While motoring out of my marina (Tahoe Keys, Lake Tahoe) we heard sirens and observed a rescue helicopter circling an area near an older 28' sloop about a 1/4 mile from our harbor entrance. Our correct assumption was that someone was in the water so we informed CG and rescue personel that we would be available to aid in the search. We were given some general information of the last known location of the missing person and we proceeded to search. We establised voice contact with the vessel that had lost it's captain and there were three aboard. A couple in their 30's and a young boy of around 12. It became apparent that they were not familiar with the operation of the boat and needed assistance. I transfered my best crewman to their vessel and we continued to search until dark. The man was not recovered. Hindsight is always 20/20 but here are some observations. 1. The man was not wearing a PFD. We had 18 - 20 knts of wind last night and the waters of Lake Tahoe are dangerously cold. 2. The man was already underwater when the passengers threw flotation into the water. They did not know immediatly were the flotation was stowed. 3. The man's daughter jumped in after him and it is only pure luck that she was not lost as well. Her husband was able to pull her back over the side by himself, a feat. There was no ladder on board. 4. The vessel did not have a marine radio and communications were very difficult. 5. Upon returning to the dock it was obvious that this boat had no buisness being on the water. The group had come across the boat for free on "Craigslist" and were just learning how to sail. The sails and rigging were a useless mess and I'm certain contributed to this drowning. The man was trying to lash the clew of the mainsail when he went overboard. Nobody likes an armchair quarterback but I was completely shocked at how the authorities conducted the search. We radioed several times for some direction as to were we should be looking and were never given any direction. When we came upon the vessel in distress the man's daughter was close to hypothermic from being in the water. She was on the bow of a pitching sailboat standing on a pile of sailcloth without a PFD ?!?!?! We were flabberghasted that the authorities did not put someone on their vessel to secure it. A graphic reminder that you truly are on your own even when you are in a lake less that 500 yards from the beach. My crew sometimes refer to me as Capt. Bligh because of how seriously I take things on my boat. They all know how to operate the boat. They all know what to do if someone goes over. They all know where the PFD's and the throwables are. They all know how to operate the VHF. I'd like to give credit here to my 1st Mate Val Viegener for taking control of the situation on board the 28' sloop, "Airwaves". I would not hesitate to brave the fridged water to render assistance but "true courage" was stepping on board that boat where a daughter had just lost a father, a grandson had lost his grandfather and a man was trying to console his family. At dusk we were ordered in by the Coast Guard and this poor woman had to leave her dad "out there". West Marine has auto inflating PFD's on sale right now for $180 for two. I just bought 4. Tim Cobb "SeaDog" Tahoe Keys, Lake Tahoe
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consider the environment
I'm sure Lake Tahoe, in spite of its size, doesn't have the wealth of seamanship in its history that coastal places like the Chesapeake or Long Island Sound have. It's regrettable but perhaps understandable that the emergency responders were inexperienced in boating-related issues, or that the family didn't realize there would be issues in learning to use a sailboat (modern sloops aren't, strictly speaking, designed for that environment); without a tidal ocean to teach the hard lessons every day, most residents of the region are probably accustomed to boating being a safe and controlled experience on calm waters. You'll have to be a font of wisdom for your neighbors in a place where few have experienced the power or danger of angry water...
I'm sure Lake Tahoe, in spite of its size, doesn't have the wealth of seamanship in its history that coastal places like the Chesapeake or Long Island Sound have. It's regrettable but perhaps understandable that the emergency responders were inexperienced in boating-related issues, or that the family didn't realize there would be issues in learning to use a sailboat (modern sloops aren't, strictly speaking, designed for that environment); without a tidal ocean to teach the hard lessons every day, most residents of the region are probably accustomed to boating being a safe and controlled experience on calm waters. You'll have to be a font of wisdom for your neighbors in a place where few have experienced the power or danger of angry water...
