely posh, but I would feel comfortable sailing her almost anywhere. She could handle it even if I was puking on the side deck while she did so...that's already happened a few times.

Remember, the OP is Canadian and has $50K CDN which at today's exchange rate is about $35K US.

 

[Phil]

Remember, the OP is Canadian and has $50K CDN which at today's exchange rate is about $35K US.

Yep...he needs another ~$15K US and must be capable of doing a fair amount of work himself.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Here's an example of what you can find out there. This beauty is in Langkawi (near Malaysia) for $25,000usd. If you are looking for a well equipped ocean cruiser for cheap and you have the knowledge and will to put in the work, look where cruisers often change their plans, put their boats up for sale cheap, and fly home.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1988-bavaria-30-10249810/
The advantage here is that you're already on the other side of the largest, most unpredictable section of your circumnavigation. Learn the boat, learn ocean cruising, start where there are good facilities and cheap labor, then, by the time you've made it to the Atlantic ocean, ready for the trades to the Caribbean, you have thousands of miles behind you. After that, you take on the Pacific with well vetted skills and a boat you have absolute faith in.

Just a thought.

-Will

 

[Leeward Rail]

You are in Saskatchewan?
Have you actually sailed before ?
Crew ? Passenger ? Capt ?
If so, where and for how long ? Day trips ? Multiple weeks ?
Why do you think that sailing on the ocean for weeks, is something you would want to do ?

I have seen many sailboats purchased by people with dreams that aren't based on reality. The boat gets sold and they wasted money and time.

Learn to sail, go crew. Once you learn what the reality is... then consider getting a boat, if you still want to do it.

 

[PEBI]

Thanks Jssailem: I added em from amazon. Look forward to reading them.

That is a really good find Phil. Thanks. Researching the boat now. But from what I can tell looks like a solid pick.
It doesn't have much in terms fresh water tanks. Could I add water ballast near keel inside boat or just buy mineral water bottles.

Interesting find Will. But it has a spade rudder, and I worry about clipping the spade rudder with bull kelp in the south pacific.



Lee: Yes. I am open water certified diver too. sea, lake, rivers. I have never sailed in the south pacific.

Either I build or I buy. It looks like maybe buying would be better idea. But I want to be absolutely sure I've thought everything threw.

I read Kenichi Horie book some time ago. And he said he picked the plans for his 19 foot sailboat (that crossed the pacific) because it had good
self righting.

Also I intend to sail single handed (solo). The whole trip.

 

[jssailem]

Thanks for submitting a reply. Sometimes new members post then disappear.

Since SOLO is the plan. Suggest your add this sight to your data bank. https://sfbaysss.org/resources/#books
Specifically their free book :
Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing
by Andy Evans

This text should be mandatory reading for anyone thinking about sailing solo on an open ocean. The psychology of sailing solo in an open ocean is dicussed. I have not yet sailed solo across an ocean. I have met and discussed the experience with several who have. They all have commented on the moment in their crossing when they felt they were not alone on the boat.

 

[PEBI]

Thanks for submitting a reply. Sometimes new members post then disappear.

Since SOLO is the plan. Suggest your add this sight to your data bank. https://sfbaysss.org/resources/#books
Specifically their free book :
Thoughts, Tips, Techniques & Tactics for Singlehanded Sailing
by Andy Evans

This text should be mandatory reading for anyone thinking about sailing solo on an open ocean. The psychology of sailing solo in an open ocean is dicussed. I have not yet sailed solo across an ocean. I have met and discussed the experience with several who have. They all have commented on the moment in their crossing when they felt they were not alone on the boat.

PEBI is an acronym for a intelectual learning disability I have. I've been mocked a lot that I could not possibly circumnavigate the south globe single handed myself without help. And yes I have been told I have a 40 to 50% of dying in ther roaring 50s but I don't care. I'm sick and tired of being treated like a second hand citizen. And I'm going to prove it by accomplishing this mission I've set out to do. Doing it without help and depending on myself will be paramount to my future. What I've seen is I can do this if I plan it out carefully. But I don't intend on spending 10 years planning out every detail. Or leaving for it right away either. The only mistakes I want to make are from fatigue or getting washed off before I can tie myself down.


There the psychology of "you're" serrounded by people and get tired, so you seek out seclusion. Then there's the opposite. Then there's the personalty that doesn't think about the human interaction s/he interacts with and goes out sailing for months and feels the insecurity of no human interaction. Then there are a few sailors who really push themselves to race and lose a lot of sleep. I'm not racing. It looks more and more likely that if I buy a boat it will travel likely at 4 to 5 knots.

I'm not worried about psychology of lonelyness or keeping routines.Maybe sleep deprivation sure. I would be more worried about not getting hemeroids sitting on a hard surface with tiller in hand freezing for hours in an full immersion suite while sailing through 60 foot waves.

My goal right now is feasability and planning. So I don't go over budget. I don't want to get myself killed in the south pacific. I want to accomplish this that few have done before. 18,000 nm in cold water. Yep. Later in my life I can island hop like everyone else does. And no doubt if I live to tell the tale I'll get better job prospects too.

Reading books about sail boat building has answered a lot of my questions. But still there are some that still unanswered for me. Like adding a water line into an existing hull to use a reverse osmosis water maker. I emailed several manufacturers and they tell me they don't know anything about adding mineral salts. If you drink water such as.. Then it leeches vitamins and minerals into urine. Not what I want. And these systems are pricey. Rain water is similiar. I suppose I could just buy a Brita filter and filter out the rain water traps and add mineral salts to daily drinking water.

 

[Will Gilmore]

You have a goal, I find that when one expresses their goal early in their preparation process, others immediately point out how you aren't prepared for that. It's frustrating, to say the least, and it is important to understand that others can't possibly know the story behind the words. Every goal starts at the beginning and many beginnings start with basic feasibility research. That sounds like what you are doing. Listen, evaluate, ask questions, listen and evaluate, but you don't have to take on the doubt that those cautionary negative comments offer. They don't know you, they don't know your situation, they don't know your history. Mostly, they're just expressing concern, in their own way.

You have to ask that first question, no matter how ignorant it may sound.

-Will

 

[rgranger]

I've been mocked a lot that I could not possibly circumnavigate the south globe single handed myself without help.

The difference between a wish and a goal is a plan with achievable steps along the way. It sounds like you already have that plan, which puts you well on your way to success.