Solar wiring question

[JP]

I am replacing a broken solar panel and adding a new Victron 75/10 controller.

I have traced the original/existing wiring back to a charge controller that is wired directly to my battery selector switch. (1,2 ,all, or off).
It would seem to be pretty simple to replace the old with the new and run the new wiring to the battery selector switch.
Is this the best way to go? Or should run the wires back to the house bank?
Also if I go straight to the battery selector switch will I have to always leave the battery selector on when I leave the boat to charge/maintain the batteries?

I have 2 group 27 house batteries wet, and 1 starting battery.

I purchased a kit that included the panel, controller, circuit breaker switch and battery sensor dongle

Thanks

JP

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wouldn't it depend on where it is connected and to which posts on the switch?

 

[jlp0217]

Depends on which post of the switch it goes to. If it goes to the one or 2 posts, then it will charge battery 1 or 2 respectively, the same as if wired directly to one of those batteries. If it goes to the common post, it will only charge the battery(s) switched on.

 

[leo310]

What I have done is used a Victron Argo FET Battery Isolators that connects both house and starter batteries but they don't see each other. Yes it did cost some boat bucks but then I don't have to worry about which bank the solar panels are charging.

 

[JP]

I am looking at the #2 post which is the house bank. 1 being the starter.
Does that sound like the best way to go?
Or is it an advantage to go straight to the house batteries?
Am I correct in thinking that if I switch to all the panel will charge the house and starting battery, assuming I connect to the #2 post.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I am looking at the #2 post which is the house bank. 1 being the starter.
Does that sound like the best way to go?
Or is it an advantage to go straight to the house batteries?
Am I correct in thinking that if I switch to all the panel will charge the house and starting battery, assuming I connect to the #2 post.
View attachment 193814

It would be odd that the starter would be on the same post as a battery bank, it is usually on the C post.

Then there's this:

Installing Battery Selector Switches (the "posts" in the back don't physically match with the switch positions on the front) Batteries and a factory (?) mis-wired battery selector switch

 

[JP]

Thank you Sir
I am going to try and follow the battery wires back this afternoon
I will admit I have not fully understood the battery/ selector system.
Thanks for the links as well

JP

 

[DArcy]

I'm in the process of re-wiring my DC distribution, including the solar panels. I put together this diagram of how I'm wiring it. My solar panel MPPT controller goes to an always on bus bar which is connected to position 1 on the switch. This is similar to your setup but allows more things to be connected to the always on side of the house batteries. Just make sure the solar panel connection is fused appropriately. I have an ACR (Automatic Charge Relay, black box below the 1/2/Both switch) which senses when there is a charge coming in (solar, alternator, AC charger) and connects to the start battery automatically to charge it.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thank you Sir
I am going to try and follow the battery wires back this afternoon
I will admit I have not fully understood the battery/ selector system.
Thanks for the links as well

JP

D'arcy's diagram is excellent and shows a really good way to "show" the connections at the switch and where they come from and go to. Follow the electrons.

Here are some basics for you JR: These come from my Electrical Systems 101 Electrical Systems 101 )

OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History Alternator/Batteries & "The Basic" 1-2-B Switch BEST Wiring Diagrams

1-2-B Considerations (New 2020 - Rod finally got around to diagramming what I had done in the above link in 2009 )
1/2/BOTH Switch Considerations

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings

This is a newer primer for boat system wiring design with a thorough diagram: Building a Good Foundation (October 2016)
Building a DC Electrical Foundation

 

[JP]

Thanks DArcy and Stu Jackson.
My current panel is connected to an always on bus like yours DArcy. I know this because the bilge pump is connected there also and it always has power. So a glimmer of understanding there for me. I have a 30 amp new breaker that came with the system so I will add it between the MPPT controller and the always on bus.

I tried to follow the positive battery wires back to the battery selector with little success.
The two house battery are connected with a short lead going from one + terminal to the other.
Then one Positive wire heads out behind the cabin liner towards the electrical panel.
Below the Nav table there is a battery charger (only used for shore power) and a battery combiner.
The battery combiner is labeled bat 1 bat 2. With one + battery lead seemingly coming from the bow and the other the stern.
House battery are foreword and starting battery is in the stern.
I am guessing bat 1 might be the house bank and bat 2 might be the starting battery.
To verify Stu statement that it would be odd to have the starting battery wired to the 2nd post on the battery selector,
I set the battery selector to bat 1 and the engine was ready to start. Same with position two. So I incorrectly assumed that 1 was house and 2 was starting battery. So as ling as the selector is on the engine has power.
So I still don't understand what bat 1 and bat 2 really refers to, especially since the house battery are connected with one + cable going foreword for 2 batteries.

So I am going to try to understand how the batteries are connected in relation to the battery selector switch. I admit to being guilty of running with the switch set to all. I don't really use any power sailing with the exception of an auto pilot at anchor I use solar lights for the cabin and as an anchor light. I keep a close eye on the battery village with a multi meter so has never drained the starting battery. But I think its high time to understand this system, so I have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks again Stu for all of the links, they should keep me busy after wick.

JP

 

[JP]

A visual reference.

JP

 

[DArcy]

First, you might want to get a new charger. That looks like one of the old school "dumb" chargers that are perfectly happy cooking batteries. On a budget I have found the Noco Genius chargers work very well but I just got a Sterling ProCharge which are supposed to be some of the best multi stage chargers.
Your system is likely set up to run house and starter off the common terminal of the 1/2/both switch. So having a "starter" battery is a bit of a misnomer. You have to manually switch to that battery when you want to use it. Leaving the switch on Both will charge and drain both together. My old boat was set up that way and I just switched to both when charging and #1 when using house loads. Then if I drained #1 at anchor I could start on #2.
In my diagram above, #2 setting on the 1/2/Both switch is only to allow starting the engine from the house bank, normally the switch is set to #1 and starting is through the other switch.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I know you have a lot of "homework" to do, but let me add these two, now that you said you have a combiner.

It also comes from the Elec Systems 101, which I encourage you to spend some time on. I know, "when you're resting!"

What are ACRs, Combiners & Echo Chargers? (by Maine Sail) [scroll to the top]
Battery Switch Question ? and Battery isolator / voltage regulator / batteries

Making Sense of Automatic Charging Relays (2019)
Making Sense of Automatic Charging Relays - Marine How To


And while you're at it, start drawing wiring diagrams, pictures won't cut it alone. It doesn't need to be perfect, but the diagrams you've been seeing, from Darcy and my links, should get you started.

Good luck. Soon you'll be starting to see the patterns. None of us was born an electrician, we all had to learn and on our boats start somewhere. All the best.

 

[leo310]

Looking at your pic I noticed that you have yellow and black wires on the pos post, black and yellow are used to identify ground wires. You may want to change them out. Also your 3 way switch you may want to install a bus bar for un-switch devices, your solar wire looks to be a 14 gauge you may want to go up to 10 gauge to reduce power loss. If you decide to do a wiring diagram mark switch an un-switch (pos) both will use common ground (neg) and what I found is to use bus bars that will make adding or changes easy. Now that said I'm in the middle of changing my bus bars out and using din rail terminal blocks to make it cleaner looking with wire tracks.

 

[JP]

Wow great information Stu, and I appreciate everyone's advice.
I think/hope I might be set up as Mainesail recommends.
I will need a few days to go thru all of the links so will be radio silent.
I have never gave any thought to what the combiner does until now.
I am on a bouy when the boat is in the water, hence the solar upgrade, I just removed the 30amp shore power cord from the boat because I never use it.
The new 110 watt Sun Power panel came with 10 gauge wire.

JP
1987 C-30 #5000