Very sobering observations
Very sobering and realistic telling of this sad episode. I won't comment any further as it might sound patronizing to those who've lost loved ones. I'm afraid that with a major upcoming holiday weekend in which many will be on the water, we'll probably see amble evidence of others who aren't any more prepared than these sad victims.
Very sobering and realistic telling of this sad episode. I won't comment any further as it might sound patronizing to those who've lost loved ones. I'm afraid that with a major upcoming holiday weekend in which many will be on the water, we'll probably see amble evidence of others who aren't any more prepared than these sad victims.
Kudos
A very sad situation, and you and your crew deserve much credit for your efforts. You did after all rescue 3 people in a very dangerous situation. I am appalled at the poor coordination and operation of the rescue folks; my experience is that they are very knowledgeable in our area, but as someone else pointed out, in Long Island we are used to living with the sea and with rough conditions. I always felt that one of the main reasons sailors were generally safer than powerboaters (other than speed) was the fact that many powerboaters think boating is the same as driving a car. Its hard to have that illusion on a sailboat, but it sounds like these people did. It also calls to mind the fact that I need top remain fanatical about briefing everyone aboard about what to do, having numerous throwable floatation devices sitting at hand and wearing a PFD outside the cockpit or in rough weather or soloing. Your posting will make me think even harder about the lessons.
A very sad situation, and you and your crew deserve much credit for your efforts. You did after all rescue 3 people in a very dangerous situation. I am appalled at the poor coordination and operation of the rescue folks; my experience is that they are very knowledgeable in our area, but as someone else pointed out, in Long Island we are used to living with the sea and with rough conditions. I always felt that one of the main reasons sailors were generally safer than powerboaters (other than speed) was the fact that many powerboaters think boating is the same as driving a car. Its hard to have that illusion on a sailboat, but it sounds like these people did. It also calls to mind the fact that I need top remain fanatical about briefing everyone aboard about what to do, having numerous throwable floatation devices sitting at hand and wearing a PFD outside the cockpit or in rough weather or soloing. Your posting will make me think even harder about the lessons.
Bragging Bligh
I have a friend with a house in the Keys, he is a fire captain and they make expert rescues all the time, successfully. If you think you can get a weakend individual up a boat ladder, you are quite wrong. A PFD should always be worn by children, inexperienced crew and all that cannot swim always. People do NOT drown, 90% die of exposure, hypothermia, and a PFD from West Marine or the moon will not do it, but a wet suit or a survival suit will, and I would never sailin Lake Tahoe without a wet suit or up north for that matter either. Patting yourself on the back and declaring yourself a 'hero' is fine, and you followed the law of the sea by looking, but to criticize fine people who risk their lives for ours is quite out of bounds. Do you tow and inflatable? Have one on deck ready for an emergency? No, thought not, this is the very best way I have found of saving someone's life.Get them into the inflatable, then on into the mother ship. It's a divers thing, very practical.
I have a friend with a house in the Keys, he is a fire captain and they make expert rescues all the time, successfully. If you think you can get a weakend individual up a boat ladder, you are quite wrong. A PFD should always be worn by children, inexperienced crew and all that cannot swim always. People do NOT drown, 90% die of exposure, hypothermia, and a PFD from West Marine or the moon will not do it, but a wet suit or a survival suit will, and I would never sailin Lake Tahoe without a wet suit or up north for that matter either. Patting yourself on the back and declaring yourself a 'hero' is fine, and you followed the law of the sea by looking, but to criticize fine people who risk their lives for ours is quite out of bounds. Do you tow and inflatable? Have one on deck ready for an emergency? No, thought not, this is the very best way I have found of saving someone's life.Get them into the inflatable, then on into the mother ship. It's a divers thing, very practical.
What a lame comment Blackjack
It did not sound like bragging to me and your comments were out of line. There is nothing wrong with critisism. Those of us with open minds learn from it. As far as your comment about wet suits goes, that is just bogus. I sail in the PNW and my wet suit is on board in my ditch bag. Are you suggesting that we should all be wearing them?
It did not sound like bragging to me and your comments were out of line. There is nothing wrong with critisism. Those of us with open minds learn from it. As far as your comment about wet suits goes, that is just bogus. I sail in the PNW and my wet suit is on board in my ditch bag. Are you suggesting that we should all be wearing them?
The same everywhere
Call it what you will, but lack of knowldege, is the biggest cause of death in our sport. These people can be seen almost any day, at any location. There is no law against being stupid, being unprepared, or doing dumb things on a boat. We can bitch about it, we can laugh at them, but there isn't a darn thing we can do about it. No laws will be passed against stupidity, because the politicians would all be out of a job. And they wouldn't do any good anyway.
Call it what you will, but lack of knowldege, is the biggest cause of death in our sport. These people can be seen almost any day, at any location. There is no law against being stupid, being unprepared, or doing dumb things on a boat. We can bitch about it, we can laugh at them, but there isn't a darn thing we can do about it. No laws will be passed against stupidity, because the politicians would all be out of a job. And they wouldn't do any good anyway.
What?
My crew and I had a very useful discussion in the hours following the tragedy last night. My post here was simply to get everyone to think about the unthinkable. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was bragging. It was not my intentions. Afterall, what is there to brag about in a situation that ends in tragedy? I agree that the emergency services in our area do a commendable job. That being said, they failed to secure the remaining passengers of the vessel "airwaves" and that was unacceptable. "Flabberghasted" is the only word to describe the combined reaction of my crew and I to seeing the victims daughter standing on a piled up jib on the bouncing bow of this sailboat without a PFD. My crew is one of the more experienced in the area and I would never allow even my best on the bow in those conditions without a PFD. This boat did not even have lifelines and she was hanging over the bow pulpit screaming. I will stand by my original critisism. A PFD would have saved this gentlemans life without question. We were on the scene less than 15 minutes after he went in. When someone hits 40 degree water they gasp. Gasp with you head underwater and your lungs fill and you sink like a stone. Even if you are unconscious from hypothermia a PFD will keep you visible at the surface.
My crew and I had a very useful discussion in the hours following the tragedy last night. My post here was simply to get everyone to think about the unthinkable. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was bragging. It was not my intentions. Afterall, what is there to brag about in a situation that ends in tragedy? I agree that the emergency services in our area do a commendable job. That being said, they failed to secure the remaining passengers of the vessel "airwaves" and that was unacceptable. "Flabberghasted" is the only word to describe the combined reaction of my crew and I to seeing the victims daughter standing on a piled up jib on the bouncing bow of this sailboat without a PFD. My crew is one of the more experienced in the area and I would never allow even my best on the bow in those conditions without a PFD. This boat did not even have lifelines and she was hanging over the bow pulpit screaming. I will stand by my original critisism. A PFD would have saved this gentlemans life without question. We were on the scene less than 15 minutes after he went in. When someone hits 40 degree water they gasp. Gasp with you head underwater and your lungs fill and you sink like a stone. Even if you are unconscious from hypothermia a PFD will keep you visible at the surface.
Hmmmm,
"Call it what you will, but lack of knowldege, is the biggest cause of death in our sport." I thought it was alcohol.
"Call it what you will, but lack of knowldege, is the biggest cause of death in our sport." I thought it was alcohol.
Thanks Tim. We all needed to hear this.
Even the most experienced amoung us needs to be reminded of how easy it is to get in trouble, and the simple things we should remember. Thanks.
Even the most experienced amoung us needs to be reminded of how easy it is to get in trouble, and the simple things we should remember. Thanks.
Good Job Tim!
Not only can it get pretty windy on Lake Tahoe, but gusty as well as the winds whip down off the Sierras. Putting your best crew on board was a good idea and being that she was a woman was good to because they tend to be more 'personal' than guys. We tend to deal with 'things' where as she was probably more able to deal with the grief on board. The emergency responders probably are poorly prepared for these actions as there aren't that many boats on Lake Tahoe and also, this is early in the season. It's still quite cold and the summer crowds haven't hit the area. The seasonality of Tahoe probably adds to the lack of practice responders would get in a warmer climate. The comment about wearing a wet suit to go sailing on the lake would be good for a Hobie but for a boat with a cabin and cockpit it is overkill. Wetsuits are very hard to put on and make you cumbersome. Putting mine on take quite a long time as I try to squeeze into it. Moving around is awkward. To be reasonably protected you'd need the head piece, gloves, and the foot pieces. Sorry, but I don't see myself or anyone else out there on their boat in a wet suit. The good thing about wearing a PFD is, at the very least, you'd be at the water's surface. A chopper flying overhead would more easily spot a person in the water. Automatic inflatable life vests are a good idea. People are more likely to be convinced to wear something a little more high-tech. Your story had a very, very sad ending. I can't imagine the grief of the family members on board and thank goodness the husband of the daughter was able to get her on board. A ladder may not be the total answer but it sure beats the option of not having one! Thanks for sharing your experience
Not only can it get pretty windy on Lake Tahoe, but gusty as well as the winds whip down off the Sierras. Putting your best crew on board was a good idea and being that she was a woman was good to because they tend to be more 'personal' than guys. We tend to deal with 'things' where as she was probably more able to deal with the grief on board. The emergency responders probably are poorly prepared for these actions as there aren't that many boats on Lake Tahoe and also, this is early in the season. It's still quite cold and the summer crowds haven't hit the area. The seasonality of Tahoe probably adds to the lack of practice responders would get in a warmer climate. The comment about wearing a wet suit to go sailing on the lake would be good for a Hobie but for a boat with a cabin and cockpit it is overkill. Wetsuits are very hard to put on and make you cumbersome. Putting mine on take quite a long time as I try to squeeze into it. Moving around is awkward. To be reasonably protected you'd need the head piece, gloves, and the foot pieces. Sorry, but I don't see myself or anyone else out there on their boat in a wet suit. The good thing about wearing a PFD is, at the very least, you'd be at the water's surface. A chopper flying overhead would more easily spot a person in the water. Automatic inflatable life vests are a good idea. People are more likely to be convinced to wear something a little more high-tech. Your story had a very, very sad ending. I can't imagine the grief of the family members on board and thank goodness the husband of the daughter was able to get her on board. A ladder may not be the total answer but it sure beats the option of not having one! Thanks for sharing your experience
Thanks Tim I have sailed Tahoe in a Capri 16..
30-35 knott winds and 6-7foot wind waves by Skunk Harbor...most frightening experience in my life. I had my wife, son, and self with life vest on and a radio. Hug the coast on the way back to S.Lake Tahoe just in case we sank..we were close to the shore. Lake patrol passed by us didn't ask to see if we needed help...I assume he was going to help some one in real need. In hind sight maybe we should just have tied up on someones docks as an emergency or grounded the little boat. Took 4-5 hrs to travel 11 miles...Thanked GOD we made it back alive. Live and learn. As to Black Jack...little rough on your comments wouldn't you say? abe
30-35 knott winds and 6-7foot wind waves by Skunk Harbor...most frightening experience in my life. I had my wife, son, and self with life vest on and a radio. Hug the coast on the way back to S.Lake Tahoe just in case we sank..we were close to the shore. Lake patrol passed by us didn't ask to see if we needed help...I assume he was going to help some one in real need. In hind sight maybe we should just have tied up on someones docks as an emergency or grounded the little boat. Took 4-5 hrs to travel 11 miles...Thanked GOD we made it back alive. Live and learn. As to Black Jack...little rough on your comments wouldn't you say? abe
Well done Captain Bligh
As an instructor for a national boating club , I teach all new members ,experienced or not ,the basic saftey items you teach your crew. I can't stress enough the importance of PFD's . When teaching the on the water portion , I always wear my inflatable . Just yesterday when teaching on Salem sound we came upon a overturned hobie cat with two young men on board . My students got a real life lesson on rescue.The men did not have pfd's and were very cold . The Salem harbor master responded within 10 mins. and all was well. Please captain Bligh continue your efforts , the public needs it . Captain Ed
As an instructor for a national boating club , I teach all new members ,experienced or not ,the basic saftey items you teach your crew. I can't stress enough the importance of PFD's . When teaching the on the water portion , I always wear my inflatable . Just yesterday when teaching on Salem sound we came upon a overturned hobie cat with two young men on board . My students got a real life lesson on rescue.The men did not have pfd's and were very cold . The Salem harbor master responded within 10 mins. and all was well. Please captain Bligh continue your efforts , the public needs it . Captain Ed
I only see.....
I only see one braggard and one know-it-all, thats Blackjack. Pretty lame to be picking on Tim. Please show me the newspaper articles that you have accumulated in your rescue work. Its amazing how someone over 2,000 miles away knows more about the resue effort than the man who was there. Cant wait to see your bill from the Psychic Hotline. Tony B
I only see one braggard and one know-it-all, thats Blackjack. Pretty lame to be picking on Tim. Please show me the newspaper articles that you have accumulated in your rescue work. Its amazing how someone over 2,000 miles away knows more about the resue effort than the man who was there. Cant wait to see your bill from the Psychic Hotline. Tony B
Inflatable as rescue craft
Black Jack's notion of an inflatable as a suitable rescue craft seems to me to be fundamentally wrong. Normally you are not sailing with a vast crew, and you are most likely to lose someone in rough weather. The idea of launching an inflatable in bad weather to do a rescue is absurd. You are already one crew member short. Do you put one or two more in the inflatable? How do you rescue them? It takes some time to launch it and is not easy in strong winds. And getting a weakened person aboard an inflatable is no easy task either. And once they are there, how do you get them on the big boat? All of this is one of the reasons I really like an open transom -- while it is still very difficult to get someone aboard, with the ladder and an open transom, you don't have to get him very high to get him on board. And we carry lots of flotation devices, out in the cockpit, ready to toss, and a Lifesling. Its still best to stay on board.
Black Jack's notion of an inflatable as a suitable rescue craft seems to me to be fundamentally wrong. Normally you are not sailing with a vast crew, and you are most likely to lose someone in rough weather. The idea of launching an inflatable in bad weather to do a rescue is absurd. You are already one crew member short. Do you put one or two more in the inflatable? How do you rescue them? It takes some time to launch it and is not easy in strong winds. And getting a weakened person aboard an inflatable is no easy task either. And once they are there, how do you get them on the big boat? All of this is one of the reasons I really like an open transom -- while it is still very difficult to get someone aboard, with the ladder and an open transom, you don't have to get him very high to get him on board. And we carry lots of flotation devices, out in the cockpit, ready to toss, and a Lifesling. Its still best to stay on board.
Black Jack
Just exactly where did you see any " bragging " in that story. I thought the facts were presented as they happened. Credit was directed at a crew member, who probably deserved it. Have we gotten to the point on this board, where we take a slap at someone who tries to help. Maybe you would have done it differently, but you weren't there. Maybe I would have done things differently, but I wasn't there. Unless you are on the spot, and know the circumstances, it's terribly hard to make any kind of a judgment call. And just plain terrible to take a shot at anyone who is doing whatever they can do to help. From what was described, seems to me that Tim did all he could do, and did it pretty well, given the circumstances. He and his crew risked theirselves and the boat to help. But even if he did something not by the book, he was there, he assisted and did the best he could. That, IMHO deserves nothing but praise.
Just exactly where did you see any " bragging " in that story. I thought the facts were presented as they happened. Credit was directed at a crew member, who probably deserved it. Have we gotten to the point on this board, where we take a slap at someone who tries to help. Maybe you would have done it differently, but you weren't there. Maybe I would have done things differently, but I wasn't there. Unless you are on the spot, and know the circumstances, it's terribly hard to make any kind of a judgment call. And just plain terrible to take a shot at anyone who is doing whatever they can do to help. From what was described, seems to me that Tim did all he could do, and did it pretty well, given the circumstances. He and his crew risked theirselves and the boat to help. But even if he did something not by the book, he was there, he assisted and did the best he could. That, IMHO deserves nothing but praise.
Kudos to Tim
And a big rasberry to BlackJack. I've made the decision this year to require everybody onboard to wear PFD's at all times when away from the dock. The inflatables aren't too uncomfortable and there are way too many people falling off boats these days.
And a big rasberry to BlackJack. I've made the decision this year to require everybody onboard to wear PFD's at all times when away from the dock. The inflatables aren't too uncomfortable and there are way too many people falling off boats these days.
Avoid being a blowhard
I'd echo what others have said about Tim offering useful, practical observations from a tragic situation. Let's take it in the vein it was offered -- a lesson for each of us no matter what our experience level. As for Black Jack, sounding like a blowhard offers nothing and, frankly, one could say you come across as foolish and immature. Thanks again, Tim, for your insight and willingness to share with our community.
I'd echo what others have said about Tim offering useful, practical observations from a tragic situation. Let's take it in the vein it was offered -- a lesson for each of us no matter what our experience level. As for Black Jack, sounding like a blowhard offers nothing and, frankly, one could say you come across as foolish and immature. Thanks again, Tim, for your insight and willingness to share with our community.
Well I think Blackjack has been properly spanked
What say we send him to bed without supper unless he wants to apologize to Capt. Bligh before he runs off. By the way the real Capt. Bligh did not deserve all the static he got either. If I were ever set off in a long boat by a mutinous crew, I would sure want to have the real Capt Bligh on board. Failing that I may settle for Tim, but Blackjack need not apply. Now say you're sorry for offending the nice man and run along before you get smacked again.
What say we send him to bed without supper unless he wants to apologize to Capt. Bligh before he runs off. By the way the real Capt. Bligh did not deserve all the static he got either. If I were ever set off in a long boat by a mutinous crew, I would sure want to have the real Capt Bligh on board. Failing that I may settle for Tim, but Blackjack need not apply. Now say you're sorry for offending the nice man and run along before you get smacked again.
Thank you all.............
...for sticking up for me but most of the time guys like Black Jack "speak" for themselves. I'll keep my eyes open for a guy sailing a keelboat with a wetsuit and towing an inflatable while wearing a firemans hat and I'll steer clear. They found the man's body today less than 200 yrds from the channel in 12 feet of water. The witnesses said that once he was in the water he did'nt even move. He made no attempt to swim to the PFD. This is someone who was described as being "impervious" to the cold. He was an expert swimmer and a certified scuba diver. Friends were quoted as being amazed that he did'nt just "swim in" to the shore. I really graphic reminder of how quickly 42 degree water can turn your muscles into stone. There is a possibility that the man had a heart attack when he hit the water. Tim
...for sticking up for me but most of the time guys like Black Jack "speak" for themselves. I'll keep my eyes open for a guy sailing a keelboat with a wetsuit and towing an inflatable while wearing a firemans hat and I'll steer clear. They found the man's body today less than 200 yrds from the channel in 12 feet of water. The witnesses said that once he was in the water he did'nt even move. He made no attempt to swim to the PFD. This is someone who was described as being "impervious" to the cold. He was an expert swimmer and a certified scuba diver. Friends were quoted as being amazed that he did'nt just "swim in" to the shore. I really graphic reminder of how quickly 42 degree water can turn your muscles into stone. There is a possibility that the man had a heart attack when he hit the water. Tim
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